Wasps downward spiral... (8 Viewers)

[Grendel]

Life, mate....I'd love to while away the hours on SBT like many on here but with two kids under 4 and a new (ish) business to keep moving forward, I have less time to post. Still pop in now and then though!

Yep, that's a good point actually. Their offering appears to be dwindling with time...I'd assume apathy in the area is increasing whilst interest wanes and the success on the pitch hasn't materialised like they would've hoped.

I always thought that the relative success of their move, would be dependant on instant success which would then be built on. It's been pleasing to see that that couldn't be further from the truth.

In my business, I work with professional sports clubs. I've approached all relevant EPL, EFL, National League, FAWSL, FAW Championship, Rugby Premiership and Championship Rugby clubs with a view to working with them. Bar one. No prizes for guessing who.

The majority of the revenue is tied up with non Rugby business and the lease value I assume is accurate so its worth £60 million to Richardson - The rugby club costs are clearly a massive problem but I suppose they can to an extent be adjusted - there seems no correlation with crowds and success anyway - its a problem business but I cannot see the Holding Company moving anywhere

 

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[Skyblueweeman]

The majority of the revenue is tied up with non Rugby business and the lease value I assume is accurate so its worth £60 million to Richardson - The rugby club costs are clearly a massive problem but I suppose they can to an extent be adjusted - there seems no correlation with crowds and success anyway - its a problem business but I cannot see the Holding Company moving anywhere

That's fair. Doesn't stop me smiling when I see how they're doing/not doing.

 

[CCFC54321]

Should be enough to get him some freebies.

And a free kit….

 

[Fletch]

Trading in the bond has been cancelled at the request of Wasps Finance. Is this normal as the redemption date has passed. Until they are paid off, I’d have thought there was still a market for them, although potentially bond holders cashing in for what they can get. Not a good look though.

 

[SBAndy]

More than mild concern from bond holders on ADVFN. Could potentially see the bond default very soon by what I’m reading.

 

[chiefdave]

Trading in the bond has been cancelled at the request of Wasps Finance. Is this normal as the redemption date has passed. Until they are paid off, I’d have thought there was still a market for them, although potentially bond holders cashing in for what they can get. Not a good look though.

so if you've got bonds you haven't got your money back and you now can't sell them. I would laugh but I suspect a lot of the bonds are held by fans rather than investors who can't afford to potentially lose this money.

 

[oldfiver]

so if you've got bonds you haven't got your money back and you now can't sell them. I would laugh but I suspect a lot of the bonds are held by fans rather than investors who can't afford to potentially lose this money.

So the first three interest payments came directly from bondholders investment and now the final payment and investment monies not been paid

Hmmmm

 

[Philosoraptor]

There seems to be strife with the bondholders. Some look like they're getting ready to kick off.

 

[FulltimeWum]

Where are they complaining?

 

[Terry Gibson's perm]

I wouldn’t care if the investors lost everything greedy bastards.

 

[Philosoraptor]

Where are they complaining?

ADVFN

uk.advfn.com

 

[Philosoraptor]

I wouldn’t care if the investors lost everything greedy bastards.

Entertainment value is high in all this.

 

[Nick]

Telegraph should be all over it.

 

[Gynnsthetonic]

Telegraph should be all over it.

Bobby Bridge will put his spin on it somehow

 

[David O'Day]

Bobby Bridge will put his spin on it somehow

wasps allow investors to keep historic souvenirs

 

[Terry Gibson's perm]

Would be interesting to know how much they are borrowing maybe they are getting a bit more to help with running costs.

 

[Liquid Gold]

Imagine if it were Sisu swindling investors

 

[CCFC54321]

Bobby B will be on the hot line this afternoon to Richardson “if you give me another free kit and tickets I’ll in return write a lovely article in the Coventry telegraph about how you have looked after the bond holders and how you have sold 32,000 season tickets next season.”

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Wonder if this coincides with the increased visibility of Joy around the CBS. Just keeps popping up outside Richardson's window:

As I understand it they still refuse to meet in person

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Getting the insect poison ready for fumigation

 

[ccfcchris]

They are not going bust anytime soon, but I hope this is death by a thousand cuts as a Coventry City fan.
It is the only way they should die.

 

[SBAndy]

Interest payments have now landed with bond holders so likelihood of default has been reduced. However, I think from reading that if the bond holders are not repaid within 30 days of the maturity date that could be considered a default - wouldn’t expect anything to come of it.

 

[duffer]

They are not going bust anytime soon, but I hope this is death by a thousand cuts as a Coventry City fan.
It is the only way they should die.

Bitter.

I like it.

 

[Gynnsthetonic]

They are not going bust anytime soon, but I hope this is death by a thousand cuts as a Coventry City fan.
It is the only way they should die.

I just can't see how they can last, they're losing in the region of 10m a year with 4k-5k paying spectators, their London based fans can't be bothered anymore and over the years that fanbase will just dwindle.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Interest payments have now landed with bond holders so likelihood of default has been reduced. However, I think from reading that if the bond holders are not repaid within 30 days of the maturity date that could be considered a default - wouldn’t expect anything to come of it.

Some of the comments suggest they were using some of the bond money itself to pay off the interest payments in the meantime. I’m reminded of the quote in Trainspotting

‘We can’t even find a decent civilisation to be colonised by’

 

[duffer]

so if you've got bonds you haven't got your money back and you now can't sell them. I would laugh but I suspect a lot of the bonds are held by fans rather than investors who can't afford to potentially lose this money.

Fair point. In fact if you divide it by their average attendance I think they're in the hole for a million apiece.

 

[Liquid Gold]

Best thing we can do to hurt them is just stay in the Championship.

Casual fans will come to us over them and our more embittered fans will forgive ownership issues for decent football.

They just haven't got the crowds here.

I bet if they could dump the arena to clear their debts and move to the Alexandra stadium they'd be up for it

 

[CCFCSteve]

I just can't see how they can last, they're losing in the region of 10m a year with 4k-5k paying spectators, their London based fans can't be bothered anymore and over the years that fanbase will just dwindle.

Agreed. Unless there’s some dramatic changes the model doesn’t appear to work. It’s all well and good owning a ground but if youre having to pay 6.5%* pa (£2m) just to service interest on the debt with dwindling crowds/match day income then you’re going to struggle. The only things I can think of that can help dig them out if this mess is external investment, large non sport events/gigs and sponsorship (not sure what CBS are paying ?)


*could increase in future

 

[chiefdave]

There's some suggestion on that ADVFN board that there will only be part payment in the near future with the rest promised at a later day. Surely that's not going to happen, the debt is due now you can't just say we'll pay it when we've got it!

Also questions on there around if they are trading insolently given they have had debts fall due which they are currently unable to pay.

 

[chiefdave]

Some of the comments suggest they were using some of the bond money itself to pay off the interest payments

Wasn't that even mentioned in the prospectus, something like there will be no problems paying the interest because we're borrowing the money for that and ring fencing it.

 

[Gynnsthetonic]

Best thing we can do to hurt them is just stay in the Championship.

Casual fans will come to us over them and our more embittered fans will forgive ownership issues for decent football.

They just haven't got the crowds here.

I bet if they could dump the arena to clear their debts and move to the Alexandra stadium they'd be up for it

Let's hope Birmingham Council will welcome them, could it not be that they are waiting until the end of the season (June 4th) until they decide what the future holds.

 

[duffer]

Let's hope Birmingham Council will welcome them, could it not be that they are waiting until the end of the season (June 4th) until they decide what the future holds.

The Birmingham thing hadn't even crossed my mind. It'd be progress of a kind I suppose, though they'd still be a bit too close for my liking and I'd much prefer they went back down south towards their genuine supporter base. (I notice that Brian O'Driscoll still calls them London Wasps!).

Anyhow, I remember one excuse for them pitching up here was that as a club they are 'nomadic'. Given that, technically shouldn't they have fecked off by now?

 

[oldfiver]

Bobby Bridge will put his spin on it somehow

Interest payments have been received by some

Best thing we can do to hurt them is just stay in the Championship.

Casual fans will come to us over them and our more embittered fans will forgive ownership issues for decent football.

They just haven't got the crowds here.

I bet if they could dump the arena to clear their debts and move to the Alexandra stadium they'd be up for it

 

[oldfiver]

Rumour has it they have - allegedly- talked to Birmingham CC !!

 

[oldfiver]

Some of the comments suggest they were using some of the bond money itself to pay off the interest payments in the meantime. I’m reminded of the quote in Trainspotting

‘We can’t even find a decent civilisation to be colonised by’

It is in the prospectus- first 3 interest payments retained from bond receipts