Wasps downward spiral... (25 Viewers)

[chiefdave]

Is it clear ? What makes you say that ? ….. perhaps nobody will confirm it because it’s not correct. Although im sure everyone will say im wrong

The history of this whole saga tells you that when stuff like this is rumoured and there's no denial, even if not official then through sympathetic media like Bridge, its likely true.

If the WMCA approach wasn't linked to refinancing the bond we'd have heard by now, the deafening silence says a lot. It follows a pattern.

Why do you think there's such a delay? Assume you don't think Vaughn has been outright lying so its clear there is an issue. Due dillegane in something like this should be quick, all the lenders need to know is the security offered covers the amount being loaned so it is highly likely that is the issue.

The requirement for significant maintenance has been an open secret for several years now as are Wasps financial issues and inability to pay for things themselves. Look at the work being done under the guise of the Commonwealth Games, why aren't Wasps paying? No other similar venue is being given millions.

Look at the training ground, went from state of the art new facility, to taking over the Higgs, to sharing with Old Leamingtonians to moving into an existing college facility miles away, clearly a cheap option and a long way from what was initially promised.

Sometimes if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck it is actually a duck.

 

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[Dubai-Dodger]

It wouldn’t directly of course that would be wrong! But if it made the refinancing possible it would amount to the same thing

whether it amounts to the same thing remains to be seen, I’m not in denial just waiting for a clear picture of what it’s for. If it’s for something completely genuinely unforeseen and out of their control then in my opinion its fine. If it’s a back door way of propping up the business then that’s not fine for me either. But it’s all IF’s.

 

[clint van damme]

whether it amounts to the same thing remains to be seen, I’m not in denial just waiting for a clear picture of what it’s for. If it’s for something completely genuinely unforeseen and out of their control then in my opinion its fine. If it’s a back door way of propping up the business then that’s not fine for me either. But it’s all IF’s.

whatever it's for it will contribute to the refinancing of the bond as even if it pays for something else that money can then be redirected to paying the bond holders, (if they do get paid).

 

[Dubai-Dodger]

shuggs

Have another guess

 

[Dubai-Dodger]

whatever it's for it will contribute to the refinancing of the bond as even if it pays for something else that money can then be redirected to paying the bond holders, (if they do get paid).

But if they haven’t got the money for the ‘something else’ then it’s not redirecting anything. Again speculation

 

[clint van damme]

But if they haven’t got the money for the ‘something else’ then it’s not redirecting anything. Again speculation

again, you are a crackpot, and one clearly in denial.

 

[mr_monkey]

But if they haven’t got the money for the ‘something else’ then it’s not redirecting anything. Again speculation

So if something unforseen comes up in the survey of my house when I remortgage soon I should go and get a grant from the council to fix it... Gotcha

 

[clint van damme]

So if something unforseen comes up in the survey of my house when I remortgage soon I should go and get a grant from the council to fix it... Gotcha

yeah, but if you say it's for something else it's OK.

 

[Grendel]

But if they haven’t got the money for the ‘something else’ then it’s not redirecting anything. Again speculation

in a court you consider what’s in front of you it’s not speculation it’s evidence and interpretation of it.

As I’ve said to you on the forum if you go outside and the pavement has puddles on it but the sun is shining you are likely to in your words speculate its been raining - it’s based off what you see. If you conclude a whale has found its way on the street and caused that but was removed in the 15 minutes that you were inside I’d suggest that’s very speculative

We know that the company is in severe financial strife - that’s evidenced

We know that the company has now reneged twice to go honour the payment as it has failed to get funding from its own admission multiple sources

we know that Vaughan has in numerous statements failed to be accurate and be very speculative in some claims such as without Covid the business would be break even

We know all the sub group business’s have failed to post accounts still

We know that a grant is being perused and strangely the publicity hungry Mr Vaughan is shy on detail

The financial strains are huge and a lending company wants security - we know the security is the head lease as that’s the lease used last time for security against the bond. We know there are structural repair issues which would as with the rain outside example lead one to resonantly assume borrowing without a commitment to deal with that is not forthcoming

I’m a it’s been raining outside sort of guy when I look at puddles on the floor. I think Vulgaris, Neil’s Shugs et Al would believe a whale has been rescued if Vaughan tells them that

 

[Dubai-Dodger]

So if something unforseen comes up in the survey of my house when I remortgage soon I should go and get a grant from the council to fix it... Gotcha

In certain circumstances yes …. Depends on your house and what’s wrong. I’ve had grants to do work to my house in the past ….. asbestos removal springs to mind. The government have flung plenty of tax payers money around over the years to make home improvements and they still are ! So your sarcasm doesn’t really hold water.

 

[mr_monkey]

In certain circumstances yes …. Depends on your house and what’s wrong. I’ve had grants to do work to my house in the past ….. asbestos removal springs to mind. The government have flung plenty of tax payers money around over the years to make home improvements and they still are ! So your sarcasm doesn’t really hold water.

What absolute nonsense

And 13 million isnt exactly flung about money especially with the state of the world right now... Stop trying to justify shitty behaviour because your club has been caught out

 

[David O'Day]

@Dubai-Dodger why the fuck do you turn up to post your utter nonsense just after each time the news gets worse for Wasps?

You support a failing club who play in a city that doesn't want them and who have had to beg the WMCA for 13 million quid.

Your nonsense about home improvement grants is at best semi literate.

 

[Grendel]

@Dubai-Dodger why the fuck do you turn up to post your utter nonsense just after each time the news gets worse for Wasps?

You support a failing club who play in a city that doesn't want them and who have had to beg the WMCA for 13 million quid.

Your nonsense about home improvement grants is at best semi literate.

we don’t really need a drunken imbecile like you at the moment can you please stay on the park bench for the night I want him to answer my point

 

[Dubai-Dodger]

in a court you consider what’s in front of you it’s not speculation it’s evidence and interpretation of it.

With respect Grendal you know F’ all about evidence or how to interpret it.

As I’ve said to you on the forum if you go outside and the pavement has puddles on it but the sun is shining you are likely to in your words speculate its been raining - it’s based off what you see. If you conclude a whale has found its way on the street and caused that but was removed in the 15 minutes that you were inside I’d suggest that’s very speculative

I’ve seen your puddle analogy before which is great until you discover there’s been a burst water main (not a whale) that’s now been switched off. Of course it could have been raining but don’t always let your eyes deceive you and certainly don’t jump to conclusions because of what you see in front of you.

Remember this ?

 

[Grendel]

With respect Grendal you know F’ all about evidence or how to interpret it.



I’ve seen your puddle analogy before which is great until you discover there’s been a burst water main that’s now been switched off. Of course it could have been raining but don’t always let your eyes deceive you and certainly don’t jump to conclusions because if what you see in front of you.

Remember this ?

good now you seem rattled.

How many times would it be rain on the floor - 90%? 98%?

Can you respond to my points please

 

[clint van damme]

With respect Grendal you know F’ all about evidence or how to interpret it.



I’ve seen your puddle analogy before which is great until you discover there’s been a burst water main (not a whale) that’s now been switched off. Of course it could have been raining but don’t always let your eyes deceive you and certainly don’t jump to conclusions because of what you see in front of you.

Remember this ?

you mentalist!

 

[David O'Day]

you mentalist!

View attachment 25131

He's got proper head wasps

 

[Dubai-Dodger]

good now you seem rattled.

How many times would it be rain on the floor - 90%? 98%?

Can you respond to my points please

not rattled at all Grendel

You make some very valid points some are factual and I would never deny them. Some are you joining the dots as you often do which is fine. I prefer to wait until we have a complete picture. I’ve certainly never denied Wasps have financial problems. I’ve made no secret of how I now view the complex business tangle that the Rugby club that I support now finds it’s self in. What more do you want me to say ?

 

[Gynnsthetonic]

Someone on another forum mentioned the August 12th deadline (again) is the last day of the Commonwealth games, could this have a bearing as they don't want the stadium operators going into receivership during this time

 

[Flying Fokker]

Someone on another forum mentioned the August 12th deadline (again) is the last day of the Commonwealth games, could this have a bearing as they don't want the stadium operators going into receivership during this time

Doubt it. Although it would be a good time to ask for a loan off WMCA if that were the case.

 

[Gynnsthetonic]

not rattled at all Grendel

You make some very valid points some are factual and I would never deny them. Some are you joining the dots as you often do which is fine. I prefer to wait until we have a complete picture. I’ve certainly never denied Wasps have financial problems. I’ve made no secret of how I now view the complex business tangle that the Rugby club that I support now finds it’s self in. What more do you want me to say ?

Your club is basically insolvent, you've not issued the accounts, you've defaulted on the bonds and losing 10m a year, how Wasp are still allowed to trade I don't know.

 

[ccfcchris]

not rattled at all Grendel

You make some very valid points some are factual and I would never deny them. Some are you joining the dots as you often do which is fine. I prefer to wait until we have a complete picture. I’ve certainly never denied Wasps have financial problems. I’ve made no secret of how I now view the complex business tangle that the Rugby club that I support now finds it’s self in. What more do you want me to say ?

Simple question for you Dubai-Dodger. Do you think the attendances Wasps get at the CBS Arena are big enough to secure the clubs near time and longer future?

If not what do you think they can do to remedy this?

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Simple question for you Dubai-Dodger. Do you think the attendances Wasps get at the CBS Arena are big enough to secure the clubs near time and longer future?

If not what do you think they can do to remedy this?

Do a bond to raise some funds????

 

[Dubai-Dodger]

Simple question for you Dubai-Dodger. Do you think the attendances Wasps get at the CBS Arena are big enough to secure the clubs near time and longer future?

If not what do you think they can do to remedy this?

The problem is the attendance alone isn’t just the answer as you are aware the rugby is Just a part of a complicated business, so it somewhat depends how the whole business performs. But if you take the attendances alone the way to improve that is to play more constantly, win games and level of support will rise much like many sports.

 

[Gynnsthetonic]

The problem is the attendance alone isn’t just the answer as you are aware the rugby is Just a part of a complicated business, so it somewhat depends how the whole business performs. But if you take the attendances alone the way to improve that is to play more constantly, win games and level of support will rise much like many sports.

After paying back Richardson and paying the the interest out of the initial 35m what was the plan to pay it back, further loans by the look of it which may not happen as the business insolvent

 

[Dubai-Dodger]

Your club is basically insolvent, you've not issued the accounts, you've defaulted on the bonds and losing 10m a year, how Wasp are still allowed to trade I don't know.

same as many other businesses small and large that lose money, they continue to trade.

 

[oldfiver]

About as obvious as 2+2=5 but of course it suits your narrative to join the dots.

of course you could be right but the truth is you don’t know any more than I do.

About as obvious as 2+2=5

Isnt that how WASPS fudged their accounts?

 

[Liquid Gold]

same as many other businesses small and large that lose money, they continue to trade.

Because people prop them up. Your owner has seemingly reached the bottom of his wallet and you're asking our local government to do it instead.

Unfortunately you're not part of the fabric of the area so apart from the councillors that are up to their necks in your shit you have fuck all sympathy.

 

[Nick]

The problem is the attendance alone isn’t just the answer as you are aware the rugby is Just a part of a complicated business, so it somewhat depends how the whole business performs. But if you take the attendances alone the way to improve that is to play more constantly, win games and level of support will rise much like many sports.

Yeah, the rest of it is losing money too.

 

[oldfiver]

In certain circumstances yes …. Depends on your house and what’s wrong. I’ve had grants to do work to my house in the past ….. asbestos removal springs to mind. The government have flung plenty of tax payers money around over the years to make home improvements and they still are ! So your sarcasm doesn’t really hold water.

The grants you refer to are not just available for one off events. They are usually the result of a safety or similar national requirement

It would seem WASPS , a privately run organisation wants public funds because they seem to feel they are a special case.

Grenfell Tower and similar buildings cannot get full funding - what makes WASPS so special?

 

[oldfiver]

The problem is the attendance alone isn’t just the answer as you are aware the rugby is Just a part of a complicated business, so it somewhat depends how the whole business performs. But if you take the attendances alone the way to improve that is to play more constantly, win games and level of support will rise much like many sports.

Only one other Rugby Club makes a profit from the pure Rugby side - but they may not manage that this year

 

[Moff]

Is it clear ? What makes you say that ? ….. perhaps nobody will confirm it because it’s not correct. Although im sure everyone will say im wrong

If its not correct then please do enlighten us with your superior knowledge

 

[Nick]

Remember when the media said a few wasps players were leaving. Wasps fans said it was all made up because they were jealous.

They left.

 

[fernandopartridge]

He flew off again yesterday to Pontins.

Neverland more like

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[fernandopartridge]

Couldnt some be in pension funds?

Doubt a pension fund would be buying into an unregulated product like this

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