Wasps downward spiral... (71 Viewers)

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Flying Fokker

Flying Fokker

Well-Known Member
Piss off Wasps.

30/7/2022
09:25		It is a matter of timing. If you fire-sell the stadium and buyers know bondholders are desperate, the bids could be very low with proceeds insufficient to redeem the bonds for anything near par. The debt/equity deal would have the advantage of enabling an orderly sales process over a year or two so that you have a better chance of getting a fair price for the stadium. This is all a bit theoretical anyway, the current owners will probably give us the choice between a pure bond refi or liquidation, in which case I will choose liquidation as well and take the loss.
chabar1		Read Full Thread
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30/7/2022
09:16		If there isn't sufficient cash being generated then doesn't that make them insolvent ? I wouldn't want equity in such a business. I agree with bigfish: the stadium needs to be sold so that the bonds can be redeemed.
jgh03		Read Full Thread
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30/7/2022
08:41		I agree with you. Or at the least, reject the first offer and see if they come back with something very compelling. They could offer a part cash / part equity deal. Banks may not be willing to lend the full £35m as there isn't enough equity in the business nor enough cash generation to cover bank debt interest, but they may be willing to finance say £15-20m. That could provide for a part repayment of the bond and the remainder would get converted into equity. At least we would have the satisfaction of having wiped out current owners who have behaved dishonestly.
chabar1
 
chiefdave

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
Does anyone know how insolvency actually works? At what point would they be classed as trading insolently because reading a definition I'm not sure how it doesn't apply, 'An insolvent company is defined as one which is unable to meet its financial obligations as and when they fall due'

We know they're losing money every year and that's being covered by the owner but they currently seem to have no way of paying a debt that is well past due.
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
chiefdave said:
Does anyone know how insolvency actually works? At what point would they be classed as trading insolently because reading a definition I'm not sure how it doesn't apply, 'An insolvent company is defined as one which is unable to meet its financial obligations as and when they fall due'

We know they're losing money every year and that's being covered by the owner but they currently seem to have no way of paying a debt that is well past due.
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The issue here really is what the proposal will be to the bond holders - as a guess a 12 month extension or foreclosure?
 
O

oldfiver

Well-Known Member
Grendel said:
Fastcst who posted at 9 last night seems to have an idea of the likely scenarios

uk.advfn.com

ADVFN

uk.advfn.com
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But you need to get at least 75% approval

Might flush out the large investors tho ? 🤔
Grendel said:
The issue here really is what the proposal will be to the bond holders - as a guess a 12 month extension or foreclosure?
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That sounds like the Trustees thinking

They need a Receiver to really manage the debt and asset
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
The mood on that other wasps forum has changed. The likes of Neils are a lot less assured - Suggs remains the same of course and Steve from Cov says as they’ve bought a training ground the finances aren’t as bad as people say they are
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
Grendel said:
The mood on that other wasps forum has changed. The likes of Neils are a lot less assured - Suggs remains the same of course and Steve from Cov says as they’ve bought a training ground the finances aren’t as bad as people say they are
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There are people like Shugs in the chess world. Usually the type to keep moving their king around against 5 queens hoping for a draw
 
Gynnsthetonic

Gynnsthetonic

Well-Known Member
But how are Wasps generating income now to pay for wages and the training ground, hardly any season tickets sold, chairman not putting money in and still losing £10m a year, that's without paying the bond, they have released a lot of players and don't seem to have bought any in but with no relegation they can just carry on and lose every game.
 
Philosoraptor

Philosoraptor

Well-Known Member
Gynnsthetonic said:
But how are Wasps generating income now to pay for wages and the training ground, hardly any season tickets sold, chairman not putting money in and still losing £10m a year, that's without paying the bond, they have released a lot of players and don't seem to have bought any in but with no relegation they can just carry on and lose every game.
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That is exactly the thing.

Any pot they can get for a future loan will dramatically shrink by around £10M a year, leaving another financial entity trying to reclaim their losses against similar stuff the bondholders have to claim against when it all goes tits up.

That, if there is not a miracle turnaround of biblical proportions.
 
jordan210

jordan210

Well-Known Member
Remember when wasps fan thought HSBC would just give them the money.

Also every month that tickets by the BOE puts base rates up what will have an effect on the interstate from HSBC.
 
Kneeza

Kneeza

Well-Known Member
Shugs really is the Monty Python Black Knight isn't he?
"Come back and take what's coming to you, you yellow bastards!! Come back here and take what's coming to you!"
A never ending source of amusement.
 
D

djr8369

Well-Known Member
It should have been obvious from the moment of default they were extremely unlikely to get all their money back.
 
Skyblueweeman

Skyblueweeman

Well-Known Member
Love seeing this about them and their finances. I remember finance manager from the hospitality industry who lives in Kenilworth, telling me how great this bond scheme was when they did it and that some of his mates had signed up.

I told him at the time that it was shit.

Love how things are turning out.
 
Terry Gibson's perm

Terry Gibson's perm

Well-Known Member
Always makes for a happy read that site, they seem like they are getting more desperate.
 
P

Peter Billing Eyes

Well-Known Member
Quote from Drunken Wasps “This thread is fast becoming like a Sky Blues Talk thread. Full of speculation and hot air with little fact. The difference here is that we don’t stop SBT posters airing their views here”. To which I replied, “Sky blues fans helping you out with attendance on here as well as at the stadium”. This was swiftly removed by their admin, which kind of makes the original post hypocritical.
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Peter Billing Eyes said:
Quote from Drunken Wasps “This thread is fast becoming like a Sky Blues Talk thread. Full of speculation and hot air with little fact. The difference here is that we don’t stop SBT posters airing their views here”. To which I replied, “Sky blues fans helping you out with attendance on here as well as at the stadium”. This was swiftly removed by their admin, which kind of makes the original post hypocritical.
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To be fair my posts never get removed from there
 
chiefdave

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
Peter Billing Eyes said:
Quote from Drunken Wasps “This thread is fast becoming like a Sky Blues Talk thread. Full of speculation and hot air with little fact. The difference here is that we don’t stop SBT posters airing their views here”. To which I replied, “Sky blues fans helping you out with attendance on here as well as at the stadium”. This was swiftly removed by their admin, which kind of makes the original post hypocritical.
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Shugs has got it into his head that anyone who doesn't bash Wasps on here is banned or has their ability to post throttled. As far as I'm aware the only person who got banned was Italia for his never ending advertising for which he refused to make a charity donation.

But on their site anyone who doesn't tow the Wasps PR line is swiftly dispatched.
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
chiefdave said:
Shugs has got it into his head that anyone who doesn't bash Wasps on here is banned or has their ability to post throttled. As far as I'm aware the only person who got banned was Italia for his never ending advertising for which he refused to make a charity donation.

But on their site anyone who doesn't tow the Wasps PR line is swiftly dispatched.
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Again it’s not entirely the case amazingly I seem pretty well tolerated at the minute
 
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