Wasps downward spiral... (3 Viewers)

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

The way security was written about in the prospectus always seemed a bit off to me but I assumed it was just going over my head and as I wasn't about to hand them thousands of my own money not an issue.

How would it work in practice? Wasps say we're going to offer you 20p in the £, to pick a random figure, the bondholders say hold on we've got security. They then try and enforce that security and get the lease sold to recover their money, what happens then?

Wasps holdings sell the lease for £1 to an offshore hedge fund in Malta, and then says you can fight over the £1?

 

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[djr8369]

The way security was written about in the prospectus always seemed a bit off to me but I assumed it was just going over my head and as I wasn't about to hand them thousands of my own money not an issue.

How would it work in practice? Wasps say we're going to offer you 20p in the £, to pick a random figure, the bondholders say hold on we've got security. They then try and enforce that security and get the lease sold to recover their money, what happens then?

Could they sell the lease to one of the other companies under the umbrella for a nominal fee? Essentially wapsretain the lease and write off the debt to the bond holders?

One way or another they are going to use the good faith of most of the bond holders being supporters and the difficulty in bond holders organising to effectively write the debt off, I’m sure.

 

[MusicDating]

There are I thought I read somewhere 3,000 bond holders exist - most I’d assume have £2,000 in it purchased through a broker. It’s difficult to get a collective response through a vast amount of people

That only covers 6m though. I assume if 1 bondholder bought 18m's worth, they'd control the consent solicitation?

 

[djr8369]

That only covers 6m though. I assume if 1 bondholder bought 18m's worth, they'd control the consent solicitation?

If there are any institutional investors with large stakes we are for a treat.

 

[tisza]

Wasps holdings sell the lease for £1 to an offshore hedge fund in Malta, and then says you can fight over the £1?

sounds like fraud. Moving an asset at less than market value (which they've set themselves in accounts and bond doc)

 

[MalcSB]

Could they sell the lease to one of the other companies under the umbrella for a nominal fee? Essentially wapsretain the lease and write off the debt to the bond holders?

One way or another they are going to use the good faith of most of the bond holders being supporters and the difficulty in bond holders organising to effectively write the debt off, I’m sure.

I don’t think the majority (by value)of bondholders are supporters.

 

[MalcSB]

That only covers 6m though. I assume if 1 bondholder bought 18m's worth, they'd control the consent solicitation?

It’s 75% by value, so to guarantee control without any other support they would need £26.25 million. On the other hand, to guarantee non acceptance would only (!) take £8.8 million.

 

[djr8369]

I don’t think the majority (by value)of bondholders are supporters.

Fingers crossed

 

[Nick]

sounds like fraud. Moving an asset at less than market value (which they've set themselves in accounts and bond doc)

Exactly, that would be fraud.

 

[MalcSB]

Wasps holdings sell the lease for £1 to an offshore hedge fund in Malta, and then says you can fight over the £1?

The charge over the arena is held by the trustees who are US Bank Trustees Ltd. They will have a responsibility to get the best deal for the bondholders - selling for £1 would damage their reputation.

 

[MusicDating]

'Absolute bin fire': Wasps criticised by former employee

Pete Nuttall was the voice of Wasps for more than 20 years prior to the 2021/22 season

www.coventrytelegraph.net

"What an absolute bin fire Wasps Rugby is at the moment," he said in a Tweet. "The coaches, players and fans have been utterly let down by completely shambolic stewardship. They deserve so much better."

A number of fans engaged with Nuttall's post who shared his concerns about the Black and Golds. He responded to one by saying: "Once the old guard of supporters are disengaged, and the new supporters that they’ve lumped all their hopes on don’t materialise, what then?"

 

[chiefdave]

'Absolute bin fire': Wasps criticised by former employee

Pete Nuttall was the voice of Wasps for more than 20 years prior to the 2021/22 season

www.coventrytelegraph.net

"What an absolute bin fire Wasps Rugby is at the moment," he said in a Tweet. "The coaches, players and fans have been utterly let down by completely shambolic stewardship. They deserve so much better."

A number of fans engaged with Nuttall's post who shared his concerns about the Black and Golds. He responded to one by saying: "Once the old guard of supporters are disengaged, and the new supporters that they’ve lumped all their hopes on don’t materialise, what then?"

Must have said Bobby can't have a free shirt this year. Well at this rate nobody will have a shirt at all as they don't seem to have any kit

 

[Liquid Gold]

This is just absolute gold. I am wallowing.


Also I love the idea of the bondholders taking them down but Wasps fucking over the bondholders that enabled there move would also be pretty sweet.

 

[MusicDating]

 

[Nick]

'Absolute bin fire': Wasps criticised by former employee

Pete Nuttall was the voice of Wasps for more than 20 years prior to the 2021/22 season

www.coventrytelegraph.net

"What an absolute bin fire Wasps Rugby is at the moment," he said in a Tweet. "The coaches, players and fans have been utterly let down by completely shambolic stewardship. They deserve so much better."

A number of fans engaged with Nuttall's post who shared his concerns about the Black and Golds. He responded to one by saying: "Once the old guard of supporters are disengaged, and the new supporters that they’ve lumped all their hopes on don’t materialise, what then?"

Weird, has he deleted them now as I can't find them?

 

[Nick]

Ah can see now it's been posted.

Apparently members on here are stirring it up with bondholders now too. It's like when it was SISU stirring up about loads of players leaving a couple of seasons ago and they all ended up leaving..

I'm pretty sure the bondholders with thousands invested aren't watching posts on here for their latest move.

 

[shepardo01]

..... have they stopped paying The Telegraph for advertising space?....

 

[Nick]

..... have they stopped paying The Telegraph for advertising space?....

It's looking that way isn't it.

 

[chiefdave]

..... have they stopped paying The Telegraph for advertising space?....

think they've stopped paying everyone

 

[Saddlebrains]

This is fantastic.

Bondholders discussing forcing an Arena sale

 

[djr8369]

think they've stopped paying everyone

Players and staff?

 

[Terry Gibson's perm]

Brains made of mush these people wasps can’t afford to pay anything so let’s request an interest rate increase.

 

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

This is glorious

 

[Saddlebrains]

Has this gave anyone else an erection or?

 

[AOM]

think they've stopped paying everyone

Bring your own tap water next Tuesday

 

[Colin Steins Smile]

I would be interested to hear what someone more knowledgable than me on these matters has to say. My understanding is that most of the bonds will be held by brokers on behalf of their clients AND those clients will need to communicate directly with those brokers, as to their views.
Secondly, is it correct that any decision on whether to extend the period for the bond to be repaid would require 75% of value of the bonds owners to agree? That's circa £26.25M
Apologies if someone has already answered these points

 

[chiefdave]

Secondly, is it correct that any decision on whether to extend the period for the bond to be repaid would require 75% of value of the bonds owners to agree? That's circa £26.25M

Is it 75% of the total or 75% of those who reply? If a large amount are held by brokers who don't pass the info on then surely its near impossible to get 75% to agree, unless by default the brokers just agree to anything unless they are instructed otherwise.

Whole setup seems dodgy to be honest but I guess it just highlights that you should't get involved if you don't fully understand what you're getting into. Suspect there's a few Wasps supporters who put money in not realising they could get to this point and have Wasps basically say we're not paying.

 

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

What makes me laugh is that apparently this is all bollocks - and the speculation is driven by Coventry city fans…. I thought all football fans were Neanderthals, why would anyone listen to us

 

[Nick]

What makes me laugh is that apparently this is all bollocks - and the speculation is driven by Coventry city fans…. I thought all football fans were Neanderthals, why would anyone listen to us

That's their default, CCFC fans or SISU making it up.

 

[MalcSB]

I would be interested to hear what someone more knowledgable than me on these matters has to say. My understanding is that most of the bonds will be held by brokers on behalf of their clients AND those clients will need to communicate directly with those brokers, as to their views.
Secondly, is it correct that any decision on whether to extend the period for the bond to be repaid would require 75% of value of the bonds owners to agree? That's circa £26.25M
Apologies if someone has already answered these points

From what I have read, it does seem that the majority of bonds are held by brokers on behalf of their clients. It appears that a number of holders were not made aware of the previous consent solicitation ( which made some of Wasps financial KPIs less onerous) and they are unhappy about it. Of course, all bondholders are well aware that £35 million did not appear in their bank accounts in May and hence are being more proactive this time.

The prospectus actually says 75% of the total nominal bond value.

the Bondholders are debating what would be an acceptable offer. Range of 9 to 20% interest and/ or a range of 6 weeks to 2 years to maturity. Some are also suggesting foreclosure.

 

[wingy]

How would administration or CVA work with the bond? If they just turn round to bondholders and say, for example, we'll give you 50p in the £ why would they accept when they have security? Unless there's not enough security to cover the bonds you're not accepting less are you?

Don't really know .
But don't they get 5yr window to pay down on it.
I just did don't see going forward how they would generate that amount even with a reduction on all of it.

 

[wingy]

Are the bonds effectively locked permanently ?
Holder's never able to shift them through their own efforts.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Are the bonds effectively locked permanently ?
Holder's never able to shift them through their own efforts.

Yeah they're unlisted at the minute

 

[MalcSB]

Don't really know .
But don't they get 5yr window to pay down on it.
I just did don't see going forward how they would generate that amount even with a reduction on all of it.

The trustees can call in the security on default, and could have already done that but are holding off for now to see what Wasps can offer on revised terms. I am surprised Premier League Rugby haven’t got involved as Wasps must have broken the regulations about financial probity and stability.

haven’t seen any suggestion of a 5 year window in relation to the bonds, although that is the period for a CVA.

 

[MalcSB]

Yeah they're unlisted at the minute

Which bondholders aren’t happy about.