Wasps downward spiral... (56 Viewers)

jordan210 · Oct 30, 2020

oldfiver said:
Wasps' bid to waive bond covenants goes to second meeting | TheBusinessDesk.com

A further meeting will now be convened to try gain permission from bondholders

www.thebusinessdesk.com

Delayed in their proposed refinancing proposal !

I love how good Vaughan is at spin.

“We would like to thank the Bondholders who did vote in favour of the Proposals at the Initial Meeting, which would have been sufficient to approve the Proposals had the quorum requirement been met.
“As is often the case with retail bonds, given the broad investor base and the quorum requirement for this Initial Meeting, not enough Bondholders have voted on the Proposals ahead of the voting deadline for the Initial Meeting"

So they had enough votes to approve the proposal. But the minimum number of votes had not been hit.

Surely then you did not have the enough votes to pass it. Hence why you need a meeting without a quorum.

Interesting the next meeting is a day before the interest is due to be paid.

chiefdave · Oct 30, 2020

They're being asked to agree to a lot more than the last time they breached the bond covenants aren't they.

Think this time round they're signing away their own rights with nothing in return as opposed to a change in what types of income are allowed which was the case last time (allowing the owner to put his own money in to cover a shortfall).

Wonder how many Wasps fans who are also bondholders are signing those rights away without understanding the implications?

Brighton Sky Blue · Oct 30, 2020

jordan210 said:
I love how good Vaughan is at spin.

“We would like to thank the Bondholders who did vote in favour of the Proposals at the Initial Meeting, which would have been sufficient to approve the Proposals had the quorum requirement been met.
“As is often the case with retail bonds, given the broad investor base and the quorum requirement for this Initial Meeting, not enough Bondholders have voted on the Proposals ahead of the voting deadline for the Initial Meeting"

So they had enough votes to approve the proposal. But the minimum number of votes had not been hit.

Surely then you did not have the enough votes to pass it. Hence why you need a meeting without a quorum.

Interesting the next meeting is a day before the interest is due to be paid.

He knows they’ll get away with it as always

jordan210 · Oct 30, 2020

Brighton Sky Blue said:
He knows they’ll get away with it as always

It does mean its basically passed on the next meeting. Unless ten ton of holders say no.

fernandopartridge · Oct 30, 2020

jordan210 said:
I love how good Vaughan is at spin.

“We would like to thank the Bondholders who did vote in favour of the Proposals at the Initial Meeting, which would have been sufficient to approve the Proposals had the quorum requirement been met.
“As is often the case with retail bonds, given the broad investor base and the quorum requirement for this Initial Meeting, not enough Bondholders have voted on the Proposals ahead of the voting deadline for the Initial Meeting"

So they had enough votes to approve the proposal. But the minimum number of votes had not been hit.

Surely then you did not have the enough votes to pass it. Hence why you need a meeting without a quorum.

Interesting the next meeting is a day before the interest is due to be paid.

I assume such votes are outside the scope of the Electoral Commission but I'd suggest that he's being pretty disingenuous there in stating that voters had voted a certain way.

shepardo01 · Oct 30, 2020

chiefdave said:
They're being asked to agree to a lot more than the last time they breached the bond covenants aren't they.

Think this time round they're signing away their own rights with nothing in return as opposed to a change in what types of income are allowed which was the case last time (allowing the owner to put his own money in to cover a shortfall).

Wonder how many Wasps fans who are also bondholders are signing those rights away without understanding the implications?

What is it they are signing away Dave?
Will this mean that some of the end point payments don't get paid?
Is this another get out of jail "free" card for them??

Brighton Sky Blue · Oct 30, 2020

jordan210 said:
It does mean its basically passed on the next meeting. Unless ten ton of holders say no.

Even if it were rejected a white knight would undoubtedly appear

jordan210 · Oct 30, 2020

Some numbers

"The figures were (subject to further checks): 3,091,000 FOR; 970,900 AGAINST; 3,500 ABSTAINING, producing a total of 4,065,400

So yes @dandigirl, a very slender 75% majority on the current figures, but what about the huge number of votes - approx 31m - that have not yet been cast ?

Vaughan's subsequent comment about the "broad investor base" betrays some nervousness, I think - there may be some large holdings that are hanging fire.

In that sense I think watching2017 is right to call extra time - or for Fat Ladies Singing

The current bond price is of course the huge conundrum - is it 'rationally priced' at about 40p because investors have despaired of continuing interest payments, AND of the viability of the Club/Finance plc AND of any realisable value in the Stadium beyond about £14m (ie 40% of £35m)??
Remove any one of those three doom-laden propositions, and there should indeed be a quite substantial 'kickup' in price. But I am still genuinely unsure whether accepting the Proposals is the only/best way to achieve that.
I really do urge Bondholders to read the Memorandum carefully.

@dandigirl - you look forward to bondholders being repaid. Indeed, but how much ? Don't imagine that the Board's commitment to 'refinancing' will offer Bondholders REDEMPTION AT PAR - I suspect there is another Consent Solicitation to be held in early 2021 when the big votes WILL count"

chiefdave · Oct 30, 2020

shepardo01 said:
What is it they are signing away Dave?
Will this mean that some of the end point payments don't get paid?
Is this another get out of jail "free" card for them??

tbh it needs someone more knowledgeable on bonds to look but they have a Interest Service Reserve Account at the moment which from what I can make out ensures they have enough money to pay the interest, that account can't be withdrawn from by Wasps. They want to change that to allow the Issuer (Wasps) to withdraw money from it.

It also seems to change the way they calculate the amount of security bond holders have, changing the way they calculate that security. That's way over my head but if I was a bond holder it would cause me enough concern to at the very least get someone who knows what they're looking at to advise.

Brighton Sky Blue · Oct 30, 2020

chiefdave said:
tbh it needs someone more knowledgeable on bonds to look but they have a Interest Service Reserve Account at the moment which from what I can make out ensures they have enough money to pay the interest, that account can't be withdrawn from by Wasps. They want to change that to allow the Issuer (Wasps) to withdraw money from it.

It also seems to change the way they calculate the amount of security bond holders have, changing the way they calculate that security. That's way over my head but if I was a bond holder it would cause me enough concern to at the very least get someone who knows what they're looking at to advise.

In the age of Covid hitting personal finances you’d think there’d be fewer people willing to write off more funds

chiefdave · Oct 30, 2020

Brighton Sky Blue said:
In the age of Covid hitting personal finances you’d think there’d be fewer people willing to write off more funds

Surely that will hit them when it comes time to refinance. How many supporters put money in based on claims they would be the biggest and richest club in Europe? Things are very different now even if you ignore the impact of covid.

If they manage to refinance in a world still reeling from the impact of covid, and by that point also Brexit, suspect it will come at a much greater cost.

They're coming to the taking out a Wonga loan to pay off your credit card as you can't afford to pay it back stage. But having struggled to meet the requirements of the current borrowing you have to question how they are going to meet the terms of any refinancing.

shepardo01 · Oct 30, 2020

Bobby "Wasps good news" Bridge sharpening his pencil??? (warming up the lap top I guess these days!)

Nick · Oct 30, 2020

shepardo01 said:
Bobby "Wasps good news" Bridge sharpening his pencil??? (warming up the lap top I guess these days!)

Or just waiting for an email from a PR company to copy and paste.

oldfiver · Oct 30, 2020

jordan210 said:
Some numbers

"The figures were (subject to further checks): 3,091,000 FOR; 970,900 AGAINST; 3,500 ABSTAINING, producing a total of 4,065,400

So yes @dandigirl, a very slender 75% majority on the current figures, but what about the huge number of votes - approx 31m - that have not yet been cast ?

Vaughan's subsequent comment about the "broad investor base" betrays some nervousness, I think - there may be some large holdings that are hanging fire.

In that sense I think watching2017 is right to call extra time - or for Fat Ladies Singing

The current bond price is of course the huge conundrum - is it 'rationally priced' at about 40p because investors have despaired of continuing interest payments, AND of the viability of the Club/Finance plc AND of any realisable value in the Stadium beyond about £14m (ie 40% of £35m)??
Remove any one of those three doom-laden propositions, and there should indeed be a quite substantial 'kickup' in price. But I am still genuinely unsure whether accepting the Proposals is the only/best way to achieve that.
I really do urge Bondholders to read the Memorandum carefully.

@dandigirl - you look forward to bondholders being repaid. Indeed, but how much ? Don't imagine that the Board's commitment to 'refinancing' will offer Bondholders REDEMPTION AT PAR - I suspect there is another Consent Solicitation to be held in early 2021 when the big votes WILL count"

Can you still access this post as it is not showing when I look at advfn?

oldfiver · Oct 30, 2020

jordan210 said:
Some numbers

"The figures were (subject to further checks): 3,091,000 FOR; 970,900 AGAINST; 3,500 ABSTAINING, producing a total of 4,065,400

So yes @dandigirl, a very slender 75% majority on the current figures, but what about the huge number of votes - approx 31m - that have not yet been cast ?

Vaughan's subsequent comment about the "broad investor base" betrays some nervousness, I think - there may be some large holdings that are hanging fire.

In that sense I think watching2017 is right to call extra time - or for Fat Ladies Singing

The current bond price is of course the huge conundrum - is it 'rationally priced' at about 40p because investors have despaired of continuing interest payments, AND of the viability of the Club/Finance plc AND of any realisable value in the Stadium beyond about £14m (ie 40% of £35m)??
Remove any one of those three doom-laden propositions, and there should indeed be a quite substantial 'kickup' in price. But I am still genuinely unsure whether accepting the Proposals is the only/best way to achieve that.
I really do urge Bondholders to read the Memorandum carefully.

@dandigirl - you look forward to bondholders being repaid. Indeed, but how much ? Don't imagine that the Board's commitment to 'refinancing' will offer Bondholders REDEMPTION AT PAR - I suspect there is another Consent Solicitation to be held in early 2021 when the big votes WILL count"

It shows none of the big bondholders ( I assume there must be some ? ) did not vote
Surely if they had wanted it pushed through they would have filed a proxy yes vote
Strange tactic?

jordan210 · Oct 30, 2020

oldfiver said:
Can you still access this post as it is not showing when I look at advfn?

Cant see it on my post but is in my email alerts and takes me to the post, on the site.

the new document maybe some info in that

London Stock Exchange | London Stock Exchange

null

www.londonstockexchange.com

oldfiver · Oct 30, 2020

jordan210 said:
Cant see it on my post but is in my email alerts and takes me to the post, on the site.

the new document maybe some info in that

London Stock Exchange | London Stock Exchange

null

www.londonstockexchange.com

I have the RNS

If you check the ADVFN message numbering that one is missing ???

jordan210 · Oct 30, 2020

oldfiver said:
I have the RNS

If you check the ADVFN message numbering that one is missing ???

post is 144

MusicDating · Nov 5, 2020

Now why would people be dumping bonds at a huge loss only 8 days before and interest payment is due?...

jordan210 · Nov 5, 2020

MusicDating said:
Now why would people be dumping bonds at a huge loss only 8 days before and interest payment is due?...

View attachment 17425

They could possibly be Auto trades. As the bond dropped a few % the other day.

Some might have made a bit of £ on them if they purchased them when they crashed right down a few months ago. But like you say odd they dint wait for the interest.

MusicDating · Nov 5, 2020

jordan210 said:
They could possibly be Auto trades. As the bond dropped a few % the other day.

Some might have made a bit of £ on them if they purchased them when they crashed right down a few months ago. But like you say odd they dint wait for the interest.

I could be wrong, but I don't think there were any trades at the 'crash' price and it went back above 40 almost instantly.

jordan210 · Nov 5, 2020

MusicDating said:
I could be wrong, but I don't think there were any trades at the 'crash' price and it went back above 40 almost instantly.

View attachment 17426

Was quite a few trades over the 2 days ranging from 27p to 41p remember it dropped from near 80 to under 30 in March.

But is a bit odd the trades in last few days.

oldfiver · Nov 5, 2020

jordan210 said:
Was quite a few trades over the 2 days ranging from 27p to 41p remember it dropped from near 80 to under 30 in March.

But is a bit odd the trades in last few days.

ADVFN

Wasps 22 price history.

uk.advfn.com

It never hit 41

Ignore the Bid Offer figures - the traders are trying to create a market by offering to sell at 41 today ( and failing )

oldfiver · Nov 5, 2020

MusicDating said:
Now why would people be dumping bonds at a huge loss only 8 days before and interest payment is due?...

Do we know when the cut off date is for ownership of the Bonds to get the interest payment

The Bond Issue date was the 7th so I suspect it will be those holding Bonds on 7th November

jordan210 · Nov 5, 2020

oldfiver said:
ADVFN

Wasps 22 price history.

uk.advfn.com

It never hit 41

Ignore the Bid Offer figures - the traders are trying to create a market by offering to sell at 41 today ( and failing )

I was talking about in March. Bonds sold between 27-41 over a 2 day period

wingy · Nov 5, 2020

jordan210 said:
Was quite a few trades over the 2 days ranging from 27p to 41p remember it dropped from near 80 to under 30 in March.

But is a bit odd the trades in last few days.

How many?

jordan210 · Nov 5, 2020

wingy said:
How many?

I can see around 17 trades. Not sure on the amounts as LSE website is having a hissy on me

fernandopartridge · Nov 6, 2020

Noticed that the Snooker Champion of Champions tournament which has been at the Ricoh the last few years is in MK this year. Oh dear.

Kneeza · Nov 7, 2020

fernandopartridge said:
Noticed that the Snooker Champion of Champions tournament which has been at the Ricoh the last few years is in MK this year. Oh dear.

How movements start?
Seriously though, wouldn't it be luvverly (better for their real fanbase too).

Skybluemichael · Nov 13, 2020

Was the bond interest payment today?

jordan210 · Nov 18, 2020

Looks like more cheap/free money for rugby

oldskyblue58 · Nov 18, 2020

When I read the solicitation details I did wonder if some sort of funding was in the offing. This hasn't just suddenly happened that funding available its taken weeks and reports to government.

I would think some of the solicictation process was done to remove any restrictions that might affect the assistance. The government assistance will partly be repayable loans and the bonds had primacy so would stop new finance I think

Some of the covenants were a bit optimistic from day one when you look at the profit history of the stadium. So not surprised particularly in covid times these have been diluted or removed

The solicitation that was passed I think carries a phrase that basically draws a line under previous financing and separates it from future financing. Which would allow government loans and other assistance without affecting the bonds

I would think they are breathing a huge gasp of relief that they got it through in time. Once they didn't have a quorum first time the result was foregone conclusion though I think.

Still in a heap of trouble but no longer at the mercy of bondholders covenants

speedie87 · Nov 18, 2020

oldskyblue58 said:
When I read the solicitation details I did wonder if some sort of funding was in the offing. This hasn't just suddenly happened that funding available its taken weeks and reports to government.

I would think some of the solicictation process was done to remove any restrictions that might affect the assistance. The government assistance will partly be repayable loans and the bonds had primacy so would stop new finance I think

Some of the covenants were a bit optimistic from day one when you look at the profit history of the stadium. So not surprised particularly in covid times these have been diluted or removed

The solicitation that was passed I think carries a phrase that basically draws a line under previous financing and separates it from future financing. Which would allow government loans and other assistance without affecting the bonds

I would think they are breathing a huge gasp of relief that they got it through in time. Once they didn't have a quorum first time the result was foregone conclusion though I think.

Still in a heap of trouble but no longer at the mercy of bondholders covenants

I had a glance at the what they were voting on for someone and part of it was indeed to facilitate other forms of finance thus facilitating being able to receive government grants / loans

speedie87 · Nov 18, 2020

Does anyone know if the bond holders got their interest payments paid today?

bradwellskyblues · Nov 18, 2020

yes They did

Wasps downward spiral... (56 Viewers)

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