Wasps downward spiral... (11 Viewers)

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tisza

tisza

Well-Known Member
duffer said:
the face of it, it looks well governed, very low risk, and turns a profit. I can't see them loaning just to keep Wasps afloat, and they don't loan without security.
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Can't see the bond refinancing going to allow stadium to be used as security for another loan
 
C

CCFC54321

Well-Known Member
London wasps will come out with some utter dribble Drabble blaming the pandemic and that the business was on course until early 2020….Blar blar fucking Blar…. Brass necked bastards.

Sniggering when the cheque comes through the post. “Done CCC again chaps!” 🥂

Fucking stinks.
 
chiefdave

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
What never ceases to amaze me is the head in the sand attitude Wasps supporters have. They get constantly lied to and misled yet laud their owners and never believe there to be the slightest thing to be concerned about. Its a very odd attitude.

Their current situation is they are unable to pay a £35 million debt and are once again going cap in hand to the taxpayer. You would have to have at least the slightest concern that something was up yet looking at their forums you'd think this is how all business operates and anyone who suggests otherwise is a jealous CCFC fan. Its very strange.
 
oldskyblue58

oldskyblue58

CCFC Finance Director
Not sure the WMRA lends to private companies to pay historical debt. Don't know for sure. I would have thought such arrangements are for capital projects.

If the purpose is to finance bond debt and repay investors or trade creditors then they should turn it down. No ifs buts or maybes.

Wasps get to live with the consequences of that. Administration at best looming in that case. They got themselves in to this mess No sympathy for rank bad arrogant management and all the smoke & mirrors they have engaged in. It stinks

Am still puzzled how they can sign off the accounts for wasps holdings & wasps finance which effectively deal with the bond but can't file other members of the group who are guarantors to the bond. Can't help thinking I am missing something in the bond details and amendments
 
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D

Dubai-Dodger

Member
chiefdave said:
What never ceases to amaze me is the head in the sand attitude Wasps supporters have. They get constantly lied to and misled yet laud their owners and never believe there to be the slightest thing to be concerned about. Its a very odd attitude.

Their current situation is they are unable to pay a £35 million debt and are once again going cap in hand to the taxpayer. You would have to have at least the slightest concern that something was up yet looking at their forums you'd think this is how all business operates and anyone who suggests otherwise is a jealous CCFC fan. Its very strange.
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why not go over there and engage with them instead of some who just post stupid comments …. Other than Grendel nobody posts anything remotely constructive.

Out of interest have you posted anything constructive that’s been shot down as jealousy ? …. Give us an example ?
 
Sky Blue Pete

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
Dubai-Dodger said:
why not go over there and engage with them instead of some who just post stupid comments …. Other than Grendel nobody posts anything remotely constructive.

Out of interest have you posted anything constructive that’s been shot down as jealousy ? …. Give us an example ?
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What made you start posting just before this information became public knowledge
 
D

Dubai-Dodger

Member
Sky Blue Pete said:
What made you start posting just before this information became public knowledge
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pointless me saying its coincidence but it is !

look at it another way …. What would I gain by posting if I knew anything? I’m just as appalled / concerned as anyone else. I’m a 60+ Wasps supporter not some PR guru or spin doctor.
 
shepardo01

shepardo01

Well-Known Member
oldskyblue58 said:
Not sure the WMRA lends to private companies to pay historical debt. Don't know for sure. I would have thought such arrangements are for capital projects.

If the purpose is to finance bond debt and repay investors or trade creditors then they should turn it down. No ifs buts or maybes.

Wasps get to live with the consequences of that. Administration at best looming in that case. They got themselves in to this mess No sympathy for rank bad arrogant management and all the smoke & mirrors they have engaged in. It stinks

Am still puzzled how they can sign off the accounts for wasps holdings & wasps finance which effectively deal with the bond but can't file other members of the group who are guarantors to the bond. Can't help thinking I am missing something in the bond details and amendments
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Could they request as part of stadium upkeep/repair? (Or something of the like??)
And if so, once received, is there any scrutiny as to where the money goes?....
Possibly similar to the grant for the new "5 million porch" to the entrance?
 
shepardo01

shepardo01

Well-Known Member
oldskyblue58 said:
I wonder if Appleton or someone of his ilk is going to rock up and miraculously wasps regain the lease and business via administration and get rid of millions in debt at some point🤔
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Sure I read somewhere that there is no Rugby related penalty for going into admin... would that therefore be desirable for them to do?... question - what would implications be OSB?
 
lifeskyblue

lifeskyblue

Well-Known Member
Can’t say as I understand all/many of the implications of all this but surely it must be of grave concern to all wasps supporters (and I do feel for those who followed them from Wycombe/London), those (like the council) who have invested heavily (and tied themselves to a ‘non local’ sport club) and to us (are there implications for rent, future of stadium etc)


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chiefdave

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
Dubai-Dodger said:
why not go over there and engage with them instead of some who just post stupid comments …. Other than Grendel nobody posts anything remotely constructive.

Out of interest have you posted anything constructive that’s been shot down as jealousy ? …. Give us an example ?
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Been there done that and it didn't get a very positive response! Back when this all began there was a lot of incorrect information about the Ricoh saga being posted on there, to be fair it was a very long and complicated situation that most of us on here who have been following closely struggle to keep track of. Tried posting some background to correct some of the common mistakes but was immediately shot down. Managed a couple of posts before being banned.
 
duffer

duffer

Well-Known Member
oldskyblue58 said:
I wonder if Appleton or someone of his ilk is going to rock up and miraculously wasps regain the lease and business via administration and get rid of millions in debt at some point🤔
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It's almost like being here makes one cynical, OSB. :)

I don't quite know how Wasps dig themselves out of this hole, but if you were going to go into administration, doing it whilst the RFU has effectively ring-fenced the top division wouldn't be entirely bad timing.
 
oldskyblue58

oldskyblue58

CCFC Finance Director
shepardo01 said:
Sure I read somewhere that there is no Rugby related penalty for going into admin... would that therefore be desirable for them to do?... question - what would implications be OSB?
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I wouldn't worry about regulations even if there are any. Have assets moved from acl part of the group? If so I think we all have seen how that plays out. There is no football creditors rule in this case.

Not saying it is happening or will happen I simply don't know. But remember how ccfch and ccfc Ltd went. They never filed accounts either .....

I am probably wrong. And come 30th of June the bond is repaid and wasps announce stadium capital renovation work of 13m ..... ok maybe not

Are there covenants in the sale agreement etc that means CCC are on the hook for a chunk of the renovation costs ?
 
stupot07

stupot07

Well-Known Member
I said at the start when they were initially raising the bonds, that they had been greedy and bitten off more than they could chew with the £35m. They didn't need £35m, they only needed c£15m to pay odd the loan. Richardson paid himself £10m back then they spunked the other £10m for very little return.

They'd have been better off keeping the ACL loan, now they are having to borrow pretty much the same amount to keep them afloat.

The WMA would be ridiculous to give them the loan, you're giving someone £35m in debt to the bonds, plus their addition debts another £13m to add to the debt. If they were a football club they would be forced into administration, why do wasps think they are so special

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steveo1987

steveo1987

Well-Known Member
Dubai-Dodger said:
pointless me saying its coincidence but it is !

look at it another way …. What would I gain by posting if I knew anything? I’m just as appalled / concerned as anyone else. I’m a 60+ Wasps supporter not some PR guru or spin doctor.
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We don't believe you, coincidence???
 
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clint van damme

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
stupot07 said:
I said at the start when they were initially raising the bonds, that they had been greedy and bitten off more than they could chew with the £35m. They didn't need £35m, they only needed c£15m to pay odd the loan. Richardson paid himself £10m back then they spunked the other £10m for very little return.

They'd have been better off keeping the ACL loan, now they are having to borrow pretty much the same amount to keep them afloat.

The WMA would be ridiculous to give them the loan, you're giving someone £35m in debt to the bonds, plus their addition debts another £13m to add to the debt. If they were a football club they would be forced into administration, why do wasps think they are so special

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I posted on here before but I had a bonus from work and I wanted to put it into something to stop me blowing it, there was nothing to touch the 6.5% they were offering.

Obviously I didn't invest on moral grounds but with hindsight it looked too good to be true anyway and it appears thats how its turning out.
 
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