Wasps finances 2016 (1 Viewer)

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NorthernWisdom

NorthernWisdom

Well-Known Member
martcov said:
The issues wouldn't be solved by a hundred grand from us. I see our value more as leverage for the naming rights ( we are/ could be very high profile ) and keeping CCC and the Coventry public ( voters ) on board.
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I think the last bit's key tbh, although (voters) not necessary.

At the end of the day, currently Wasps are trying to embed, so they can't afford to burn too many bridges. Even though we're tarnished, if they ended up being seen as kicking us out, it wouldn't help their cause.

If Italia's right ;) about JLR, then that and these accounts would probably make it almost certain that SISU wouldn't be dropping legals however. Ultimately, believing that scenario has us in a stronger position than maybe it seems... and once again it seems we're on a collision course towards MAD.
 
NorthernWisdom

NorthernWisdom

Well-Known Member
Worth noting as well, when comparing these to the Tigers accounts posted above, it's fair to say that Leicester is on a smaller scale, but seemingly more under control. Also worth noting however that Tigers are aiming for regular incremental growth, Wasps for huge expansion, so not unsurprising. If I were a fan of the club I'd rather the lower risk every time but... guess Wasps don't have 'fans' as such atm, so the larger gamble on quick rapid growth may as well be taken!
 
Liquid Gold

Liquid Gold

Well-Known Member
Nice to see all isn't rosy in the wasp garden. As mentioned before we can't read too much into these, next year will be the real test of how they're doing. With higher costs and lower attendances things could get very difficult for them. To me this says that, more than ever, ccfc fans need to stay away from wasps games and discourage any friends/family.
 
chiefdave

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
Will be interesting to see the response from the local media and those who would jump all over SISU for badly mismanaging the club if they posted similar accounts showing huge losses, management fees etc.
 
Liquid Gold

Liquid Gold

Well-Known Member
chiefdave said:
Will be interesting to see the response from the local media and those who would jump all over SISU for badly mismanaging the club if they posted similar accounts showing huge losses, management fees etc.
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The management fees are another reason why I wouldn't want them to take us over, madness to get rid of one hedge fund just to be saddled with the next
 
italiahorse

italiahorse

Well-Known Member
Liquid Gold said:
To me this says that, more than ever, ccfc fans need to stay away from wasps games and discourage any friends/family.
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"We can't afford it so nobody should have it"
The race to the bottom continues for a few !!
Just get on with life and do what you want.
I'm enjoying both Wasps and CCFC and want success for both.
 
Astute

Astute

Well-Known Member
italiahorse said:
"We can't afford it so nobody should have it"
The race to the bottom continues for a few !!
Just get on with life and do what you want.
I'm enjoying both Wasps and CCFC and want success for both.
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You are free to enjoy going to watch them.

Just like I am free to never give them a penny. And for their long standing supporters as well as CCFC I hope it all goes tits up for Wasps and they end up going back to where they should be.
 
oldskyblue58

oldskyblue58

CCFC Finance Director
not got a lot of time to go through all this, am trying to get my own business sorted in preparation for my second hip replacement this year so bit pressed for minutes in long days at the moment.

First impression, whilst the increase in turnover is impressive I would think there would be disappointment that the bottom line is not better than shown, as Moff said am in a way under whelmed if honest. Not the greatest set of figures I have seen but not the worst, with potential to improve. However I would agree with others on here that we wont see the real picture for at least another year maybe two so I doubt that they are too worried at this stage. They are still paying to embed and income has been affected by some of the renovations.

They might be at the top of the Wasps RFC income potential in terms of crowds but they receive something like 5.5m (set to increase) from the RFU guaranteed which is more than the CCFC total turnover alone. The target is to drive success on the pitch but to under pin that by "sweating" the arena more. Sports income is 38% of total income. Going from these and the 2015 accounts the F&B income for Rugby is close to £1.5m for CCFC £550k

Yes they have drawn down against the remaining monies as would be expected as part was kept back to pay the first 18mths interest on the bond. They have also spent nearly 6m on fixed assets in the year

Was expecting a new independent valuation this year but the bond prospectus is a little ambiguous talking about one in the last 24 months. That said with rising income levels and a 250 year lease was anyone seriously expecting the lease value to go down? There was no long term stadium sponsorship in the first valuation so how was not yet having it going to affect the valuation greatly, similarly no long term deal with CCFC.

Admin expenses (where in the accounts does it say management charges). Please do not read this £14m as management charges it ain't. The total running costs are £35 m (Direct 21m and Admin 14m) they are split in Note 5 to the accounts. Wages accounted for £17.4m spread between the various categories as appropriate in note 5

In both 2015 & 2016 they spent over £1m on legal and professional fees?

There are 7 directors and the total paid to them was 904k with highest single director £407k

The bond price appears to have held up so far following publication of the figures. I have seen far worse sets of figures though and there is potential for income to increase significantly. They do need to improve the bottom line though

Agree with Stupot how exactly could they afford to sustain CCFC in the Championship. If they bought CCFC now and continued living within means then we stay in L1 (at best promoted and then relegated) Wasps figures simply do not indicate the strength to take the risk

Sorry that's all I have time for
 
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duffer

duffer

Well-Known Member
italiahorse said:
The voice of reality ?
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Nope - the voice of self-interest. Just imagine how much more you could get make out of Wasps if you got pay-per-click on your PR pieces for them here.

You should drop them a line, maybe you could offer them naming rights for your signature line.
 
italiahorse

italiahorse

Well-Known Member
Astute said:
You are free to enjoy going to watch them.

Just like I am free to never give them a penny. And for their long standing supporters as well as CCFC I hope it all goes tits up for Wasps and they end up going back to where they should be.
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After many more years of trying to get it for nothing by stressing CCC and ACL. No thanks.
Try looking for a way out of this properly.
If Wasps can't afford it neither can we.
Can't believe people seeing Wasps failing as the way forward for CCFC.
 
italiahorse

italiahorse

Well-Known Member
duffer said:
Nope - the voice of self-interest. Just imagine how much more you could get make out of Wasps if you got pay-per-click on your PR pieces for them here.

You should drop them a line, maybe you could offer them naming rights for your signature line.
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You continue your pointless fight along with Sisu.
I'm hanging in there but most have gone because of exactly that..
 
NorthernWisdom

NorthernWisdom

Well-Known Member
italiahorse said:
After many more years of trying to get it for nothing by stressing CCC and ACL. No thanks.
Try looking for a way out of this properly.
If Wasps can't afford it neither can we.
Can't believe people seeing Wasps failing as the way forward for CCFC.
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If this was Grendel about now, people'd be all over him for trying to derail a thread with the same-old, same-old...
 
stupot07

stupot07

Well-Known Member
martcov said:
100000 a year at the moment and a bit of F&B from CCFC doesn't seem to be a game changer. They cannot increase our rent too much, there isn't a great deal to take from CCFC. If we go, they won't notice it in relation to turnover either. One decent concert could cover everything we contribute over a whole season and more.
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In that case there's nothing stopping increasing the rent significantly (£500k+ pa) as if we go, they aren't losing anything.



Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
 
italiahorse

italiahorse

Well-Known Member
Nick said:
If you didn't have a car park, you wouldn't care, and you wouldn't think you were schmoozing with the big wigs.

Pipe down.
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So because I make money from Wasps/CCFC I don't have an opinion ?
Don't stop you posting.
I'm with CCC on this in respect the Ricoh is at last reaching it's full potential. Unfortunately it's not with CCFC.
You continue giving Sisu oxygen but I won't.
 
Nick

Nick

Administrator
italiahorse said:
So because I make money from Wasps/CCFC I don't have an opinion ?
Don't stop you posting.
I'm with CCC on this in respect the Ricoh is at last reaching it's full potential. Unfortunately it's not with CCFC.
You continue giving Sisu oxygen but I won't.
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Last time I saw joy she still had your gifs printed out.

It makes your opinion a bit skewered doesn't it?
 
oldskyblue58

oldskyblue58

CCFC Finance Director
one thought I forgot to share

These results do not point to any great compromises available on income streams to keep CCFC at the Ricoh. In fact it may have helped CCFC if the Wasps results had been better because all events at the Ricoh will at worst have to breakeven that includes CCFC to ensure the bottom line improves. What will keep them there is that there is no real alternative anytime soon for CCFC. Just my opinion but CCFC are still between a big rock and a very hard place with no quick solutions
 
italiahorse

italiahorse

Well-Known Member
NorthernWisdom said:
What's your view on Wasp's accounts?
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Considering the risk taken by Wasps quite promising.
Incomes up big time but so are costs.
Incomes should continue to rise, based on current success, but without knowing cost details can't work out potential savings.
No great expert on whether the level of debt is containable within the business plan. Only Wasps no their projections.
It will be a few more years before the results of their efforts are known.
Still believe that CCFC best chance of survival (not success) relies on Wasps.
Other than that I'll wait for OSB58 and go with that :)
 
NorthernWisdom

NorthernWisdom

Well-Known Member
italiahorse said:
Incomes should continue to rise, based on current success
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Why would incomes rise? Atm there's a novelty factor and free tickets. Now if the free tickets work, then it might cause incomes to rise, but there's always a new stadium effect... in Wasps' case, there could be a new team effect.
italiahorse said:
It will be a few more years before the results of their efforts are known.
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At least on that we agree!
 
Moff

Moff

Well-Known Member
italiahorse said:
"We can't afford it so nobody should have it"
The race to the bottom continues for a few !!
Just get on with life and do what you want.
I'm enjoying both Wasps and CCFC and want success for both.
Click to expand...

People are doing what they want, making reasoned judgements on the Wasps accounts. Oddly the only person who isn't is you, who just repeats the same monotonous statement.

If I were you I would read Duffers post on page 1 of the thread, it raises a few issues that could potentially be of concern. I will presume you wont though.
 
Moff

Moff

Well-Known Member
italiahorse said:
After many more years of trying to get it for nothing by stressing CCC and ACL. No thanks.
Try looking for a way out of this properly.
If Wasps can't afford it neither can we.
Can't believe people seeing Wasps failing as the way forward for CCFC.
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Most people don't see Wasps failing as a way forward for the CCFC, but they still want them to fail.

If Wasps cant afford it, why did you persistently say they would take us over. A change of stance or a dose of reality?
 
italiahorse

italiahorse

Well-Known Member
Moff said:
Most people don't see Wasps failing as a way forward for the CCFC, but they still want them to fail.

If Wasps cant afford it, why did you persistently say they would take us over. A change of stance or a dose of reality?
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When Wasps buy us, it will be just the name and all Sisu's fault. They won't buy it yet.
 
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