Wasps going into admin & the impact on CCFC (158 Viewers)

[CCFC54321]

The key unknown is the extent of the remedial works required. If the £20m is in anyway close to being true then that's either going to be knocked off the purchase price, assuming it was worth more than £20m in the first place, or enough to put people off.

Unless there's a bidding war why would you buy knowing it needs £20m spending on day one when you could let it revert back to the council, have them foot the bill then buy it when it is inevitably put back up for sale?

Exactly

 

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[Grendel]

The key unknown is the extent of the remedial works required. If the £20m is in anyway close to being true then that's either going to be knocked off the purchase price, assuming it was worth more than £20m in the first place, or enough to put people off.

Unless there's a bidding war why would you buy knowing it needs £20m spending on day one when you could let it revert back to the council, have them foot the bill then buy it when it is inevitably put back up for sale?

Not really seeing that - the administrators control the process and need the best deal for creditors from the whole group including the PL share so bids will be taken and go quickly from there

 

[oldfiver]

Not really seeing that - the administrators control the process and need the best deal for creditors from the whole group including the PL share so bids will be taken and go quickly from there

The Administrators still have to respect the liabilities of the individual companies. So the Administrator for ACL will put a caution on WH but must first get best value for the Bondholders and Compass

I expect FRP may be appointed Administrators over all companies - but it is not compulsory.

The Bondholders should have organised their own Administrator to look after them!

 

[Bad Boy]

You reckon...?

No NW, as much as I'd like us to have our own ground our owners are never going to build one. I've never been so certain of that.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

No NW, as much as I'd like us to have our own ground our owners are never going to build one. I've never been so certain of that.

You're sure...?

 

[Evo1883]

Cov v Cornish Pirates

Let's be honest , coventry care about revenue , cosying to fans that don't have a club creates revenue , as per the post ..

The rugby family is a big load of bollocks

 

[Bad Boy]

You're sure...?

I'm not playing anymore NW.

 

[sotvtoday]

Can you explain how we progress if we sell some or any of our stars

Like the majority of clubs in the EFL you try and buy low and sell high I guess.
But that probably isn't anyone's definition of progress.

 

[sotvtoday]

Yes, I hope so, but as the worst case scenario for them if they can't get the sum they want is that we remain a captive high interest borrower, there isn't too much pressure to sell. They can just milk us for X number of years without a care as to which division we play in.

That would take them back to a situation where they are at war with the fans I think.
We think this is a an opportunity for them don't we? Or are we influenced by the fact that irrationally we think salvation is around the corner?

 

[fernandopartridge]

The option to build went from WASPs to WPS in a blink - a Richardson company

Richardson applied for WMCA funding but withdrew. But it could be part of any negotiation?

Was the land transferred to WPS too? The permission is on the land not the title

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

 

[oldfiver]

Let's be honest , coventry care about revenue , cosying to fans that don't have a club creates revenue , as per the post ..

The rugby family is a big load of bollocks

Not just about Revenues for Jon Sharp. He has genuine feeling for Coventry and citizens and wants there to be success in the City.

Big supporter of CCFC from the outside

 

[Sbarcher]

If I doesn’t happen, can I come down and poke you in they eye? In a fit of blind, disappointed rage?

In the land of the blind,the one eyed man is king.

 

[Sbarcher]

The following has some caveats
1) The figures are for 2020 so a long way out of date, but are the last published accounts available
2) The figures have been very much simplified and do not have any adjustments to show an ACL group set of figures. A group report would contra out any ACL group inter company trading and balances leaving only external 3rd Party trading and balances
3) in any sale or administration the assets are likely to be discounted and additional liabilities crystallised.
4) figures should be taken as a guide they wont be accurate to current situation

ACL Group
Individual company balance sheets 2020
		ACL Ltd		ACL 2006Ltd	IEC Exp Ltd	Totals
Fixed assets	61381​		0​		2343​		63724​
Current assets	15299​		21089​		6341​		42729​
Current Liabilities	-63971​		-9811​		-6658​		-80440​
Deferred tax	-5662​		0​		0​		-5662​
Reserves & shares	7047​		11278​		2026​		20351​
Inter company
Owed by group co	13601​				5787​
Owed by ACL to ACL2006			21089​
Owed to group co	14449​		9804​		2926​
Owed to ACL 2006 by ACL	21089​

It looked like in 2020 the net debt owed to other WH group members was £8m

That said ACL & ACL 2006 remain guarantors to the bond full or in part for £35m

Charges registered are as follows
- ACL 2006 Ltd charges registered due to Bond & Compass
- ACL Ltd charges registered due to Bond & Compass
- IEC Experience Ltd none


As for what is going on presently, I think that the stadium will be sold to an experienced hospitality operator this coming week. Sadly, I do not see ACL/stadium being owed by CCFC or SISU, but I could easily be wrong. It wont in its self change anything for CCFC for the next 8 years. We have a lease to play there and no hospitality or event group is going to write off that footfall off, quite the reverse they will want to exploit it to maximise income streams from the site.

Should a new operator emerge, of course they want us as tenants but would they be able to re-negotiate F&B, car parking etc and shut that part of our agreement out.

 

[Gynnsthetonic]

 

[tisza]

Let's be honest , coventry care about revenue , cosying to fans that don't have a club creates revenue , as per the post ..

The rugby family is a big load of bollocks

Rugby family waking up to the realities of being a fully professional sport and having to be a business first and foremost.
No doubt Wasps took some support and other income from Cov rugby. Seems right and sensible Cov rugby try and capitalize on the situation - they aren't responsible in anyway for Wasps misfortunes.

 

[Evo1883]

Rugby family waking up to the realities of being a fully professional sport and having to be a business first and foremost.
No doubt Wasps took some support and other income from Cov rugby. Seems right and sensible Cov rugby try and capitalize on the situation - they aren't responsible in anyway for Wasps misfortunes.

I agree

 

[rexo87]

Had quite a late but long reply from a local Councillor

Dear Ben,



Thank you for your email regarding the Wasps and the story covered by media outlets on Friday.



There are three essential points to cover on the topic. We are not proposing and never have proposed a financial package to bail out Wasps. To quote Councillor Duggins: “Contrary to inaccurate reporting by some media last week, the Council was never interested in “staving off the administration” of Wasps or bailing them out. So everyone is clear, there was never any intention of funding Wasps.”



A meeting placeholder was put in the diary on Friday for the sole purpose of updating Labour Councillors about the ongoing situation. The Friday meeting did not go ahead as it was not deemed as needed. ACL is a going concern, and we hope it gets a new buyer to enable it to continue to thrive.



Finally, we want to ensure CCFC can continue to play at the Coventry Building Society arena. The company that operates the Arena has successfully secured an extension to a notice to enter administration, meaning the facility could remain open. As Councillor Duggins said during Full Council this Tuesday, we hope during this extension a buyer can be found as the Arena itself – which has been a catalyst for regeneration in the north of the city – is a successful business that makes a significant contribution to this city’s economy.



Warmest regards,



Councillors Dr Kindy Sandhu, Becky Gittins and Ant Tucker

Sent from my SM-G991B using Tapatalk

 

[clint van damme]

'Catalyst for regeneration in the North of the city'

Has it?

 

[shepardo01]

Said before, lost track of who owns what..... BUT;
Are ACL not a "Wasps" company of some sort now... so any propping up is still supporting a Wasps arm of the business right/wrong??

Again, hope I'm not reading too much into the letter from the MP....BUT;
Sale of ACL and comments on CCFC remaining seem totally separate....

 

[ccfcrob]

Had quite a late but long reply from a local Councillor

Dear Ben,



Thank you for your email regarding the Wasps and the story covered by media outlets on Friday.



There are three essential points to cover on the topic. We are not proposing and never have proposed a financial package to bail out Wasps. To quote Councillor Duggins: “Contrary to inaccurate reporting by some media last week, the Council was never interested in “staving off the administration” of Wasps or bailing them out. So everyone is clear, there was never any intention of funding Wasps.”



A meeting placeholder was put in the diary on Friday for the sole purpose of updating Labour Councillors about the ongoing situation. The Friday meeting did not go ahead as it was not deemed as needed. ACL is a going concern, and we hope it gets a new buyer to enable it to continue to thrive.



Finally, we want to ensure CCFC can continue to play at the Coventry Building Society arena. The company that operates the Arena has successfully secured an extension to a notice to enter administration, meaning the facility could remain open. As Councillor Duggins said during Full Council this Tuesday, we hope during this extension a buyer can be found as the Arena itself – which has been a catalyst for regeneration in the north of the city – is a successful business that makes a significant contribution to this city’s economy.



Warmest regards,



Councillors Dr Kindy Sandhu, Becky Gittins and Ant Tucker

Sent from my SM-G991B using Tapatalk

I received exactly the same email today.

Almost as if they are getting ducks in a row

 

[shmmeee]

I received exactly the same email today.

Almost as if they are getting ducks in a row

Did you email the same person by any chance?

 

[oldfiver]

Had quite a late but long reply from a local Councillor

Dear Ben,



Thank you for your email regarding the Wasps and the story covered by media outlets on Friday.



There are three essential points to cover on the topic. We are not proposing and never have proposed a financial package to bail out Wasps. To quote Councillor Duggins: “Contrary to inaccurate reporting by some media last week, the Council was never interested in “staving off the administration” of Wasps or bailing them out. So everyone is clear, there was never any intention of funding Wasps.”



A meeting placeholder was put in the diary on Friday for the sole purpose of updating Labour Councillors about the ongoing situation. The Friday meeting did not go ahead as it was not deemed as needed. ACL is a going concern, and we hope it gets a new buyer to enable it to continue to thrive.



Finally, we want to ensure CCFC can continue to play at the Coventry Building Society arena. The company that operates the Arena has successfully secured an extension to a notice to enter administration, meaning the facility could remain open. As Councillor Duggins said during Full Council this Tuesday, we hope during this extension a buyer can be found as the Arena itself – which has been a catalyst for regeneration in the north of the city – is a successful business that makes a significant contribution to this city’s economy.



Warmest regards,



Councillors Dr Kindy Sandhu, Becky Gittins and Ant Tucker

Sent from my SM-G991B using Tapatalk

You could reply ( reference first paragraph )

While there is no intention of "funding WASPS" does that extend to offering any incentives to potential purchasers. So side stepping the WASPS issue

These could be financial or other initiatives eg preferential planning or land opportunities.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

'Catalyst for regeneration in the North of the city'

Has it?

Well there aren't redundant gas holders there anymore I guess.

 

[AOM]

'Catalyst for regeneration in the North of the city'

Has it?

 

[Philosoraptor]

Well there aren't redundant gas holders there anymore I guess.

Still trying to figure out how opening a huge supermarket and sports stadium leads to regeneration. Surely they would have the opposite effect both socially and economically, unless the benefits of having a successful sports team there outweighs this.

Don't understand how ACL can be sold to anyone who doesn't have a tenant for the Arena.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Still trying to figure out how opening a huge supermarket and sports stadium leads to regeneration. Surely they would have the opposite effect both socially and economically, unless the benefits of having a successful sports team there outweighs this.

Besides job creation, I guess they would argue that more secondary businesses could also have opened in the area to complement increased activity on matchdays and events.

 

[Philosoraptor]

Besides job creation, I guess they would argue that more secondary businesses could also have opened in the area to complement increased activity on matchdays and events.

Time to get a hot dog stand.

 

[Philosoraptor]

Besides job creation, I guess they would argue that more secondary businesses could also have opened in the area to complement increased activity on matchdays and events.

The problem is always going to be what happens if the primary business moves on, and that is definitely not ACL.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

The problem is always going to be what happens if the primary business moves on, and that is definitely not the ACL.

Well I don't think anyone was planning on CCFC to be exiled twice or for a failing rugby team imported from London to put the stadium out of business

 

[fernandopartridge]

'Catalyst for regeneration in the North of the city'

Has it?

No, the Tesco store and shopping park has been more successful in that regard.

 

[Philosoraptor]

No, the Tesco store and shopping park has been more successful in that regard.

Define successful?

How are small businesses coping in the local vicinity with the huge economies of scale Tesco has.

 

[Philosoraptor]

I do remember the big fanfare of a large, fantastic local library being in the Arena Shopping Centre. Until it wasn't.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I do remember the big fanfare of a large, fantastic local library being in the Arena Shopping Centre. Until it wasn't.

It's still there. Just don't spill any piri piri on the books.

 

[Philosoraptor]

It's still there. Just don't spill any piri piri on the books.

The wonders of Kevin Maton strikes again.

Nandos for a library. That's regeneration for you.

 

[shmmeee]

No, the Tesco store and shopping park has been more successful in that regard.

They are one and the same TBF