Wasps going into admin & the impact on CCFC (9 Viewers)

[The Philosopher]

Anyway, I’m enjoying Grendel’s increasingly bizarre posts.

 

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[Deleted member 5849]

Of course:

Name one club owner that wouldn’t?

It’s like saying who wouldn’t want a brand new car for a tenner?

The point?

If you're from a school of philosophy above that of Katie Price, I'm sure you can work out the point.

 

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

Of course:

Name one club owner that wouldn’t?

It’s like saying who wouldn’t want a brand new car for a tenner?

The point?

The point being they’re not generally bothered about what league we’re in. They’ll put in minimal funding to ensure they don’t lose money.

PL money would be nice, but they’re not willing to put the investment to get there

 

[The Philosopher]

Fucking hell nobody said they want relegation. the championship is a step too far for them. The Costs involved give them headaches.

they don’t give a shit what league we’re in as long as the costs are down

they operate a model which is easier in league one/two - The championship requires a lot more investment - that they’re not willing to provide.

Why get angry?

I’m sure we all know that SISU want to get promoted on minimal budget.

We saw in Champ return Season 1 that by Xmas whilst we were struggling SISU allowed the getting in of players like Matty James (not cheap) to steady the ship.

I’ve not and likely never will say that SISU are good owners but some of the things said implying that they’d rather be in L1 because the model works better is frankly bonkers.

 

[Grendel]

Clueless,

They’ve underwritten losses.

It’s like saying that using your credit card isn’t spending money.

We’d all like them to have spent more, but they haven’t.

Clueless.

The whole of the period from the promotion year to before the last set of accounts the losses have been funded by profit on player sales

The net investment is about £100 grand

 

[CCFCSteve]

3 offside goals as well wasn’t it. Beautiful.

Max MOTM

 

[The Philosopher]

The point being they’re not generally bothered about what league we’re in. They’ll put in minimal funding to ensure they don’t lose money.

PL money would be nice, but they’re not willing to put the investment to get there

They’re not going to do a Derby but by the same token I’m sure that if we are within touching distance they’ll throw in some incentives and support.

Throw money around like drunken sailors? They did that. Didn’t work. They can’t and probably won’t do so again

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Why get angry?

I’m sure we all know that SISU want to get promoted on minimal budget.

We saw in Champ return Season 1 that by Xmas whilst we were struggling SISU allowed the getting in of players like Matty James (not cheap) to steady the ship.

I’ve not and likely never will say that SISU are good owners but some of the things said implying that they’d rather be in L1 because the model works better is frankly bonkers.

I think you have a problem reading words and understanding them.

 

[Grendel]

Why get angry?

I’m sure we all know that SISU want to get promoted on minimal budget.

We saw in Champ return Season 1 that by Xmas whilst we were struggling SISU allowed the getting in of players like Matty James (not cheap) to steady the ship.

I’ve not and likely never will say that SISU are good owners but some of the things said implying that they’d rather be in L1 because the model works better is frankly bonkers.

In the first championship season they had a relatively low wage structure and had cash flow funding via the EFL loan and transfer sales netting £1.7 million

 

[clint van damme]

The league is irrelevant?

They want PL money - anyone that thinks they don’t has no grasp of reality.

L1 is further away from the PL

I’ll say it again:

Clueless

Ofcourse they want PL money, but they want to fluke it, they don't actually want to support the manager to facilitate it.
If they did they'd have allowed Robins to have bought in more additions in January when we were in around the play offsbutclearly being hampered having a paper thin squad.

 

[Astute]

they couldn’t give a fuck what League that we are in

If they didn't care why do we have a decent manager and why did they bring him back after he left? They have sacked a few poor managers in their time with us.

 

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

Why get angry?

I’m sure we all know that SISU want to get promoted on minimal budget.

We saw in Champ return Season 1 that by Xmas whilst we were struggling SISU allowed the getting in of players like Matty James (not cheap) to steady the ship.

I’ve not and likely never will say that SISU are good owners but some of the things said implying that they’d rather be in L1 because the model works better is frankly bonkers.

You’re under the assumption they’re football fans. They look at CCFC as a business that’s losing x amount, since promotion that loss/expenditure has risen 10x.

it’s a numbers only thing. There is no ambition to run a football club.

As earlier on in the thread - if Sepalla gets offered what she’s put in, which is around 20m she’ll be gone. She was sold a pup by ranson. She never had any intention of becoming as involved as she is

 

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

They’re not going to do a Derby but by the same token I’m sure that if we are within touching distance they’ll throw in some incentives and support.

Throw money around like drunken sailors? They did that. Didn’t work. They can’t and probably won’t do so again

They had that chance last year and didn’t

 

[hill83]

Timmy Fisher and The Philosopher’s Stoned

 

[Deleted member 5849]

God help us when we get to the actual in-depth stuff if this introductory element of CCFC finances causes such confusion...

 

[The Philosopher]

The whole of the period from the promotion year to before the last set of accounts the losses have been funded by profit on player sales

The net investment is about £100 grand

What ?

So you’ve picked a period of time - that they invested either by transfer or academy before that doesn’t count?

SISU have invested £100k

Utterly clueless

please don’t stop

 

[CCFCSteve]

Ofcourse they want PL money, but they want to fluke it, they don't actually want to support the manager to facilitate it.
If they did they'd have allowed Robins to have bought in more additions in January when we were in around the play offsbutclearly being hampered having a paper thin squad.

That was their time to gamble if ever there was one. When they didn’t it suggested to me they might be ready to move on if someone puts a sensible deal on the table (£Xm upfront plus upside on promotion and/or big player sales)

 

[The Philosopher]

Ofcourse they want PL money, but they want to fluke it, they don't actually want to support the manager to facilitate it.
If they did they'd have allowed Robins to have bought in more additions in January when we were in around the play offsbutclearly being hampered having a paper thin squad.

They kept the squad together.

Maybe they had the attitude of “you’ve had £12k / week for Waghorn - what do you want now?”

I agree we’d all love a huge spending spree, but at what cost?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Interesting seeing how Fisher behaves and speaks in the 'interview'

 

[Deleted member 5849]

That was their time to gamble if ever there was one. When they didn’t it suggested to me they might be ready to move on if someone puts a sensible deal on the table (£Xm upfront plus upside on promotion and/or big player sales)

tbf I'd have seen it as very irresponsible to gamble in that January. Building incrementally is fine. That being said, we then messed that up by reducing the level of squad in the close season, anyway!

 

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

They kept the squad together.

Maybe they had the attitude of “you’ve had £12k / week for Waghorn - what do you want now?”

I agree we’d all love a huge spending spree, but at what cost?

You literally just said “if we are within touching distance they’ll throw in some incentives and support.”

 

[clint van damme]

That was their time to gamble if ever there was one. When they didn’t it suggested to me they might be ready to move on if someone puts a sensible deal on the table (£Xm upfront plus upside on promotion and/or big player sales)

Well they supported Robins more in the previous January with Vik, James etc, (I've said many times I think James was a huge factor in us getting out of trouble), so maybe you're right.

 

[Grendel]

What ?

So you’ve picked a period of time - that they invested either by transfer or academy before that doesn’t count?

SISU have invested £100k

Utterly clueless

please don’t stop

Transfer sales aren’t investments - if you take transfer profit it’s funded operational losses. That’s not funding

The loans in have been paid back and they extracted nearly £2 million in 2019 for investor returns

Net money in is exactly what I’ve said

Total investment OSB estimates at £32 m most of which stopped in 2012 - the capital and interest residing in the club at the last accounts stands at £20 million

 

[clint van damme]

tbf I'd have seen it as very irresponsible to gamble in that January. Building incrementally is fine. That being said, we then messed that up by reducing the level of squad in the close season, anyway!

But we could have used the loan market as we did the previous January so not giving us any financial commitments beyond the end of the season.

 

[The Philosopher]

You’re under the assumption they’re football fans. They look at CCFC as a business that’s losing x amount, since promotion that loss/expenditure has risen 10x.

it’s a numbers only thing. There is no ambition to run a football club.

As earlier on in the thread - if Sepalla gets offered what she’s put in, which is around 20m she’ll be gone. She was sold a pup by ranson. She never had any intention of becoming as involved as she is

Yes, I agree.

Sold a pup, Ranson, didn’t want to run a club.

100% right.

As I’ve said, whatever they’ve put in (£20m, 30,40 whatever), because of the way they’ve funded / borrowed stands them at more, so it’ll be difficult to accept a low bid.

That they want us relegated?

No.

A club with a chance of PL promotion has a wider selection of buyers than one that is in the PL (too expensive) or L1 (too far to go to get serious reward)

 

[Deleted member 5849]

But we could have used the loan market as we did the previous January so not giving us any financial commitments beyond the end of the season.

Loans always a risk, especially wrt team spirit, and they can come with fat wages too. Plus we've seen with Matt Jansen and co how a loan can really lift a team(!)

Plus a loanee playing stops a member of our squad gaining some more experience and developing further. See, for example, Eccles, who'd have undoubtedly played more end of last season without injury issues.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

They kept the squad together.

Maybe they had the attitude of “you’ve had £12k / week for Waghorn - what do you want now?”

I agree we’d all love a huge spending spree, but at what cost?

'They' told Boddy that they refused to provide any extra short term funding to help our August cashflow problems. That resulted in him punting Hyam on the cheap to Blackburn because otherwise we simply wouldn't have been able to pay wages.

My arse do they care about the footballing side of things-they couldn't give a flying fuck

 

[clint van damme]

They kept the squad together.

Maybe they had the attitude of “you’ve had £12k / week for Waghorn - what do you want now?”

I agree we’d all love a huge spending spree, but at what cost?

As many of us said last winter, we weren't advocating spanking 10 million but we could have used the loan market. The drop off was wholly predictable, the squad looked knackered and we had a bench with players on that Robins clearly would only use as a last resort.

 

[shmmeee]

For me the last two windows have been markedly different from the ones before. All we needed was Jan/Summer windows like the last few years: a couple of loans in Jan, slowly improving the quality of the squad in the summer. Neither happened.

 

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

Yes, I agree.

Sold a pup, Ranson, didn’t want to run a club.

100% right.

As I’ve said, whatever they’ve put in (£20m, 30,40 whatever), because of the way they’ve funded / borrowed stands them at more, so it’ll be difficult to accept a low bid.

That they want us relegated?

No.

A club with a chance of PL promotion has a wider selection of buyers than one that is in the PL (too expensive) or L1 (too far to go to get serious reward)

Again - you’re assuming they’re football people. They are not.

and again - nobody has said they want a relegation - what they want is lower costs…if that means relegation -they ain’t bothered.

if they Do get relegated they’ll cut the costs and bubble along until they decide to close or an idiot takes a punt

 

[clint van damme]

Loans always a risk, especially wrt team spirit, and they can come with fat wages too. Plus we've seen with Matt Jansen and co how a loan can really lift a team(!)

Plus a loanee playing stops a member of our squad gaining some more experience and developing further. See, for example, Eccles, who'd have undoubtedly played more end of last season without injury issues.

But the previous January we used the loan market to great affect.
If they really wanted to help Robins get to the EPL then surely they could have gone down that route again?

And in general, our loans have been fairly decent since Robins came back where as in the days of Jansen et al they were pretty much all shit!

 

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

But the previous January we used the loan market to great affect.
If they really wanted to help Robins get to the EPL then surely they could have gone down that route again?

And in general, our loans have been fairly decent since Robins came back where as in the days of Jansen et al they were pretty much all shit!

*cough* Maguire-Drew, *cough* Josh Barrett*

 

[Deleted member 5849]

*cough* Maguire-Drew, *cough* Josh Barrett*

Who could forget David Meyler lighting up our team!

 

[The Philosopher]

Again - you’re assuming they’re football people. They are not.

and again - nobody has said they want a relegation - what they want is lower costs…if that means relegation -they ain’t bothered.

if they Do get relegated they’ll cut the costs and bubble along until they decide to close or an idiot takes a punt

They aren’t football people, never said they were.

They aren’t even business people, they are hedge fund managers.

With relegation comes lower income. Costs will fall but not at the same rate. Think how PL clubs need parachute payments to honour player contracts. We’d no doubt have similar problems albeit at lower numbers.

What would hurt is the value attributed to league status and minimum revenues.

Have a think.

You may even agree. You might not admit it, but:

SISU would be in a world of pain with relegation. To say that it would be better or at least equal is madness.

 

[clint van damme]

*cough* Maguire-Drew, *cough* Josh Barrett*

I did say in general!