Wasps going into admin & the impact on CCFC (2 Viewers)

[slowpoke]

I agree with shmmeee - SISU are so wrapped up in their own image as these cut-throat business people that they just cannot see the wood for the trees and play the game - the club's image and reputation is miles away from where it was 8-10 years ago and there would be a lot of momentum behind a genuine push to get the club a stake of some sort in the stadium.

You wonder whether the approach they've taken is just a cover for them not having a pot to piss in and being unable to attract anybody to invest / work with them.

A busted flush I reckon.

 

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[The Philosopher]

I agree with shmmeee - SISU are so wrapped up in their own image as these cut-throat business people that they just cannot see the wood for the trees and play the game - the club's image and reputation is miles away from where it was 8-10 years ago and there would be a lot of momentum behind a genuine push to get the club a stake of some sort in the stadium.

You wonder whether the approach they've taken is just a cover for them not having a pot to piss in and being unable to attract anybody to invest / work with them.

I partly agree.

Could SISU not just cash out some on their investments in other funds to invest in the CBS and show as an alternative revenue source (particularly) if they revalue?

“SISU broke” is an easy assumption. It’s not what they themselves are worth, it’s what they have accessible and how investing could be justified.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

I don't think anyone disagrees that SISU aren't a bunch of cunts, but this front page news which is extremely current is regarding the council.

They've behaved, and continue to behave, abhorrently.

 

[fernandopartridge]

I partly agree.

Could SISU not just cash out some on their investments in other funds to invest in the CBS and show as an alternative revenue source (particularly) if they revalue?

“SISU broke” is an easy assumption. It’s not what they themselves are worth, it’s what they have accessible and how investing could be justified.

I suppose though it doesn't really fit the sort of investment they'd usually make, it's a long game and they are not in it for the long game generally.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Not sure what I'm missing here, but why would MMJ miss Reeves?

Said something earlier about him having been good for the city. I didn't mean it in a bitchy way, but he is about the only one who's been positive about him!

 

[Evo1883]

I agree with shmmeee - SISU are so wrapped up in their own image as these cut-throat business people that they just cannot see the wood for the trees and play the game - the club's image and reputation is miles away from where it was 8-10 years ago and there would be a lot of momentum behind a genuine push to get the club a stake of some sort in the stadium.

You wonder whether the approach they've taken is just a cover for them not having a pot to piss in and being unable to attract anybody to invest / work with them.

I suppose a cost you pay for destroying your image over 15 years, alongside the business you own

 

[The Philosopher]

I suppose though it doesn't really fit the sort of investment they'd usually make, it's a long game and they are not in it for the long game generally.

Absolutely, but they’ve got their neck on the line with CCFC already - getting the stadium, revaluing and then selling the lot could be a short game.

 

[The Philosopher]

I suppose a cost you pay for destroying your image over 15 years, alongside the business you own

It’s bad news when you Google SISU and some wag has linked it to a funeral parlour in Mayfair with like 1 star reviews.

Surprised they haven’t rebranded (or maybe they have, left a shell, and trade on with a better brand elsewith)

 

[djr8369]

Until there’s evidence to the contrary I’m just going off what’s been said. It was an outline proposal that didn’t go anywhere. As I’ve said before if Reeves thought it would go anywhere then he’s a fucking idiot because he’s been told by the people who have to sign off on the decision it wouldn’t go anywhere.

There’s a long road between a three sheet proposal and anything the council could vote on. Gilbert is trying very hard to be Jeremy Paxman on this and the LOTO is banging the drum hard, but in reality nothing happened. Shit ideas come up, the issues start when they’re followed through.

I think there’s some justification in calling for Reeves’ head because he’s caused a political shit storm and made the councillors look bad. But I can also see the argument that he’s supposed to generate as many possibilities as he can for others to decide on their viability so I can’t see it going anywhere.

I can agree with all of that but part of the issue is that Reeves would even entertain it. While I can understand he might have to come up with something it was a ludicrous idea.

 

[shmmeee]

I can agree with all of that but part of the issue is that Reeves would even entertain it. While I can understand he might have to come up with something it was a ludicrous idea.

Completely agree. He seems to be claiming the details weren’t fully worked out in terms of council financial input, and as I say either way has caused a massive PR headache for the council. But I think he’s got enough plausible deniability to avoid being sacked.

 

[Nick]

I still think that the shit storm/offensive is still on hold until the outcome is actually confirmed.

In the dreamworld, there wouldn't be one because there's going to be a happy ever after for CCFC but as time goes on I think there is less of a chance of that.

 

[djr8369]

And I’m suggesting that Ashley became preferred bidder after ACL (whoever) heard that SISU actually had funding to bid for the stadium and would bid when the company went into administration.
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This is what makes me uncertain about the whole situation. The preferred bidder status and process is very opaque. Also why I picked up on the regeneration argument as it had been used as justification as to why MA is preferred bidder.

 

[joemercersaces]

Listen to the interview. 2:10 “the political administration of the council were very very clear there was to be no bailout, no funding directly into Wasps”

Makes no sense at all. Wasps were going bust. There either was or wasn’t a discussion in the council about a bailout. Reeves and Duggins want to say there wasn’t but if not how could Reeves say that the political administration were very clear on no bailout. Reeves and Duggins also both want to say that no money was on offer, but the Wasps Board voted on a proposal which included £30 million from the council. Somebody is telling porkies.

 

[slowpoke]

I still think that the shit storm/offensive is still on hold until the outcome is actually confirmed.

As long “big” Mike is successful this Thursday they can shit and storm all they want.

 

[djr8369]

Completely agree. He seems to be claiming the details weren’t fully worked out in terms of council financial input, and as I say either way has caused a massive PR headache for the council. But I think he’s got enough plausible deniability to avoid being sacked.

Well quite. I think the problem is people have little trust in the council so as a whole they have little wriggle room for plausible deniability, particularly when it’s ‘there were no plans/discussions, well apart from these early discussions which didn’t really go anywhere or get as far as a vote (during public outrage as whisperings of support), but resulted in documents being knocked up and discussions within wasps’.

That’s never going to sit well with people.

 

[Jcap]

Completely agree. He seems to be claiming the details weren’t fully worked out in terms of council financial input, and as I say either way has caused a massive PR headache for the council. But I think he’s got enough plausible deniability to avoid being sacked.

You say it wasn’t fully worked out. Yet it was in enough of a state to put to the Wasps Board?? And to get to that state he would have had to discuss with the Hottiger folks no? Stinks.

 

[wingy]

Did OSB or his clients invest any money? There’s a poster “PUSB” (I mean…) that’s on the Wasp Bond forum with a similar style and syntax.

If so, be interesting to hear the thoughts of someone with skin in the game.

Well did Sisu?
I'd have expected them to , especially now for the current moment on the court steps.

 

[CCFCSteve]

Makes no sense at all. Wasps were going bust. There either was or wasn’t a discussion in the council about a bailout. Reeves and Duggins want to say there wasn’t but if not how could Reeves say that the political administration were very clear on no bailout. Reeves and Duggins also both want to say that no money was on offer, but the Wasps Board voted on a proposal which included £30 million from the council. Somebody is telling porkies.

Agree with this but also agree with Shmmeee, the funding wouldn’t have happened. Senior people should walk for even considering it though

 

[joemercersaces]

 

[SHUNT31]

What if SISU bought all the bonds when they were trading at 35p in the pound? Would be hilarious if they rocked up to court tomorrow and gatecrashed the party.

 

[SHUNT31]

What if SISU bought all the bonds when they were trading at 35p in the pound? Would be hilarious if they rocked up to court tomorrow and gatecrashed the party.

This isn’t a serious comment btw

 

[shmmeee]

Makes no sense at all. Wasps were going bust. There either was or wasn’t a discussion in the council about a bailout. Reeves and Duggins want to say there wasn’t but if not how could Reeves say that the political administration were very clear on no bailout. Reeves and Duggins also both want to say that no money was on offer, but the Wasps Board voted on a proposal which included £30 million from the council. Somebody is telling porkies.

The line is that the process goes:

1) informal convo with bidder and Reeves
2) bidder puts outline proposal to wasps
3) bidder works up proper proposal
4) council consider proposal

So he’s saying it fell at 2 and the council get involved at 4.

I heard CWR this morning claiming the only thing that stopped it happening was the board voting it down and that’s just categorically not true. At the very least it would have had to go to full council vote.

What it hinges on it what was said in that informal conversation. Did Reeves say “yea you can have £30m” in which case why is he lying to prospective bidders because that never would have flown. Or did he say “oh maybe we can help with some funding” and Hottinger went away and made up a number, in which case he probably presented it to the Wasps board as something it wasn’t.

 

[shmmeee]

You say it wasn’t fully worked out. Yet it was in enough of a state to put to the Wasps Board?? And to get to that state he would have had to discuss with the Hottiger folks no? Stinks.

Well yes it was a Hottiger proposal that they wrote.

It was a three page outline proposal, if Wasps weren’t interested why would you spend the time working up a full proposal?

 

[olderskyblue]

The line is that the process goes:

1) informal convo with bidder and Reeves
2) bidder puts outline proposal to wasps
3) bidder works up proper proposal
4) council consider proposal

So he’s saying it fell at 2 and the council get involved at 4.

I heard CWR this morning claiming the only thing that stopped it happening was the board voting it down and that’s just categorically not true. At the very least it would have had to go to full council vote.

What it hinges on it what was said in that informal conversation. Did Reeves say “yea you can have £30m” in which case why is he lying to prospective bidders because that never would have flown. Or did he say “oh maybe we can help with some funding” and Hottinger went away and made up a number, in which case he probably presented it to the Wasps board as something it wasn’t.

But surely, in his position, Reeves should know that putting any proposal together where council funding was required, was a no go, thereby he should know better than to even entertain it.

as per what #CCFCSteve said earlier

 

[shmmeee]

But surely, in his position, Reeves should know that putting any proposal together where council funding was required, was a no go, thereby he should know better than to even entertain it.

as per what #CCFCSteve said earlier

Completely. And for the third or fourth time in this thread: if Reeves thought that would fly he’s a fucking idiot.

 

[Nick]

What if SISU bought all the bonds when they were trading at 35p in the pound? Would be hilarious if they rocked up to court tomorrow and gatecrashed the party.

It would but I think too clever.

 

[Nick]

Completely. And for the third or fourth time in this thread: if Reeves thought that would fly he’s a fucking idiot.

He is quoted as saying he thinks it had a good chance.

 

[shmmeee]

He is quoted as saying he thinks it had a good chance.

I refer you to my previous comment. He’s misrepresented it either to the board or to the bidder, or he’s a moron.

The fact that it never went anywhere will likely save him though.

Was the £30m confirmed or has someone taken “match funding” and £60m bid and put two and two together?

 

[wingy]

And I’m suggesting that Ashley became preferred bidder after ACL (whoever) heard that SISU actually had funding to bid for the stadium and would bid when the company went into administration.

SISU (and so were the NEC Group) were then royally fucked up before they could even bid.

Point is Shmmee nobody actually really knows what ‘process’ was followed and the real reasons why Ashley became preferred bidder.


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Yet it was reported that the bid was upped to overcome the NEC bid.
They should have been in there by this point

 

[Philosoraptor]

The line is that the process goes:

1) informal convo with bidder and Reeves
2) bidder puts outline proposal to wasps
3) bidder works up proper proposal
4) council consider proposal

So he’s saying it fell at 2 and the council get involved at 4.

I heard CWR this morning claiming the only thing that stopped it happening was the board voting it down and that’s just categorically not true. At the very least it would have had to go to full council vote.

What it hinges on it what was said in that informal conversation. Did Reeves say “yea you can have £30m” in which case why is he lying to prospective bidders because that never would have flown. Or did he say “oh maybe we can help with some funding” and Hottinger went away and made up a number, in which case he probably presented it to the Wasps board as something it wasn’t.

Just clearing the bullshit up for you shmmeee.



1) informal convo with bidder and council
2) bidder puts outline proposal to wasps
3) bidder works up proper proposal
4) councillors consider proposal

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[oldskyblue58]

Did OSB or his clients invest any money? There’s a poster “PUSB” (I mean…) that’s on the Wasp Bond forum with a similar style and syntax.

If so, be interesting to hear the thoughts of someone with skin in the game.

NO & i dont post on any other forum, there is enough comedy from people like you on here to keep me more than entertained

 

[wingy]

Absolutely, but they’ve got their neck on the line with CCFC already - getting the stadium, revaluing and then selling the lot could be a short game.

I just wonder what Sisu would have been left with back into their funds after offering 51% up to a £20M bid or there abouts, would that be enough for them?

 

[Philosoraptor]

I wonder if Reeves will be on the agenda for the 2.00pm cabinet meeting today?

Item 1. Our latest fuck-up.

 

[Mcbean]

I wonder if Reeves will be on the agenda for the 2.00pm cabinet meeting today?

Item 1. Our latest fuck-up.

Or in their agenda - update on the latest Arena opportunity

 

[The Philosopher]

I just wonder what Sisu would have been left with back into their funds after offering 51% up to a £20M bid or there abouts, would that be enough for them?

It’s a fair musing.

Any asset with potential decent resale value and reliable income streams can usually be financed.

I’m fairly sure they can move / raise money even though atm financial products are all up in the air.

Short answer: SISU could find the money / a backer / partner on this I’m sure. MA has gone straight on the front foot though and his pockets are so deep it’d be a case of how far either party is going to have wanted to bid. MA would always win that one.