Wasps going into admin & the impact on CCFC (33 Viewers)

Liquid Gold · Nov 15, 2022

Must be hard being Shmmmee. He spends ages backing up the council on a particular point which, to be fair, is often reasonable given the current information out there.

Then the Council just go and do exactly what the rest of us thought they'd be up to anyway and he has to move goalposts again.

Sounds exhausting.

shmmeee · Nov 15, 2022

Nick said:
So in theory it's the exclusivity fee that gets it regardless of bid contents? Doesn't seem right.

Don’t think so. Exclusivity is to allow due dil to be performed once a bid is accepted isn’t it? So you’re not wasting money on surveyors or whatever only to be outbid.

ACL NOI was 18th October, by 1st Nov we were told 4 interested parties but only two bids, then Ashley was confirmed as preferred bidder with exclusivity.

So is Gilbert saying the other bid was higher? Or that other bids have come in since then? Or that there was a third bid we didn’t know about? I thought NEC and Ashley were confirmed as the two bids.

It sounds from that post that he’s saying the exclusivity is preventing other bids, well yeah, that’s what it’s there for.

Sky Blue Pete · Nov 15, 2022

Nick said:
ACL isn't in Administration yet though.

Wonder if it's a lower bid but better for Richardson personally.....

I’m sure wasps and Derek involved

oldskyblue58 · Nov 15, 2022

An exclusivity clause is neither illegal, unusual or unreasonable especially in privately owned companies. I assume for exclusivity to be active then the fee has been paid. Administrators or whoever running the process are required contractually to block other interest, better or otherwise. Such a fee is also an indication of serious funded interest isn't it?

The story isn't the exclusivity clause Ashley has and his offer but how the hell Richardson & wasps got the bondholders in the position where the bond is not covered by assets

Had bigger/better offers that stood up to scrutiny materialised before it was enacted then the administrator would have had to considered them. But they haven't it would seem, certainly everything we have been told so far is that other bidders wanted to wait for administration so where were these prevented better offers? NEC the only other serious bid or interest received, it seems, chose to pull out.

These bidders can't have it all ways, if they were not confident or simply playing a waiting game then they had their chance to at least test the administrators resolve and chose not to. Got no choice but to let it play out now. Wonder what value the bondholders will place on the assets in administration or worse?

Just stirring the pot by Gilbert I think

Come Friday ACL could be in administration on the verge of liquidation & closure. Or in administration, with bondholders being paid part and the stadium operational under a new owner.

Right now I am seriously concerned as to what lays next for CCFC. Hopefully those worries never materialise

But we shall see come the end of the week and next week

As someone previously said the Bondholders real claim is against Richardson, Wasps, the underwriters etc for being misled if they can prove it. The bond Trustees i am sure are going to have obtained lots of legal advice on whether they could challenge or not. If they get it wrong then they could be liable for any shortfall

Johnnythespider · Nov 15, 2022

If people were prepared to offer more than Ashley why wait for admin and not put in your bid before

oldfiver · Nov 15, 2022

tisza said:
Safe to assume the exclusivity payment is what is keeping ACL out of liquidation at the moment?

Interest payments that were due to be on 13th perhaps?

skybluetony176 · Nov 15, 2022

Bigger offers from who exactly? How credible are they? NEC apparently outbid by Ashley for pre-pack so assuming that’s correct not NEC. This local guy with his US backers? I might be doing him/them a disservice but I’m having trouble buying into that one, the US backer is being touted as a billionaire and yes he’s involved in sports in the US but there doesn’t seem to be any tangible evidence that he’s a billionaire other than here say. SISU and there new backer? I assume it’s the new backer who’s fronting the ACL takeover, if that’s the case they apparently have a bid on the table more than £17m. That suggests that they’re getting 51% of the club for more than £17m, is half the club worth that? Also where’s the money coming from? More debt piled against the club? That might benefit Wasps bond holders but does nothing to improve our position. We need more details on that like who, how and why.

MalcSB · Nov 15, 2022

oldskyblue58 said:
An exclusivity clause is neither illegal, unusual or unreasonable especially in privately owned companies. I assume for exclusivity to be active then the fee has been paid. Administrators or whoever running the process are required contractually to block other interest, better or otherwise. Such a fee is also an indication of serious funded interest isn't it?

The story isn't the exclusivity clause Ashley has and his offer but how the hell Richardson & wasps got the bondholders in the position where the bond is not covered by assets

Had bigger/better offers that stood up to scrutiny materialised before it was enacted then the administrator would have had to considered them. But they haven't it would seem, certainly everything we have been told so far is that other bidders wanted to wait for administration so where were these prevented better offers? NEC the only other serious bid or interest received, it seems, chose to pull out.

These bidders can't have it all ways, if they were not confident or simply playing a waiting game then they had their chance to at least test the administrators resolve and chose not to. Got no choice but to let it play out now. Wonder what value the bondholders will place on the assets in administration or worse?

Just stirring the pot by Gilbert I think

Come Friday ACL could be in administration on the verge of liquidation & closure. Or in administration, with bondholders being paid part and the stadium operational under a new owner.

Right now I am seriously concerned as to what lays next for CCFC. Hopefully those worries never materialise

But we shall see come the end of the week and next week

As someone previously said the Bondholders real claim is against Richardson, Wasps, the underwriters etc for being misled if they can prove it. The bond Trustees i am sure are going to have obtained lots of legal advice on whether they could challenge or not. If they get it wrong then they could be liable for any shortfall

The Trustees have been asking for funding and indemnification before they will do anything as per the bonds prospectus, those things haven’t been provided and so they have basically done nothing. The bondholders think the arena head lease is worth £50m or so, whatever the most recent valuation in Wasps accounts was.

Nick · Nov 15, 2022

skybluetony176 said:
Bigger offers from who exactly? How credible are they? NEC apparently outbid by Ashley for pre-pack so assuming that’s correct not NEC. This local guy with his US backers? I might be doing him/them a disservice but I’m having trouble buying into that one, the US backer is being touted as a billionaire and yes he’s involved in sports in the US but there doesn’t seem to be any tangible evidence that he’s a billionaire other than here say. SISU and there new backer? I assume it’s the new backer who’s fronting the ACL takeover, if that’s the case they apparently have a bid on the table more than £17m. That suggests that they’re getting 51% of the club for more than £17m, is half the club worth that? Also where’s the money coming from? More debt piled against the club? That might benefit Wasps bond holders but does nothing to improve our position. We need more details on that like who, how and why.

You would think now Gilbert has said that he has information about other bids of some sort?

MalcSB · Nov 15, 2022

oldfiver said:
Interest payments that were due to be on 13th perhaps?

I would have thought the interest payments would have been rolled up into what is owed to the bondholders, not paid separately - they are already in multiple default of bond terms so would make no difference. Someone has suggested the administration fee, sounds feasible.

While I am at it, why do some posters think the non-refundable exclusivity fee would be repaid if the bid fails? It’s non-refundable!

Nick · Nov 15, 2022

MalcSB said:
I would have thought the interest payments would have been rolled up into what is owed to the bondholders, not paid separately - they are already in multiple default of bond terms so would make no difference. Someone has suggested the administration fee, sounds feasible.

While I am at it, why do some posters think the non-refundable exclusivity fee would be repaid if the bid fails? It’s non-refundable!

I wonder what would happen if the court say "No you can't remove the charges from ACL?" and the bid collapses.

Surely nobody would throw over a million in if they thought that was going to happen and their money is gone?

shmmeee · Nov 15, 2022

Nick said:
I wonder what would happen if the court say "No you can't remove the charges from ACL?" and the bid collapses.

Surely nobody would throw over a million in if they thought that was going to happen and their money is gone?

If the bid collapses then it’s back to square one isn’t it? Subject to there being either enough money to pay the administrators or a bidder willing to keep ACL going while they complete. Or it gets liquidated and we’re back to 2014?

That’s my understanding of it anyway.

Nick · Nov 15, 2022

shmmeee said:
If the bid collapses then it’s back to square one isn’t it? Subject to there being either enough money to pay the administrators or a bidder willing to keep ACL going while they complete. Or it gets liquidated and we’re back to 2014?

That’s my understanding of it anyway.

Yeah but if the exclusivity fee is non refundable.

It's a pretty big gamble unless they know for sure they are likely to get the charges removed?

I think if Liquidated it's back way before 2014, again we don't know who, what or how people would then want it if liquidated. (Apart from byng sending his offer via Hornby Railway).

shmmeee · Nov 15, 2022

Nick said:
Yeah but if the exclusivity fee is non refundable.

It's a pretty big gamble unless they know for sure they are likely to get the charges removed?

I think if Liquidated it's back way before 2014, again we don't know who, what or how people would then want it if liquidated. (Apart from byng sending his offer via Hornby Railway).

I suppose the gamble is the company goes bust in the meantime or someone else comes in. I don’t know if it’s like a deposit that comes off the bill if you buy it or what. Reading this suggests it’s put in escrow, but then surely it can’t be used to keep ACL afloat?

What Are Exclusivity Periods And How Should They Be Negotiated? - Jonathan Lea Network

How exclusivity periods are commonly drafted and negotiated within the context of an M&A transaction.

www.jonathanlea.net

Calista · Nov 15, 2022

Nick said:
Yeah but if the exclusivity fee is non refundable.
It's a pretty big gamble unless they know for sure they are likely to get the charges removed?

Presumably not that big a gamble if you are worth billions

MalcSB · Nov 15, 2022

shmmeee said:
If the bid collapses then it’s back to square one isn’t it? Subject to there being either enough money to pay the administrators or a bidder willing to keep ACL going while they complete. Or it gets liquidated and we’re back to 2014?

That’s my understanding of it anyway.

They have said it’s liquidation if they don’t get the court order they have applied for.

Sky Blue Harry H · Nov 15, 2022

oldskyblue58 said:
Right now I am seriously concerned as to what lays next for CCFC. Hopefully those worries never materialise

In what respect ?

Nick · Nov 15, 2022

MalcSB said:
They have said it’s liquidation if they don’t get the court order they have applied for.

Sounds like something sisu would say.

skybluetony176 · Nov 15, 2022

Nick said:
You would think now Gilbert has said that he has information about other bids of some sort?

There’s nothing really stopping anyone contacting SG and say I’ve got a bid bigger than Ashley’s sitting on the table. Doesn’t necessarily make it A) true B) credible. Could be a Dhinsa character. I’ve got an £50m offer sitting on the table for example, anyone got SG’s fax number?

The little we know as far as the club is concerned and assuming he’s going to use ACL as a Trojan horse to buy CCFC I’m in the Ashley corner as things stand. I certainly don’t fancy the prospect of being tied into SISU compared to the Ashley option. What if this new investor they have is another Hedge fund loading even more debt on the club with wonga level interest rates? I struggle to imagine who else but another hedge fund would get involved as a partner with SISU.

People need to stop and think about that.

HuckerbyDublinWhelan · Nov 15, 2022

Nick said:
Sounds like something sisu would say.

It will be interesting to see how both SISU and the council proceed in the event of liquidation. You’d have to feel the council would feel the heat if the publicly stopped SISU again

Deleted member 5849 · Nov 15, 2022

Nick said:
Sounds like something sisu would say.

Thing is though, if we've already had to pay money to keep the doors open, and then Ashley has done the same since... it's not an unreasonable assumption that that's what follows.

duffer · Nov 15, 2022

fernandopartridge said:
I agree with shmmeee - SISU are so wrapped up in their own image as these cut-throat business people that they just cannot see the wood for the trees and play the game - the club's image and reputation is miles away from where it was 8-10 years ago and there would be a lot of momentum behind a genuine push to get the club a stake of some sort in the stadium.

You wonder whether the approach they've taken is just a cover for them not having a pot to piss in and being unable to attract anybody to invest / work with them.

I think that is exactly the long and short of it - I don't think SISU have sufficient funds to put in a plausible bid. Picking it up on the very cheap from admin was probably their only chance. (I've got a pet theory that they never really recovered from the credit crunch back in 2008.)

That doesn't mean that the Council haven't been at it again either though, as I've said, both things are possible.

Maybe the club would be able to pick up some external investment if the council offered us matched funding to the tune of £30m.

Ah, if only they'd have thought to phone Reeves, eh. (Edit: He could have given them a guarantee on the back of a beer mat without talking to a single other person, and they could have gone with it to another hedge fund who would have absolutely trusted it enough to join in with a bid for the stadium.)

Flying Fokker · Nov 15, 2022

Nick said:
Yeah but if the exclusivity fee is non refundable.

It's a pretty big gamble unless they know for sure they are likely to get the charges removed?

I think if Liquidated it's back way before 2014, again we don't know who, what or how people would then want it if liquidated. (Apart from byng sending his offer via Hornby Railway).

Fair chance there would be several shows in town.

shmmeee · Nov 15, 2022

Flying Fokker said:
Fair chance there would be several shows in town.

At the very least there’s Sisu and the other “credible bidder”, would NEC or Ashley be interested if it was liquidated?

MalcSB · Nov 15, 2022

shmmeee said:
At the very least there’s Sisu and the other “credible bidder”, would NEC or Ashley be interested if it was liquidated?

Doesn’t liquidation normally lower the value of what’s on offer? If so, bound to be some interest, just a shame for all the employees based in the then padlocked arena and us looking for somewhere to play in the meantime.

jordan210 · Nov 15, 2022

robbiethemole · Nov 15, 2022

We don’t need to play there for another 4 weeks, plenty of time to get it sorted

SHUNT31 · Nov 15, 2022

Anyone listened to the Dawkins interview on CWR?

If credible, it’s pretty damning. Says they had bid over £20m and agreed to match all timelines that were put in bud from Ashley.

Apparently didn’t even get to have a conversation with FRP. It was batted back immediately.

Says he has even emailed Martin Reeves and hasn’t even had a reply.

Said he’s willing to work with the club to obtain the lease also.

Of course could be bullshit but if true, it is shocking.

This whole thing stinks.

shmmeee · Nov 15, 2022

SHUNT31 said:
Anyone listened to the Dawkins interview on CWR?

If credible, it’s pretty damning. Says they had bid over £20m and agreed to match all timelines that were put in bud from Ashley.

Apparently didn’t even get to have a conversation with FRP. It was batted back immediately.

Says he has even emailed Martin Reeves and hasn’t even had a reply.

Said he’s willing to work with the club to obtain the lease also.

Of course could be bullshit but if true, it is shocking.

This whole thing stinks.

Just listening unless he says something later it sounds a lot like he didn’t bid before the exclusivity clause came in. Surely he knows this?

Edit: yeah he basically admits that. His whole line is “I’ve bid more so the exclusivity clause shouldn’t mean anything”. Is this guy serious?

Sky Blue Pete · Nov 15, 2022

shmmeee said:
Just listening unless he says something later it sounds a lot like he didn’t bid before the exclusivity clause came in. Surely he knows this?

Edit: yeah he basically admits that. His whole line is “I’ve bid more so the exclusivity clause shouldn’t mean anything”. Is this guy serious?

Easily clarified

CCFCSteve · Nov 15, 2022

shmmeee said:
I suppose the gamble is the company goes bust in the meantime or someone else comes in. I don’t know if it’s like a deposit that comes off the bill if you buy it or what. Reading this suggests it’s put in escrow, but then surely it can’t be used to keep ACL afloat?

What Are Exclusivity Periods And How Should They Be Negotiated? - Jonathan Lea Network

How exclusivity periods are commonly drafted and negotiated within the context of an M&A transaction.

www.jonathanlea.net

Id imagine it’s been paid on the understanding that some of it will keep the Arena going in the meantime. I can’t see where else funding would’ve been secured for that.

It’s usually non refundable if the bidder/proposed purchaser drops out. Not sure what would happen if the court/bond holders scuppered the deal. Some/all of it might have to be repaid out of realisations

rexo87 · Nov 15, 2022

What I don’t understand is how this exclusivity is even allowed? It does essentially mean that the admins can choose to accept whatever they want and creditors could lose out on so much more than they would get if there was a proper bidding process. That’s not really anyones fault though apart from the system!

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

shmmeee · Nov 15, 2022

Sky Blue Pete said:
Easily clarified

Its clarified in the interview. Gilbert aays “people will say you should have bid earlier and there’s an exclusivity clause” and Dawkins goes “urm yeah I suppose, but anyway I just want a transparent bidding process”

shmmeee · Nov 15, 2022

rexo87 said:
What I don’t understand is how this exclusivity is even allowed? It does essentially mean that the admins can choose to accept whatever they want and creditors could lose out on so much more than they would get if there was a proper bidding process. That’s not really anyones fault though apart from the system!

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

There was a bidding process, NEC and Ashley bid, Sisu and Dawkins didn’t. Unless someone can prove otherwise but despite being given the chance to they’re not claiming that. Everyone knew ACL was due for admin for two weeks leading up to Ashley being announced preferred bidder, it wasn’t a secret.

Sky Blue Pete · Nov 15, 2022

shmmeee said:
Its clarified in the interview. Gilbert aays “people will say you should have nodded earlier and there’s an exclusivity clause” and Dawkins goes “urm yeah I suppose, but anyway I just want a transparent bidding process”

Ta I only listened to the link

Wasps going into admin & the impact on CCFC (33 Viewers)

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