Wasps in talks to takeover Ricoh (19 Viewers)

skybluetony176 · Apr 23, 2015

torchomatic said:
And there we have it: It was all SISU. If the Council lie to the club and to the fans then it's not their fault. It's all the club that at fault. Doesn't matter that they were publically saying that we could own it while privately negotiating with another team. It's still the clubs fault.

This is what pisses me off. I would say EVERY fan blames SISU and knows what they did but only a very small percentage seem to be able to read that article and get angry about it. Truly baffling.

And there we have it: It was all CCC. If the SISU lie to the club and to the fans then it's not their fault. It's all CCC at fault. Doesn't matter that they were publically saying that we didn't wan't it and were building their own stadium. It's still all CCC's fault.

Who said I'm not angry about it? I just understand that the sequense of events that lead to Wasps taking over the Ricoh was started by SISU. It reminds me of a time when I was in a nightclub once when young with a mate who's short and slight built and some bloke threw an unprovoced punch at him for fun egged on my his mates. Unfortuantly for said idiot my small unassuming mate just happens to be a marshall arts expert so kicked the shit out of him before he even knew what had happened only for said idiots mates who had egged him on in the first place to start moaning what did you do that for.

Astute · Apr 23, 2015

lordsummerisle said:
Do we own the Arena then or are we not back?

Bit confused, because obviously it must be one or the other then?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-coventry-warwickshire-25728542

http://www.skybluestalk.co.uk/threads/41133-Ricoh-arena-won-t-be-sold-without-debt-attached

Or would you like a list of articles where Joy and Fisher keep going on about the unencumbered freehold?

lordsummerisle · Apr 23, 2015

Astute said:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-coventry-warwickshire-25728542

http://www.skybluestalk.co.uk/threads/41133-Ricoh-arena-won-t-be-sold-without-debt-attached

Or would you like a list of articles where Joy and Fisher keep going on about the unencumbered freehold?

There are articles where they say they would accept a long lease too.

Do you believe that Fisher won't bring us back to the arena then?

Despite us actually fucking being there?

Astute · Apr 23, 2015

torchomatic said:
And there we have it: It was all SISU. If the Council lie to the club and to the fans then it's not their fault. It's all the club that at fault. Doesn't matter that they were publically saying that we could own it while privately negotiating with another team. It's still the clubs fault.

This is what pisses me off. I would say EVERY fan blames SISU and knows what they did but only a very small percentage seem to be able to read that article and get angry about it. Truly baffling.

SISU got warned a lot of times that if they were not interested in the Ricoh they would listen to offers from elsewhere. SISU kept going on about the unencumbered freehold. CCC couldn't offer this. They couldn't afford to do so even if they wanted to. SISU then got 3 years....and up to 5 years for our club to play in Northampton whilst they built a stadium. They even turned down a free rent offer to keep us in Northampton.

I lay more blame on SISU than CCC. CCC were forced into a corner. But they couldn't afford what Joy said was the only option. I am utterly pissed off that Wasps ended up with what should have been our clubs. But an unbiased view of the situation certainly doesn't put most of the blame on CCC.

Astute · Apr 23, 2015

lordsummerisle said:
There are articles where they say they would accept a long lease too.

Do you believe that Fisher won't bring us back to the arena then?

Despite us actually fucking being there?

Are you saying that CCC should have called his bluff for 5 years and wasted taxpayers money whilst waiting to see if he was bullshitting us or not?

And if they would have gone for a long lease why didn't they ever negotiate one?

We are back at the Ricoh because the bullshit failed. The white elephant wasn't a white elephant. There is no new ground. They even got it badly wrong on how many of us would go to Northampton.

stupot07 · Apr 23, 2015

Astute said:
Are you saying that CCC should have called his bluff for 5 years and wasted taxpayers money whilst waiting to see if he was bullshitting us or not?

And if they would have gone for a long lease why didn't they ever negotiate one?

We are back at the Ricoh because the bullshit failed. The white elephant wasn't a white elephant. There is no new ground. They even got it badly wrong on how many of us would go to Northampton.

How would they have wasted tax payers money?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

Mary_Mungo_Midge · Apr 23, 2015

lordsummerisle said:
There are articles where they say they would accept a long lease too.

Do you believe that Fisher won't bring us back to the arena then?

Despite us actually fucking being there?

I find it incredible that still, you seem to think that the council are to blame for not 'reading between the lines' of Fisher's duplicity, and you don't point the finger of blame squarely at the bloke who would never candidly negotiate.

I suggest the council took the Wasps offer simply because they were the first party whom came along with an intent to deal, negotiated, and agreed. As opposed to buggering about. Where bewteen Fisher's 'average League One rent' and Labovich's 'unencumbered freehold' was SISU's chosen stance? Because that's quite some damn spectrum

Astute · Apr 23, 2015

stupot07 said:
How would they have wasted tax payers money?

Why act thick when you are not?

lordsummerisle · Apr 23, 2015

Mary_Mungo_Midge said:
Where bewteen Fisher's 'average League One rent' and Labovich's 'unencumbered freehold' was SISU's chosen stance? Because that's quite some damn spectrum

Is it somewhere between "Hell freezing over", and "Building bridges"?

Astute · Apr 23, 2015

lordsummerisle said:
Is it somewhere between "Hell freezing over", and "Building bridges"?

I thought it was somewhere between 'In the Coventry area' and Rugby myself.

Mary_Mungo_Midge · Apr 23, 2015

lordsummerisle said:
Is it somewhere between "Hell freezing over", and "Building bridges"?

Yeah; smart answer. The reality is, you can't point me to any evidence that SISU genuinely tried to negotiate, can you? They buggered about with Higgs; yet even the JR judge concluded they (as Higgs) had 'no appetite' for the deal.

They - like Grendel - thought they were 'the only show in town', and negotiated with duplicity and an arrogance associated with that belief. They wanted everything, for nothing. They didn't know when to stop turning the screw.

I kept on asking on here; what happens if this policy fails? Numerous times, I described as the football club as a chip on a game of roulette, with Fisher spinning time and time again, looking for the right number to come up. 'What if this fails?'; I kept on asking. Well, now we know...

Astute · Apr 23, 2015

Mary_Mungo_Midge said:
Yeah; smart answer. The reality is, you can't point me to any evidence that SISU genuinely tried to negotiate, can you? They buggered about with Higgs; yet even the JR judge concluded they (as Higgs) had 'no appetite' for the deal.

They - like Grendel - thought they were 'the only show in town', and negotiated with duplicity and an arrogance associated with that belief. They wanted everything, for nothing. They didn't know when to stop turning the screw.

I kept on asking on here; what happens if this policy fails? Numerous times, I described as the football club as a chip on a game of roulette, with Fisher spinning time and time again, looking for the right number to come up. What if this fails, I kept on asking. Well, now we know

There was several of us saying the same thing. We were accused of being against CCFC and being deluded as the Ricoh was a white elephant without our club playing there. You was always wrong if you didn't think that the SISU plan was the right one. And when it was all over......and even now.....those of us that saw it might go badly wrong are still wrong in seeing it coming and are just CCC apologists :facepalm:

Mary_Mungo_Midge · Apr 23, 2015

Astute said:
There was several of us saying the same thing. We were accused of being against CCFC and being deluded as the Ricoh was a white elephant without our club playing there. You was always wrong if you didn't think that the SISU plan was the right one. And when it was all over......and even now.....those of us that saw it might go badly wrong are still wrong in seeing it coming and are just CCC apologists :facepalm:

It's all crap. Higgs said this, ACL said that, The Council wanted this. I think Lucas wanted that.

What I can't see - ever - through all of the papers presented to court time and time again is any ambition from SISU to ever - ever - candidly try and do what Wasps did.

Yet people are quick to dwell on the failings (and there were many) of all of the other parties, and not hold primary accountability with SISU, who failed to ever, in all of their time, sit down and try and thrash out a deal which would ultimately have been in their best interests, and most importantly, the best interests of the football club. And now; well, now we're fucked...

stupot07 · Apr 23, 2015

Astute said:
Why act thick when you are not?

I'm not acting thick. Are you saying they wouldn't have been able to sell their shares in ACL for c£2.77m in 5 years time? ACL was paying back the loan. Neither higgs nor the council have had to inject money into ACL to support operating costs.

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Astute · Apr 23, 2015

Mary_Mungo_Midge said:
It's all crap. Higgs said this, ACL said that, The Council wanted this. I think Lucas wanted that.

What I can't see - ever - through all of the papers presented to court time and time again is any ambition from SISU to ever - ever - candidly try and do what Wasps did.

Yet people are quick to dwell on the failings (and there were many) of all of the other parties, and not hold primary accountability with SISU, who failed to ever, in all of their time, sit down and try and thrash out a deal which would ultimately have been in their best interests, and most importantly, the best interests of the football club. And now; well, now we're fucked...

They did what most hedge funds do. They turned the screw and took the piss. They thought that they were the only game in town. They saw what happens when you move a football club away from where it should be. Nobody else would do such a thing. There wasn't a club that would move to Coventry.

Wasps shouldn't have moved to Coventry. But they are now in Coventry. We should have our own ground. But we are one step from being homeless. I hate the name Richardson. Always bad news for our club.

What gets me is that no matter what someone does there is usually a line of people ready to defend them. The cause is always ignored. And what we have now is those that tried to help our club when it was needed are put to blame by some. Maybe they are not innocent of all charges...for instance CCC and Higgs.....but they didn't put our club where it is now. SISU are not to blame as much as some would like you to believe. But they had a massive chance of securing our clubs future but blew it for the sake of a few million.

Astute · Apr 23, 2015

stupot07 said:
I'm not acting thick. Are you saying they wouldn't have been able to sell their shares in ACL for c£2.77m in 5 years time? ACL was paying back the loan. Neither higgs nor the council have had to inject money into ACL to support operating costs.

It looks like the arena was making a loss from the time that there was no sport clubs playing at the Ricoh. Who would have covered these losses? If they would have turned down the offer from Wasps would the arena have become the white elephant that it was said to be? Who would have covered these losses? Those that you are agreeing with on this subject kept going on about the arena being a risk for the tax payer once SISU took our club to Northampton. Are you saying that they were wrong?

Are you contradicting previous posts you have made here?

SkyblueBazza · Apr 23, 2015

God struth are people STILL not accepting of the simple fact that SISU had ample opportunity to buy the Ricoh - but insisted on driving the hardest bargain they could. They have pretty much called everyone's bluff on every aspect. On that one - they got stung!
Unless Wasps go bust or buy CCFC - it's possible that we will have to find somewhere else to play.

PUSB

skybluetony176 · Apr 23, 2015

Astute said:
There was several of us saying the same thing. We were accused of being against CCFC and being deluded as the Ricoh was a white elephant without our club playing there. You was always wrong if you didn't think that the SISU plan was the right one. And when it was all over......and even now.....those of us that saw it might go badly wrong are still wrong in seeing it coming and are just CCC apologists :facepalm:

There was also several of us saying it wasn't worthess when others were. Funnily enough it seems to be the ones that were insisting it was worthless are now insisting that Wasps picked it up for a snip. I actually agree on the latter part but then i was never saying it was worthless in the first place.

stupot07 · Apr 23, 2015

Astute said:
It looks like the arena was making a loss from the time that there was no sport clubs playing at the Ricoh. Who would have covered these losses? If they would have turned down the offer from Wasps would the arena have become the white elephant that it was said to be? Who would have covered these losses? Those that you are agreeing with on this subject kept going on about the arena being a risk for the tax payer once SISU took our club to Northampton. Are you saying that they were wrong?

Are you contradicting previous posts you have made here?

That's funny I thought they made a £400k profit without the football club, had restructured the debt to be more manageable and had lots of bookings and predicted turnover double than the last season we were there (PKWH said this both on CWR and on here when challenged).

And of ACL were to have folded, ccc would have kept the freehold and could sell the leasehold to a new management company.

The only people that have seemed to have lost out are higgs but as soon as wasps bought the other half, that was inevitable.

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Mild-Mannered Janitor · Apr 23, 2015

martcov said:
Buy what? Stadium naming rights? New factory in Ansty? Or the Stadium? And..... How do you know?

Rumour is the whole estate, lease for Wasps and ownership rights from Local Authority.

Just rumour but one that grows but could be just wishful thinking but there is something more to be abbounced by JLR over and above the current whitley expansion deal.

torchomatic · Apr 23, 2015

And strangely it suddenly didn't matter that Higgs weren't getting lots of cash for their shares. Not a peep about "poor orphans" or "ripping off a charity" then.

stupot07 said:
The only people that have seemed to have lost out are higgs but as soon as wasps bought the other half, that was inevitable.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

Grendel · Apr 23, 2015

torchomatic said:
And strangely it suddenly didn't matter that Higgs weren't getting lots of cash for their shares. Not a peep about "poor orphans" or "ripping off a charity" then.

I assume the charity commission are investigating the sale at a reduced price - especially as many experts on here reckoned £6 million for their half share of a potential goldmine was a bargain.

shy_tall_knight · Apr 23, 2015

Grendel said:
I assume the charity commission are investigating the sale at a reduced price - especially as many experts on here reckoned £6 million for their half share of a potential goldmine was a bargain.

Grendel off again criticizing fellow fans for not being as financially astute as he and SISU are, look what SISU have managed to achieve for the club but he prefers to have a go at other fans. SISU have fooked up massively, their call their strategy.

skybluetony176 · Apr 23, 2015

Grendel said:
I assume the charity commission are investigating the sale at a reduced price - especially as many experts on here reckoned £6 million for their half share of a potential goldmine was a bargain.

I thought you were the expert and said it was worthless. Presumably you're expecting the charities commission to get in touch with Higgs and shake them by the hand in getting so much for a worthless asset?

Grendel · Apr 23, 2015

skybluetony176 said:
I thought you were the expert and said it was worthless. Presumably you're expecting the charities commission to get in touch with Higgs and shake them by the hand in getting so much for a worthless asset?

Well in its existing form it clearly was Mr West said as much and clearly was right.

Grendel · Apr 23, 2015

shy_tall_knight said:
Grendel off again criticizing fellow fans for not being as financially astute as he and SISU are, look what SISU have managed to achieve for the club but he prefers to have a go at other fans. SISU have fooked up massively, their call their strategy.

Your posting history shows a penchant for criticising fellow fans at levels I would never stoop to.

shy_tall_knight · Apr 23, 2015

If you mean fellow fans like you that supported the Sixfields farce, then yes but at the end of the day what you or I think is meaningless as fans because the big decisions were taken by SISU and they have got it so wrong yet seem devoid of your criticism but the naughty council are all to blame, seem to have got away with it from what I see, they are a public body there to be got at but everything seems watertight. SISU may have learned a lesson but at the expense of our club, be nice tend to get more - you should try it.

Astute · Apr 23, 2015

stupot07 said:
That's funny I thought they made a £400k profit without the football club, had restructured the debt to be more manageable and had lots of bookings and predicted turnover double than the last season we were there (PKWH said this both on CWR and on here when challenged).

And of ACL were to have folded, ccc would have kept the freehold and could sell the leasehold to a new management company.

The only people that have seemed to have lost out are higgs but as soon as wasps bought the other half, that was inevitable.

I thought that you had been saying about it making a loss without our club being there. Now you say the opposite as it suits a debate.

CCC would have lost money as ACL was a 50% share of theirs. The same thing as the outstanding loan was 50% theirs.

So only Higgs lost out? The tax payer lost out. Tax payers money went into the build. And the freehold doesn't have any value because of the length of the lease.

skybluetony176 · Apr 23, 2015

Grendel said:
Well in its existing form it clearly was Mr West said as much and clearly was right.

I'll take that as a yes.

Astute · Apr 23, 2015

torchomatic said:
And strangely it suddenly didn't matter that Higgs weren't getting lots of cash for their shares. Not a peep about "poor orphans" or "ripping off a charity" then.

Everyone other than Wasps and the legal teams lost out. Nothing to celebrate unless you are one of those.

torchomatic · Apr 23, 2015

I was just surprised by the sudden lack of concern for the Charity and those orphans.

Astute said:
Everyone other than Wasps and the legal teams lost out. Nothing to celebrate unless you are one of those.

Astute · Apr 23, 2015

torchomatic said:
I was just surprised by the sudden lack of concern for the Charity and those orphans.

To me it is the massive concern for the future of our football club that I am interested in. I can see how our club got into this situation. It started many years ago when we were spending money we didn't have and planned to spend much more to replace the home we sold. I just can't see how we can get out of this situation unless we can get into the Prem. And I can't see how we can do that either.

Grendel · Apr 23, 2015

skybluetony176 said:
I'll take that as a yes.

No anything sells at a price. People like you and dongle claimed it was A prime asset - like a mansion on Kenilworth Road.

The fact they had to then sell it for a price akin to a bedsit in Foleshill says one of two things;

They gave it away

Or

It was worth nothing on the open market in its structure at the time.

Which was it?

Grendel · Apr 23, 2015

Astute said:
I thought that you had been saying about it making a loss without our club being there. Now you say the opposite as it suits a debate.

CCC would have lost money as ACL was a 50% share of theirs. The same thing as the outstanding loan was 50% theirs.

So only Higgs lost out? The tax payer lost out. Tax payers money went into the build. And the freehold doesn't have any value because of the length of the lease.

So are you saying pwkh lied?

Wow

Astute · Apr 23, 2015

Grendel said:
So are you saying pwkh lied?

Wow

And as usual you read what isn't written.

Not worth a wow. Just a normal day in the life of a WUM called Grendel.

Wasps in talks to takeover Ricoh (19 Viewers)

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