Wasps losses and ricoh return catalyst (7 Viewers)

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shmmeee

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
You know if you let me know I’ve touched a nerve I’m just going to keep poking it 🤷
 
pusbccfc

pusbccfc

Well-Known Member
pusbccfc

pusbccfc

Well-Known Member
Nick said:
So he "has a general view of football" but must know everything because he teaches football finance at uni?

In which case, if he gets out stuff wrong then who is to say he isn't getting it wrong for other clubs because he only has a "general view"?
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I don't even think he'd claim to know everything. I've not seen anyone slate him until I came on here.
 
Nick

Nick

Administrator
pusbccfc said:
I don't even think he'd claim to know everything. I've not seen anyone slate him until I came on here.
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It's not even everything though, some of it is the basics to do with our situation.

Again, what's to say he doesn't get things wrong either accidentally or on purpose when it comes to other clubs?
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
pusbccfc said:
I don't even think he'd claim to know everything. I've not seen anyone slate him until I came on here.
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He makes sound byte headlines. For an accountant his inability to understand the relationship with SBS and L and the club and the debt statement was strange. I don’t see why he wouldn’t do any research at all unless it’s just about the headline
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Gregbant said:
Two peas in a hedge fund bankrupt stadium pod then?
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Many sports clubs are in the same position but most businesses wouldn’t still be around with balance sheets like ours or there’s
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Liquid Gold said:
Does making up playground names make you feel like a big man or something?
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To be fair it must be kind of hard being the council defender of the faith on here
 
pusbccfc

pusbccfc

Well-Known Member
Grendel said:
He makes sound byte headlines. For an accountant his inability to understand the relationship with SBS and L and the club and the debt statement was strange. I don’t see why he wouldn’t do any research at all unless it’s just about the headline
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Of course he does, that's how you get clicks, tweets, podcast views and sells books.

I've listened to the vast majority of his podcasts and CCFC have been mention twice. He's not interested in our situation. Derby, Charlton and Sunderland get mentioned every week and clearly spends time researching them.
 
pusbccfc

pusbccfc

Well-Known Member
Nick said:
It's not even everything though, some of it is the basics to do with our situation.

Again, what's to say he doesn't get things wrong either accidentally or on purpose when it comes to other clubs?
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I don't think he's ever fully researched CCFC. Mentioned us twice in a podcast that has been running twice a week for a year. It doesn't actually surprise me with his poor judgements of us.
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
pusbccfc said:
Of course he does, that's how you get clicks, tweets, podcast views and sells books.

I've listened to the vast majority of his podcasts and CCFC have been mention twice. He's not interested in our situation. Derby, Charlton and Sunderland get mentioned every week and clearly spends time researching them.
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Well he is as he’s done podcasts specifically on us. I doubt he’s any better informed on any of the others.
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
pusbccfc said:
I don't think he's ever fully researched CCFC. Mentioned us twice in a podcast that has been running twice a week for a year. It doesn't actually surprise me with his poor judgements of us.
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It would have taken one minute to realise Sisu had not invested £64 million in the club and also the stupid thing he said that 80p in the £1 was going back to them in interest payments
 
pusbccfc

pusbccfc

Well-Known Member
Grendel said:
Well he is as he’s done podcasts specifically on us. I doubt he’s any better informed on any of the others.
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Not on his own podcast he hasn't. We never get mentioned. The one time we did, he had to get Juggy on because got backlash about saying CCFC fans don't like SISU.
 
pusbccfc

pusbccfc

Well-Known Member
Grendel said:
It would have taken one minute to realise Sisu had not invested £64 million in the club and also the stupid thing he said that 80p in the £1 was going back to them in interest payments
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How much have SISU invested then?
 
Nick

Nick

Administrator
pusbccfc said:
Of course he does, that's how you get clicks, tweets, podcast views and sells books.

I've listened to the vast majority of his podcasts and CCFC have been mention twice. He's not interested in our situation. Derby, Charlton and Sunderland get mentioned every week and clearly spends time researching them.
Click to expand...

So you are saying he's bullshitting to get clicks and sell books?

If he isn't interested, why has he tweeted misinformation? How do you know he clearly spends time researching them but not us?

What you really mean is, he puts out headlines and you don't care if they are true. They sound good.
 
pusbccfc

pusbccfc

Well-Known Member
Nick said:
So you are saying he's bullshitting to get clicks and sell books?

If he isn't interested, why has he tweeted misinformation? How do you know he clearly spends time researching them but not us?

What you really mean is, he puts out headlines and you don't care if they are true. They sound good.
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You can bloat a headline without it being fake news.

He's clearly spending more time researching Charlton and Derby when he speaks about them twice a week on his podcast.
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
skybluesam66 said:
so about 15 months worth of Wasps losses (pre covid) over 15 years of their ownership
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Not exactly no the amounts owed to the owners are the same and wasps have a fixed asset
 
G

Gregbant

Well-Known Member
joemercersaces said:
Not sure that my sarcastic remark about Sandra Garlick picking out curtains for SISU’s new stadium makes me a part of the SISU Defence Force, but you know best.
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I used to feel sorry for Sandra for the time SISU caused her to waste with the SCG. However I think it may have panned out OK now she is a club employee, I only realised she was the other day, so hopefully it wasn't a complete waste of time
 
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S

skybluesam66

Well-Known Member
Grendel said:
Not exactly no the amounts owed to the owners are the same and wasps have a fixed asset
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mmm, the fixed asset if you accept the valuation is in effect fully matched by the long term liabilities
Also, the potential revenue for us includes
Transfer revenue (much lower in rugby)
Promotion (they are already at the top level)
Current performance (with transfer revenues we are not far off break even, they are up shit creak)

so they may have a fixed asset, but that is in effect fully mortgaged, and they have no real way of getting out of the hole they are in
I could buy a house with a 100% mortgage, I am no better off than i was the day before i bought that house. And if i am struggling to pay the mortgage on that house, i may potentially be worse off
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
pusbccfc said:
I neither believe or not believe it. My point is that's where Keiran Maguire has gone the £60 million figure from.
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He’s got it as he’s combined the debt in Sky Blue Sports and Leisure Ltd and Otuim and made a headline that this is what Sisu have invested - it’s nonsense and 2 minutes of analysis shows that
 
oldskyblue58

oldskyblue58

CCFC Finance Director
Firstly is it SISU who have invested or is it their clients funds ? I have seen nothing to suggest SISU are anything other than fund managers - who those investors are remains a mystery but they have given SISU the right to manage or control

Did some calculations a while back of what SISU had invested since they acquired CCFC came out at around £35m total in hard cash. The rest of this mythical £50m to £100m or whatever figure is thrown out that SISU & others have claimed, is actually derived from clever and repeated use of losses not hard cash.

However the club is Otium Entertainments Group Ltd not the SBS&L Group. The only way that the investors whoever they are in SBS&L get their money back is if Otium is sold as a company or the assets in the company at such a premium that ARVO/SISU master fund are cleared (capital & interest) before moving by way of dividend to SBS&L. The problem is SBS&L do not hold any charge or guarantee from Otium. Last accounts for Otium showed loans owing 8.8m with 7.7m interest all owed to ARVO and SISU Master fund.

I did some analysis on the wasps thread of the wasps latest financials. Do I expect them to go bust any time soon ? no.

Last analysis Keiran Maguire did on CCFC he took down. I believe because it was wrong in a number of areas, not least in the claims he made regarding the level of debt owed by the club and he got pulled up on it

Couple of thoughts.
- Wasps did not pay 5m for the lease that was for the shares in ACL - a totally different thing. The lease at the time was valued at just over £18m and that is what wasps effectively paid for the lease
- yes i would think the lease value had dipped, it is due to be revalued about now. However it will now be revalued to include CCFC as a key tenant paying a commercial not discounted rent. That should bolster the valuation
- everyone focuses on the income wasps will get by the CCFC return but just as important to them is the value of the lease - which has i suspect stopped its decline now ccfc are back. That will help the refinancing just as the additional income will
- nothing to do with day to day operations but the bond price seems to be recovering - nearly double what it was in October
- as for moving back down south - i just do not see it, how are they going to be able to afford that ? land & property prices are much higher and after clearing debts where is the surplus to pay those premiums not just on a ground but on the removal expenses of staff & players
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
oldskyblue58 said:
Firstly is it SISU who have invested or is it their clients funds ? I have seen nothing to suggest SISU are anything other than fund managers - who those investors are remains a mystery but they have given SISU the right to manage or control

Did some calculations a while back of what SISU had invested since they acquired CCFC came out at around £35m total in hard cash. The rest of this mythical £50m to £100m or whatever figure is thrown out that SISU & others have claimed, is actually derived from clever and repeated use of losses not hard cash.

However the club is Otium Entertainments Group Ltd not the SBS&L Group. The only way that the investors whoever they are in SBS&L get their money back is if Otium is sold as a company or the assets in the company at such a premium that ARVO/SISU master fund are cleared (capital & interest) before moving by way of dividend to SBS&L. The problem is SBS&L do not hold any charge or guarantee from Otium. Last accounts for Otium showed loans owing 8.8m with 7.7m interest all owed to ARVO and SISU Master fund.

I did some analysis on the wasps thread of the wasps latest financials. Do I expect them to go bust any time soon ? no.

Last analysis Keiran Maguire did on CCFC he took down. I believe because it was wrong in a number of areas, not least in the claims he made regarding the level of debt owed by the club and he got pulled up on it

Couple of thoughts.
- Wasps did not pay 5m for the lease that was for the shares in ACL - a totally different thing. The lease at the time was valued at just over £18m and that is what wasps effectively paid for the lease
- yes i would think the lease value had dipped, it is due to be revalued about now. However it will now be revalued to include CCFC as a key tenant paying a commercial not discounted rent. That should bolster the valuation
- everyone focuses on the income wasps will get by the CCFC return but just as important to them is the value of the lease - which has i suspect stopped its decline now ccfc are back. That will help the refinancing just as the additional income will
- nothing to do with day to day operations but the bond price seems to be recovering - nearly double what it was in October
- as for moving back down south - i just do not see it, how are they going to be able to afford that ? land & property prices are much higher and after clearing debts where is the surplus to pay those premiums not just on a ground but on the removal expenses of staff & players
Click to expand...

Well no it’s not Sisu at all anyway - is it £35m? I’d assume it’s really what’s it the AVRO fund or whatever he’s called and that’s it?
 
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