Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
The business case was permanent relocation of the team a long distance away from its traditional fanbase. If that's what it took for CCFC the business to survive, would you support it?
Yes, all three of them. Not sure if he will become a regular, but he was impressed by the arena and how the day was organised. Meeting up on Boxing day, so will know more then.
But the real issue is that a business that owns a team from our countries second sport can put the business case together to buy the RICOH, where as our fuckwitts, who could have had a fantastic business within our countries premier sport, could not organise a screw in a brothel.
Yes, all three of them. Not sure if he will become a regular, but he was impressed by the arena and how the day was organised. Meeting up on Boxing day, so will know more then.
But the real issue is that a business that owns a team from our countries second sport can put the business case together to buy the RICOH, where as our fuckwitts, who could have had a fantastic business within our countries premier sport, could not organise a screw in a brothel.
?? What is?
No the real issue is they were offers the whole ground for less than the club were told to pay for half and for sixfold the lease.
Or you could say they were sold the ground for less than we paid in rent over the first 5 seasons we played there.
Or you could say they've been gifted it for nothing as it is likely in the very near future they will receive more for the renewal of stadium naming rights than they have paid.
Or you could say they were sold the ground for less than we paid in rent over the first 5 seasons we played there.
Or you could say they've been gifted it for nothing as it is likely in the very near future they will receive more for the renewal of stadium naming rights than they have paid.
you are right. Shows that SISU followed the wrong tactic. They still are. Relationships play a big role in business. Acting like tossers, as SISU did - even if you think you are right - screws everything up.
you are right. Shows that SISU followed the wrong tactic. They still are. Relationships play a big role in business. Acting like tossers, as SISU did - even if you think you are right - screws everything up.
No the real issue is they were offers the whole ground for less than the club were told to pay for half and for sixfold the lease.
Oh and only because of the strategy employed by the clubs owners.
Still sisu out eh?
No they were totally right other than they assumed the council would always value local community sport
But that doesn't give CCC a green light to screw the club over. The club and SISU are not the same thing, long after SISU have gone the actions of CCC will still be having a negative impact on the club.
A key point of Fishers was the claim he kept making that ACL were reliant on CCFC and not performing well. Given the desperation from CCC to sell and the knockdown price they have sold out it seems, despite all their claims Fisher was wrong, that he may have for once been right.
Just got back . Good afternoons Rugby . Loads of Wasps supporters ,not many Irish. All the passionate supporters were split into groups all round the ground ,probably stifled the atmosphere somewhat. Bars had loads of staff to cope with demand . Sad for a city fan , shows how it should be when you look after your customers and have the balls to put your money where your mouth is . Well done Wasps . Feck you SISU
But that doesn't give CCC a green light to screw the club over. The club and SISU are not the same thing, long after SISU have gone the actions of CCC will still be having a negative impact on the club.
A key point of Fishers was the claim he kept making that ACL were reliant on CCFC and not performing well. Given the desperation from CCC to sell and the knockdown price they have sold out it seems, despite all their claims Fisher was wrong, that he may have for once been right.
Probably says more about the people you acquaint with,and just how bigoted and narrow minded you have become.
Sorry Dave but which way round do you want it?
If Mr Fisher was right then the council had to sell to Wasps.
If Mr Fisher was wrong in your opinion the Council did not have to sell and shafted the club.
TBF whichever you go for the club was asked to bid, was given a deadline. During which they were adamant they were moving on. They still are, even when they did bid at the last minute they were still adamant they were moving on even if they win the bid.
[/QUOTE]I've said before there's 2 options here:
1) CCC weren't being truthful about the current and future state of ACL (i.e.: Fisher was right) - in that scenario CCC have questions to answer as they have been deceptive.
2) CCC were being truthful about the current and future state of ACL (i.e.: Fisher was right) - in that scenario CCC have questions to answer as they have sold ACL at a very low price.
There was never a deadline to bid. CCC stated they would 'move on' in January but that doesn't selling the stadium. At no point did they say the stadium is on the market and we are inviting offers, if anything by repeatedly saying they had no need to sell they implied the opposite.
Seems to me when it suits peoples agenda Tim Fishers word is suddenly gospel to everyone, yet the rest of the time we're told he never tells the truth!
One simple question for CCC to answer. Did they offer the sale of a 250 year lease to SISU for under £6m. It's a very simple question that just requires a yes or no to answer and wouldn't breach any confidentiality. If the answer to the question is no then CCC are very much to blame for the club ending up with little chance of owning it's own stadium within the city.
Yes SISU have made the worst decision possible at every turn in this whole saga but that in no way justifies what CCC have done.
She said she would talk to anyone about ownership. She invited sensible and reasonable offers. She said she had been talking to others.
She said Joy had better meet her quick as the clock is ticking and events are going to overtake us.
She gave a deadline of January.
Do you think that meant in January they Council were going to start the ball rolling in something else but SISU could still come and talk at any point. Or do you think it was exactly as she said come and see me get your bid in otherwise it is going to be TOO late.
Please re read the above and tell me how many chances did the club need.
The question you should be asking is when the council said the freehold effectively is for sale but not uncumbered did SISU bid?
For some reason Wasps managed to bid. SISU didn't
I would accept your point if they both did and in they were similar bids and the council choose Wasps, however they didn't.
Once again one simple question for CCC to answer. Did they offer the sale of a 250 year lease to SISU for under £6m. Forget what Fisher said or didn't say, forget what Lucas said or didn't say. If they did not inform the club that a 250 year lease could be purchased for under £6m they are in the wrong.
Seems to me there are a number of people here who are failing to question CCCs actions as they are blinded by their hatred of SISU. You don't have to think SISU are in the right to demand answers from CCC.
I take it you saying the council should have in good faith agreed that deal with Wasps then said to SISU. Here is the deal we have agreed would you care to match it?
Do you genuinely believe that that us realistic?
Also with everything that has occurred in the past could they risk losing Wasps and then trusting SISU to do the deal?
Why in your book is it all down to the Council to do all the chasing after SISU ( who don't forget are suing them!)
Surely surely you can see that SISU were asked to bid they were given a deadline. They said not interested we are building a new stadium.
I you read all of the press releases by the two and do not come to the conclusion that SISU should have come to the council by January and declared that they wanted negotiations. Then I am not really sure what else I can say.
It is all there in black and white.
Where in black and white does it make any mention of needing to sell or putting ACL up for sale? It's just not there. Even if it was there for something such as moving in a rugby team from London I would expect a local council to consult with those it will impact on such as CCFC, CRFC and the local population.
I don't think you are on the wind up.
I've re-read it and nowhere can I see where it says they need to sell or putting ACL up for sale. I do however recall lots of comments about not needing to sell and ACL being a business that is performing fantastically well. So we come back to the same point, did CCC offer SISU a 250 year lease for under £6m. Show me where they have said they have.
The bit where she said lets discuss a deal about stadium ownership. What is it exactly you think she was referring to?
What do you think the bit about talking to others who have expressed an interest was about.
By setting a deadline. What did you think she was planning that would potentially mean a future without the football club after this deadline?
If it was just keep running ACL as it is, in case SISU ever change their mind. Then there would be absolutely no point setting a deadline?
If you wanted her to agree a deal with Wasps under commercial confidentiality then go to SISU and say here is the deal I have agreed with Wasps can you match it. Do you really think that would have happened?
Even someone from ACL around that OCT said it is up to SISU now to come in with their best offer.
I have to say I am gobsmacked you read all those press releases and don't concluded that if SISU wanted what Wasps have just done then they should have submitted a bid.
Do you really think saying we are building a new stadium was the way to get the deal done?
Why won't you answer his fucking question?
So we come back to the same point, did CCC offer SISU a 250 year lease for under £6m. Show me where they have said they have.
You seem to have forgotten to answer the question so here it is again for you:
Frankly I couldn't care less what BS Fisher came out with or what spin Lucas, or anyone else at CCC or Higgs came out with. The question above is the one I want answer, it's a very simple question that should be answerable with either a yes or a no and would not breach any commercial confidentiality. If the answer is no then, irrespective of any actions SISU have taken or anything any party has said or done in the past, the council and Higgs have acted in a absolutely disgraceful manner in my opinion and have damaged the club for decades to come, if not permanently.
Dave if you don't think all of what I posted doesn't address that question then I completely wasted my time.
I think if SISU had like wasps when asked came and put a bid in then eventually they would have got that deal. Knowing SISU they possibly would have some how got a better deal.
They never bid they ignored the deadline so no I don't think they negotiated a price like wasps did because they never came to the table. I can't be any clearer than that, If SISU bid when asked then yes they would have done. They didn't so of course they never negotiated that price.
I also genuinely believe that they would not have done the deal wasps did either ( just my opinion) I think they would have felt they could get it all much much cheaper which is why they never came to the table. Of course they did not believe the comments about other potential buyers at that point.
Once the terms of the deal are getting agreed with Wasps there is no way they would have allowed to council to pop over to SISU and say do you fancy matching this? Would you if you were wasps. You would say to the council I am interested but sign this tell no one. If you speak out the deal is off. (and I think the council would have accepted that)
A bit like when Orange Ken didn't get the promise to stay on as Chairman on a previous deal. It got leaked to the press and then the deal was off.
Side swerve and diversion and as usual no answer.
Dave if you don't think all of what I posted doesn't address that question then I completely wasted my time.
Clearly you have wasted your time as you have in no way answered that question. To be fair you can't, only CCC and Higgs can and they won't answer, to meet that indicates they didn't offer SISU a similar deal.
1) what do you think Anne Lucas meant when she said words to the effect of. I have contacted Joy Sepella asking her to contact me regarding doing a deal regarding stadium ownership?
I think she meant I she had contacted Joy Sepella asking Joy to contact Ann regarding doing a deal regarding stadium ownership.
2) what do you think she meant by this needs to happen by the turn of the year or we will move on and look at other options including the possibility of not having a football club at the Ricoh. The clock is ticking.
I think she meant, as she explained further on CWR, that resolving the issue with SISU was taking up a lot of council time and if an agreement hadn't been reached by January they would move on and leave ACL to get on with running ACL and CCC to get on with running CCC.
3) what do you think she meant by Joy needs to meet me if a deal is to be done that's what other people who have expressed an interest have done
I think she mean Joy needs to meet her if a deal is to be done, after all she met with people such as PK4. Of course this comment may have been made in response to the suggestion from SISU that Ann wouldn't meet to discuss a deal.
4) A deal can be done for the freehold but not unencumbered
I think she meant A deal can be done for the freehold but not unencumbered freehold. Of course as we know the freehold is of little value without being unencumbered or being held alongside ownership of ACL. I didn't see any mention there of extending ACLs lease to 250 years which in effect makes ACL the leaseholder.
5) Do you think SISU expressed an interest in the doing the deal encumbered? Do you think that once they did the council negotiated with them but offered a deal to Wasps that they didn't offer to SISU? If so I see your point if not I don't think you have a point.
Yes I do think they expressed an interest in doing that deal. I don't believe the deal offered to Wasps was ever offer to SISU and this is the key point. I also don't believe SISU were told Wasps had made a bid and invited to match or better it. For me those are they key points. I don't care who said what to who when, simply did SISU get a chance to match the offer made by Wasps.
6) If SISU just ignored the deadline and never expressed an interest. do you think the council whilst negotiating with Wasps were allowed to tell SISU about the deal that was getting agreed?
But it wasn't a deadline in that way. It was a if it's not done by then we'll move on and if anyone happens to come along we'll listen to them. It was certainly not buy it by January or we're selling it to someone else. I don't think the council should have entered any negotiations with the requirement that they could not inform CCFC, CRFC and the people of Coventry to allow for a full consultation. If they did agree to such I would expect Wasps to have paid a large amount for that exclusivity, I have seen no reports of any payment other than the £5.4m for ACL.
7) Do you genuinely think SISU would have done this deal?
I think if the council had said to SISU we have agreed a deal with Wasps to purchase ACL with a lease extension to 250 years for £5.4m will you match it they would have done so. If they were given that chance and chose not to then it's a whole different scenario and I would be furious with them but I don't believe they were given that chance.
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