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Wasps (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Citysince47
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Deleted member 5849
Guest
Was the short answer yes
I was expecting more an 'I don't know, do I?'
Rusty Trombone
Well-Known Member
When people post wasps that also incorporates ACL, when we say SISU we mean Otium Entertainment Group, when we say own the stadium it means owning the lease to operate, not the actual stadium. It gets confusing enough, please don't add to the confusion.
Ignorance only adds to the confusion. Hence why I decided to point out that Les Reid knew nothing other than what he was fed by Sisu.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Er....it was you who said wasps have taken over the loan - and yet seem to be struggling to provide any a evidence they have or the reduced payment period.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Doubt it. ACL will have the payments to make not wasps and if they go into administration then it goes to the administrator to find a buyer who could do a deal to reduce the loan. The Coventry taxpayer may be exposed here. I hope I'm wrong and they are not.
I believe that as well - judging by his stance on matters. But where do you come in? We already have people who claim to be in the know ( e.g. RFC ), but you seem to have an agenda .... What is it?
If there is a charge it will appear at Companies House against the borrower Company - I assume ACL
However I hope the Council also have a guarantee from the Parent Company - whoever / wherever they are
If ACL own the lease, but CCC have a charge on it, then surely CCC are protected? I am sure CCC will have security if they have made the loan. The lease is an asset - and as you say, was sold cheaply meaning it has a value at least higher than what Wasps/ ACL paid for it. The naming rights are also an asset.
So, if the lender is CCC, they will have a charge over the 250 year lease. If Wasps default, the lease reverts to CCC - is that correct?
Doubt it. ACL will have the payments to make not wasps and if they go into administration then it goes to the administrator to find a buyer who could do a deal to reduce the loan. The Coventry taxpayer may be exposed here. I hope I'm wrong and they are not.
In the case of an insolvency there is generally a clause whereby the Freeholder can cancel the lease
If the Receiver thinks he can sell the leasehold or needs to retain the lease to continue the business of ACL he can use his powers to retain. However he has to continue to pay the rent out of ACL income while in his tenure. He cannot defer this forever as he runs the risk of the debt becoming a personal liability. Unless there is a quick sale or the income meets the rent, loan and interest repayment he will disclaim
If CCC have not taken extra guarantees they could be negligent if ACL becomes insolvent
skybluefred
New Member
Nothing new in that then.LOL.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
The source of the rumour could be Wasps fans as they have been saying they were told at a supporters forum that the loan has been paid off by Richardson. Of course they also think they're getting all our ticket money when we play at the Ricoh so take anything from them with a pinch of salt to say the least.
Rusty Trombone
Well-Known Member
Why £20m?
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Jack Griffin
Guest
£14.4M loan and £5.8M purchase price.
Rusty Trombone
Well-Known Member
No, he's suggesting the security needs to be £20m.
J
Jack Griffin
Guest
Well I'm suggesting the purchase price is probably about the value of the lease, that accords roughly with the valuation stated in the JR provided there was an anchor tenant.
They are paying 20m for the lease ( taking over the loan is part of the price ). The security is in effect the lease. If ACL default, CCC get the lease - or the administrator finds someone to take it over and keep up the payments ( CCC will have to have a veto on that though ).
Rusty Trombone
Well-Known Member
All good info, but as far as old fiver and CCC are concerned they only need the lease to be worth as much as the loan balance.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Isn't it?
Seriously. What reason do you have to think that the loan has magicaly disapeared?
letsallsingtogether
Well-Known Member
Because Tim said so and he only speaks Gospel.
And they say people creamed over Haskill..
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
That does seem to be about the size of it. But I'm all ears Nick if its more than that.
Nick
Administrator
I haven't said it has, just that we don't know what happened with it
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
I haven't said it has, just that we don't know what happened with it
Do we need to know? Is there any reason we should be intetested in knowing? Its not like its the golden share is it?
The golden share, aaaaah the memories. What fun we all had hunting high and low for the little fella. I wonder where it is these days?
ccfcway
Well-Known Member
buried under the site of the new ground !
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
Are you actually happy that Wasps will be playing at the Ricoh? Genuine question.
Also to those who seem to want Wasps to take us over, would you be happy if they were to relocate CCFC with them if the Ricoh 'dream' didn't work out?
Do you think that 2 clubs using the same venue bring in more revenue than 1? If so, then the Ricoh dream has more chance of success with CCFC and Wasps. CCFC is going to be relocated to a smaller ground if it stays with SISU - at least that's the plan. I don't think happy is the word, but a sense of realism may describe some people's views.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Why would the Ricoh dream not work out for CCFC? I can see why it wouldn't work for Wasps but not CCFC.
Plus aren't SISU relocating the team because the Ricoh dream hasn't worked out for them and surely as a CCFC fan this should be your major concern and what you're questioning?
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lordsummerisle
Well-Known Member
Nobody seems to have yet come up with a reason why ACL had to be sold off to anybody yet.
Particularly for what seems such a low price.
Particularly for what seems such a low price.
Maybe it's not the in the councils remit to be involved in a stadium Management company and after the constant litigation it was probably in everyone's ( except poor old CCFC's ) interest to sell at a lower price in order to move on quickly
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Jack Griffin
Guest
That is because I didn't say it like you are trying to suggest & I didn't search for evidence on those points at the time.
Simon Gilberts article here http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/wasps-rfc-strike-deal-complete-8110467 states.
as does the Telegraph Rugby correspondent here As part of the £20 million deal the council and the charity will receive £2.77 million while Wasps will also take on the company’s £14.4 million loan from the council.
I said I thought I'd read something about a reduced loan period, I can't remember where or in what context, I'll look but as most of these things come with the cloak of commercial confidentiality, I think anything will be speculation, that's all I was doing, I did not present it as fact.. if I find anything that seems authoritative I'll post it up, but for now you can look at this RFC quote where he reckons the loan is 20yrs... now that is almost certainly bollocks, he knows cock all in my opinion..
And FFS you never provide any links to back up your statements, you are the one who should question your own unreliable and often hard to believe presentation of facts, in fact I have caught you lying before now, I well remember the time you made claims about the size of the crowd at Sixfields that were false and I published a photo taken by someone in the ground of a part of the crowd you'd claimed was much bigger.