wasps (4 Viewers)

[stupot07]

Stop moaning, we are where we are so lets start winning, fill the stadium and get on with it.
You don't also run the club shop do you ? They've given up hope as well.

I have a ST and go to games, so you're telling the wrong person. Perhaps you should tell the stay aways, that sisu are our owners "were are where we area, fill the stadium and get on with it...."




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[chiefdave]

Stop moaning, we are where we are so lets start winning, fill the stadium and get on with it.

Success would be fantastic, I'd love a promotion season but then what? Try and survive as many seasons as we can before finally getting relegated back down to League 1?

That's the best we can hope for at the moment yet a large section of our fanbase aren't prepared to admit it. They seem to think if we extend the current deal at the Ricoh indefinitely everything will be fine. It will only be fine if we're happy to accept being a L1 team that occasionally goes up to the Championship and more than likely occasionally goes down to L2.

 

[duffer]

This thread should changed to 'Jealous of Wasps'
Lets get CCFC back where we want them, Wasps can only help.

Wasps can only help by what?

Giving us a share in the revenue which they've purchased and obviously need?

Or is there some other way that they can help - it's just that you keep repeating this, but you don't seem very clear.

 

[chiefdave]

Giving us a share in the revenue which they've purchased and obviously need?

Or is there some other way that they can help - it's just that you keep repeating this, but you don't seem very clear.

Even if they gave us every penny the club generated, i.e.: all matchday revenues, share of naming rights etc, we would still be behind other clubs.

 

[italiahorse]

Even if they gave us every penny the club generated, i.e.: all matchday revenues, share of naming rights etc, we would still be behind other clubs.

Really ?
Even though we get some of those anyway without investing a penny in providing any of the facilities ?

 

[italiahorse]

Wasps can only help by what?

Giving us a share in the revenue which they've purchased and obviously need?

Or is there some other way that they can help - it's just that you keep repeating this, but you don't seem very clear.

We already get a share.
Just need to start winning and see where it takes us.
People will return if we move towards the top and they will continue to return if we can move up the leagues.
There's no other choice so lets do the best we can.

There is no doubt Wasps will enjoy mutual benefits and want us here so we just need to get the best deal we can.
I suspect though that Sisu are clueless in this and will battle CCC and Wasps in court and Wasps will just let us rent the stadium once the current deal is finished.
Mark my words, if Sisu don't come to the party by the end of next year, we will only be renting the stadium at a minimum rent whilst they take ALL the incomes.
Sisu will be unable to justify moving out if the rent is only £100K and our level will be set at League 1.

 

[chiefdave]

Really ?

Yes, it has been explained over and over again. Every club gets matchday and non-matchday revenue apart from us (Stockport I think are the only team in a similar situation to us), of course not all grounds have the potential to make as much as the Ricoh as the Ricoh has excellent facilities for non-matchday use but even the worst, most dilapidated grounds have functions rooms and the like that are hired out.

Even though we get some of those anyway without investing a penny in providing any of the facilities ?

There is a cost for the facilities, that's why we pay rent and matchday costs (not sure if they're still separate from rent)

 

[chiefdave]

Just need to start winning and see where it takes us.

Whilst we maintain large crowds for the division promotion to the Championship should be possible however it is not possible for us to be competitive in the Championship so the best we can hope for is occasional seasons struggling in that division prior to the inevitable relegation back to League 1.

People will return if we move towards the top and they will continue to return if we can move up the leagues.

Will they return to a level higher than the 20,000 plus we had when SISU arrived? Look at comparative revenues for championship teams from that period. Even with above average crowds for the division our revenues were at the bottom of the table. Unless someone is prepared to write a big cheque ever season how are you going to resolve that issue?

 

[italiahorse]

Yes, it has been explained over and over again. Every club gets matchday and non-matchday revenue apart from us (Stockport I think are the only team in a similar situation to us), of course not all grounds have the potential to make as much as the Ricoh as the Ricoh has excellent facilities for non-matchday use but even the worst, most dilapidated grounds have functions rooms and the like that are hired out.



There is a cost for the facilities, that's why we pay rent and matchday costs (not sure if they're still separate from rent)

We also get some access to matchday incomes without ever investing in ACL.
For Non matchday incomes you need to buy into ACL and TF has already said it's not worth it.

We do have it within our remit to generate our own non matchday incomes, but ......
Obviously a club shop, away from the stadium, with no stock is the way forward.

 

[italiahorse]

Whilst we maintain large crowds for the division promotion to the Championship should be possible however it is not possible for us to be competitive in the Championship so the best we can hope for is occasional seasons struggling in that division prior to the inevitable relegation back to League 1.



Will they return to a level higher than the 20,000 plus we had when SISU arrived? Look at comparative revenues for championship teams from that period. Even with above average crowds for the division our revenues were at the bottom of the table. Unless someone is prepared to write a big cheque ever season how are you going to resolve that issue?

So you keep saying.
We just need a winning team, moving up the league and lets see where it takes us.
There is nothing else we can do ........... is there ?

 

[chiefdave]

We also get some access to matchday incomes without ever investing in ACL.

You could argue we have 'invested' millions into ACL via a vastly overpriced rent that was paid for several years. Your statement illustrates exactly the problem, you say we get "some access to matchday incomes" which is correct however all the clubs we are competing with are getting all the matchday income so as has been said we are at a huge disadvantage.

For Non matchday incomes you need to buy into ACL and TF has already said it's not worth it.

Fishers comments were more along the lines of ACL not being viable with the level of debt it carries but that is a totally different issue. The fact is we won't get those revenues until one of the following happens 1) Wasps fail and leave allowing the club and stadium to be united; 2) we build a new ground or 3) we wait 250 years until the lease is up for sale.

 

[chiefdave]

We just need a winning team, moving up the league and lets see where it takes us.

Where do you think that is going to take us? All the available evidence would indicate we can not be completive above the level we are currently at. You plan seems to be just hope for a miracle, not sure that's what we can all rely on.

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

So you keep saying.
We just need a winning team, moving up the league and lets see where it takes us.
There is nothing else we can do ........... is there ?

Maybe that is the best we can do with the hand we have now been dealt, unfortunately that can only take us so far until we go full cycle and drop back to our current position in L1 as it isn't sustainable.

 

[Grendel]

Italia should work for Sisu as their strategy development guru.

Develop a plan ignoring all the indicators are telling you the opposite and just carry on regardless.

 

[olderskyblue]

however all the clubs we are competing with are getting all the matchday income so as has been said we are at a huge disadvantage.

Huge? really? How much in £££ are we disadvantaged by?

 

[italiahorse]

You could argue we have 'invested' millions into ACL via a vastly overpriced rent that was paid for several years. Your statement illustrates exactly the problem, you say we get "some access to matchday incomes" which is correct however all the clubs we are competing with are getting all the matchday income so as has been said we are at a huge disadvantage.



Fishers comments were more along the lines of ACL not being viable with the level of debt it carries but that is a totally different issue. The fact is we won't get those revenues until one of the following happens 1) Wasps fail and leave allowing the club and stadium to be united; 2) we build a new ground or 3) we wait 250 years until the lease is up for sale.

The rent was set high because that was what it would be if we went into the PL.
The management at the time thought return was inevitable. Obviously in L1 it is too high but they never saw that coming !!!

In reality to your 1/2/3
1) We would still rent off ACL/SISU 2) We would still rent off SISU 3) We would still rent of SISU Worldwide Inc.

 

[italiahorse]

Where do you think that is going to take us? All the available evidence would indicate we can not be completive above the level we are currently at. You plan seems to be just hope for a miracle, not sure that's what we can all rely on.

That's not my plan .... it's all we can do.

 

[italiahorse]

Italia should work for Sisu as their strategy development guru.

Develop a plan ignoring all the indicators are telling you the opposite and just carry on regardless.

Or build a new stadium. LMFHO

 

[italiahorse]

Huge? really? How much in £££ are we disadvantaged by?

FFS don't start him off.
He thinks he can show you whats wrong but can't tell you how to sort it.

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

Huge? really? How much in £££ are we disadvantaged by?

I think he meant we would be at massive disadvantage in the championship, which is correct. At this level are lack of revenues is more of a leveller, which bring us down to there level.

We come between Peterborough and Watford so we are at a disadvantage to about 20 other clubs by anything between 1-20 million (ignoring parachute payments)

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

That's not my plan .... it's all we can do.

Maybe it is all we can do, but it isn't enough. Which is why people are pissed off that SISU didn't buy into the Ricoh and are also pissed off that the council sold ACL to Wasps.

 

[chiefdave]

Huge? really? How much in £££ are we disadvantaged by?

Here you go:

Even that 'expert' the CT rolled out to try and show Fisher was mad to talk about a new stadium said we need to look to stadium ownership at Championship level. This is explained over and over again by various people on this forum, I don't understand why people can't grasp it.

The rent was set high because that was what it would be if we went into the PL.

That's not how the rent was set according to PWKH, he stated it was set based on the final years rent at HR but failed to mention that included a huge penalty for our moving out being delayed, the knock on effect of which was the redevelopment being delayed.

1) We would still rent off ACL/SISU 2) We would still rent off SISU 3) We would still rent of SISU Worldwide Inc.

You don't know what the setup would be, none of us does. There would still be a prop co as that's a standard setup and rent would still pass from the Ltd company that is the football club to the Ltd company that is the prop co, again a standard setup. The key would be the relationship between those companies. The same situation still exists if and when SISU leave unless we are saying we are now accepting being a L1 team with occasional visits to the Championship and L2.

That's not my plan .... it's all we can do.

So you're agreeing that by selling the stadium to Wasps CCC and Higgs have killed off any chance of us having success in the future?

 

[chiefdave]

I think he meant we would be at massive disadvantage in the championship, which is correct. At this level are lack of revenues is more of a leveller, which bring us down to there level.

The higher the level the bigger the disadvantage. If other clubs are receiving 100p in every £ spent on a matchday and we are at best receiving 50p in the £ on some of the matchday revenue streams I don't understand how anyone can argue we are not at a disadvantage!

 

[chiefdave]

Maybe it is all we can do, but it isn't enough. Which is why people are pissed off that SISU didn't buy into the Ricoh and are also pissed off that the council sold ACL to Wasps.

Exactly, if people like italia are now saying that is the best we can do why are they not furious at the council? SISU have done many many terrible things and caused huge issues but CCC have killed off any hope things will ever improve to any great extent.

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

Exactly, if people like italia are now saying that is the best we can do why are they not furious at the council? SISU have done many many terrible things and caused huge issues but CCC have killed off any hope things will ever improve to any great extent.

I'm over it, I've accepted I will never see city in the top flight during my lifetime. I'm just hoping for a few promotion pushes/play off finals/JPT finals/cup away days and the odd stint in the championship. Just hoping we don't drop any further which will put even those low ambitions beyond us.

 

[duffer]

We already get a share.
Just need to start winning and see where it takes us.
People will return if we move towards the top and they will continue to return if we can move up the leagues.
There's no other choice so lets do the best we can.

There is no doubt Wasps will enjoy mutual benefits and want us here so we just need to get the best deal we can.
I suspect though that Sisu are clueless in this and will battle CCC and Wasps in court and Wasps will just let us rent the stadium once the current deal is finished.
Mark my words, if Sisu don't come to the party by the end of next year, we will only be renting the stadium at a minimum rent whilst they take ALL the incomes.
Sisu will be unable to justify moving out if the rent is only £100K and our level will be set at League 1.

What, we get a share in the 24/7/365 revenues of ACL? I don't think so.

We may get a share of the matchday revenues (which wouldn't exist without us being there, of course), but it seems fairly clear that that alone isn't going to be enough.

Again, let's be clear here - do you think that Wasps will give us access to the ACL revenues which they have bought, and which they clearly need?

 

[italiahorse]

I fail to see how CCFC cannot make £5M from commercial revenues in a PL push up the Championship.
I'd put it down to poor management.
If the shop is an example I rest my case

 

[Grendel]

Or build a new stadium. LMFHO

Er that's my point.

Your notion that a company that has purchased revenues for themselves having declared they would go bankrupt if they didn't own them will just hand them over is absurd. As absurd as sisu building a stadium.

I think you will now come out with some childlike response of "if you don't ask you won't get". So I have a challenge for you. Pop along to your nearest Car dealership and ask if you can have one of their cars for free. After all if you don't ask.....

 

[italiahorse]

Er that's my point.

Your notion that a company that has purchased revenues for themselves having declared they would go bankrupt if they didn't own them will just hand them over is absurd. As absurd as sisu building a stadium.

I think you will now come out with some childlike response of "if you don't ask you won't get". So I have a challenge for you. Pop along to your nearest Car dealership and ask if you can have one of their cars for free. After all if you don't ask.....

We already get some of the incomes without any investment in the facilities.
We could make savings by sharing facilities with Wasps, closing down the superstore and moving it into Tesco's.
There are lots more.

How about going into a car dealership selling Jaguars and rent the vacant selling space to sell Land Rovers.
We could share salesmen, servicing and paintshop.
We could also sell our own Land Rover merchandise and all we have to do is ask.

I fail to see how CCFC cannot make £5M a year commercially.

 

[stupot07]

Really ?
Even though we get some of those anyway without investing a penny in providing any of the facilities ?

We do invest in providing the facilities, it's called rent and matchday expenses.


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[SkyBlue_Bear83]

You obviously plucked that 5 million figure out from between your butt cheeks

 

[stupot07]

We also get some access to matchday incomes without ever investing in ACL.
For Non matchday incomes you need to buy into ACL and TF has already said it's not worth it.

We do have it within our remit to generate our own non matchday incomes, but ......
Obviously a club shop, away from the stadium, with no stock is the way forward.

We pay rent and matchday costs,

We won't buy into ACL because wasps will not want to sell their shares,


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[Thenose]

So you're agreeing that by not making a sensible offer to buy the stadium, SISU have killed off any chance of us having success in the future?

Sorry just corrected that for you...

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

Sorry just corrected that for you...

It was the council that sold off ACL, now obviously had it not been for SISU it probably wouldn't have been sold. If we had never left the Ricoh, I doubt Wasps would be here.

SISU loaded the gun but the council pulled the trigger.

 

[stupot07]

You obviously plucked that 5 million figure out from between your butt cheeks

It's lunacy. If there was an avenues for easy money, we would already be doing it.

Selling cars lol


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