Well done sisu (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter grego_gee
- Start date
georgehudson
Well-Known Member
it would be refreshing if it was defined, determined, and rendered, as to the appropriate individuals who have caused this catastrophic state of events,
to the players, i'd say - do it for both yourselves & us - the real fans,
to SP & crew, i'd say galvanise your squad,
to us fans i'd say, we are Coventry !!!!
to the players, i'd say - do it for both yourselves & us - the real fans,
to SP & crew, i'd say galvanise your squad,
to us fans i'd say, we are Coventry !!!!
coundonskyblue
New Member
<p>
Do you not agree that the owners of a business or football club are ultimately responsible for its success/failure?
Blame the customers for reacting badly to a shite product and you will be out of business pretty soon.
Do you not agree that the owners of a business or football club are ultimately responsible for its success/failure?
Blame the customers for reacting badly to a shite product and you will be out of business pretty soon.
Nonleagueherewecome
Well-Known Member
It'd be OK though, you could always call in the lawyers to smash them.
Nonleagueherewecome
Well-Known Member
Zackly!
Hasn't it been said we have one of the best squads if not the best squad in the league?
And what about biting the hand that feeds you?
Forget the Haskells
Even if he did buy in - which he won't
He could not spend more on the team - even if he had millions to throw at it, because its limited by FFP
which is limited by revenue, thich WAS limited by the rental agreement.
imp:
Ha, yeah, feeds us rat poison.
Diehard Si
New Member
Initially reading this I wondered what you'd been smoking. That said, you do make a good counter argument.
However, in my view that's all irrelevant. If ACL won't sell the stadium to SISU then this club is ruined. I don't blame ACL for this. Sisu have proven slippery and go back on their word.
This club needs the stadium being owned. If acl arnt going anywhere then it's got to be Sisu that goes. Opinion aside, they just don't work together.
However, in my view that's all irrelevant. If ACL won't sell the stadium to SISU then this club is ruined. I don't blame ACL for this. Sisu have proven slippery and go back on their word.
This club needs the stadium being owned. If acl arnt going anywhere then it's got to be Sisu that goes. Opinion aside, they just don't work together.
Our expectations have always been too low. Fans show no ambition. When we were in the PL we were always punching above our weight, and in the C'Ship we were always being told by people on forums like this that we had 'no chance' and even before this season people were making dire predictions. We expect failure and that is what we get.
You don't have to think we are a sleeping giant to know we are a big club at this level and therefore have every right to expect that we won't stick around here very long. Sheff United fans know they are too big for this level and when it looked like they may fall away a few weeks back their fans told their players and club what they thought about that, and they responded.
The merest sign of discontent by any of our supporters and forums like this go into meltdown with wet-blankets bleating about not getting on the players backs etc. (mid-game no, but at HT and FT? Let them know if it isn't good enough). At Bramall Lane the fans were not shy to let the players know what they thought. I bet that hardly got a mention anywhere because they expect better.
I'm sorry, we haven't played at this level for 50 years, so by definition it is not 'our level' and we have every right to expect to get out of it next season. No doubt though, the same people will be predicting 'mid-table at best' and will criticise people like me for my lofty ambitions of promotion from division 3. Unbelievable.
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J
Jack Griffin
Guest
Si, they won't buy it, they talked to the Higgs charity & then backed out of a purchase, also the council might veto a SISU purchase anyway. The only way out of this mess is a new owner who has a radically different approach to business, more responsible & open, who treats stakeholders (including fans) with respect. Till SISU get their pound of flesh we are stuck with them, I just hope that day is close, but I'm not holding my breath.
coundonskyblue
New Member
Can't argue with any of that.
Mentality of the club has to change. This goes for owners, fans and players. Some on here seem to have thought been 8th in Div 3 was 'good'. A club like CCFC should have ambitions to be top. Whenever players do not perform they need to be told that its unnacceptable.
As for the fans, well it can't be had both ways. Either we're a big club in a poxy league, or we are are at our level.
The fact that we get twice the average gate in this league, and yet are still heading for our lowest average in 30 years suggests we are a big club.
However if the message to the fans is 'we are nothing more than an average league 1 side', then don't expect more than average league 1 support, i.e. 5k.
shropshirecov
New Member
There's people on here who think consolidating mid table next season would be perfectly acceptable.
@richh87
Member
This echoes my thoughts entirely. The only way to progress is for SISU to leave. They may have wasted a lot of money funding us, but their reign has been a farce. Just think of Brody, Delleiu and the ridiculous things that have gone on. They forced relegation on us by crippling the squad, and haven't done anything to be proud of.
They have lied to us, and when we protested against them, censored us. They didn't take us on out of the goodness of their hearts, they thought they could make a profit and went about it in entirely the wrong way.
They could've bought the stadium, or a share of it, but they have shown themselves to not be trust worthy. The threats etc just underline how little they care about CCFC, and their lack of respect for the fans.
The only way to have a bright future is under ownership where the club owns the ground. SISU can't provide this.
They won't be getting a thank you from me - they haven't earned one.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Would the same apply to prior regimes and all who sat on those boards?
Sky Blue Kid
Well-Known Member
theferret
and in the C'Ship we were always being told by people on forums like this that we had 'no chance' and even before this season people were making dire predictions. We expect failure and that is what we get.
It's not a case of expecting failure...............It was a case of knowing we were going to fail. Zero, or minute investment in the playing squad from SISU from the off put paid to any hopes of a return to the Premier League. When the best 2 players in the team were bought for "buttons" then sold approx 15 months later for millions, and from then on no, nada, zip, zilch, nowt. re-invested in players...THAT is why, we're where we are now!
and in the C'Ship we were always being told by people on forums like this that we had 'no chance' and even before this season people were making dire predictions. We expect failure and that is what we get.
It's not a case of expecting failure...............It was a case of knowing we were going to fail. Zero, or minute investment in the playing squad from SISU from the off put paid to any hopes of a return to the Premier League. When the best 2 players in the team were bought for "buttons" then sold approx 15 months later for millions, and from then on no, nada, zip, zilch, nowt. re-invested in players...THAT is why, we're where we are now!
theferret
and in the C'Ship we were always being told by people on forums like this that we had 'no chance' and even before this season people were making dire predictions. We expect failure and that is what we get.
It's not a case of expecting failure...............It was a case of knowing we were going to fail. Zero, or minute investment in the playing squad from SISU from the off put paid to any hopes of a return to the Premier League. When the best 2 players in the team were bought for "buttons" then sold approx 15 months later for millions, and from then on no, nada, zip, zilch, nowt. re-invested in players.. .THAT is why, we're where we are now!
In 10 years we never made the top 6 once (and that is quite hard to do), and many people were OK with that and expected it and always found an excuse for it. During that time many teams with smaller gates (sometimes much smaller), and smaller playing budgets, managed a top 6 finish and some went on to be promoted. We just settle for shit, and even now in this league people are talking about mid-table consolidation next season. We'll never achieve anything as long as people set their sights so low.
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oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
failure has become a comfortable habit for team and supporters........... we need to expect more than that, we are right to expect more than that ........ we need to break the mindset.
Expect to fail and you will, because you will not see or grasp the opportunities that make the difference.
Expect to fail and you will, because you will not see or grasp the opportunities that make the difference.
SallyCinnamon
New Member
No problem,!
I guess you don't like to listen to views that aren't in line with yours.
I felt rather uneasy talking to a fowl mouthed bloke called Mary anyway!
And if Mary is a bloke some people think his real name is Peter . . . Can you confirm or deny, Mary, that you are Peter?
@richh87
Member
Yes it would. It doesn't excuse it though.
grego_gee
New Member
We have a squad of c30 with an average open market value of £300k. That is only equaled in L1 by Sheffield United.
http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/league-one/startseite/wettbewerb_GB3.html
Players and managers coming or staying is influenced by the status of the club and attitudes of the fans.
Is it really SISU's fault that McGoldrick and Robbins left?
Sorry, I don't think I can do any better.
Thank you, I'm out!
imp:
http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/league-one/startseite/wettbewerb_GB3.html
Players and managers coming or staying is influenced by the status of the club and attitudes of the fans.
Is it really SISU's fault that McGoldrick and Robbins left?
Sorry, I don't think I can do any better.
Thank you, I'm out!
imp:
Skyblueweeman
Well-Known Member
MMM...a bit over the top in your damnation of someone with a different opinion. Chill man!
Anyway, back on topic...you're right in what you're saying but I want to bring you up on your once proud family club statement. I'm 32 so I was around to see us in 87 but didn't experience the highs of the 60's that some have. But for a lot of the younger members on here, their earliest memories will be the good ole days in the Prem when Huckerby was netting 3 past Man Yoo, when we were beating Arsenal 3-2 on Boxing Day with some Morrocan Magic or Robbie Keane scoring on his debut. All great days but it was days like this when we were all lapping it up when we were actually sowing the seeds of our current position.
Years of spending more on players and wages that what we could actually afford, combined with an ill-timed move to a stadium that's too big for us has contributed to where we are today. SISU have their serious doubters and rightly so, but they're not the only culpable group in this sorry saga. I defy anyway to say the club was financially sound before they took over.
Respectfully,
WM
'I was worried about swimming against the tide on here, but I really think we can't expect more of an owner'........................................FFS, yes we can expect more from an owner !! Its not just about stumping up some cash, its about how you manage the investment of that cash, how you operate with your suppliers, sponsors and supporters, its about the vital decisions you make and when you make them. SISU have screwed up on almost all of this criteria. They've failed their investors and themselves but more importantly they left us in an even worse position than the previous incompetents !!
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Well we are in admin now so I am sure everything will be fine and dandy.
Sky Blue Kid
Well-Known Member
The Mickey Adams era was a stability mode, and something we could have worked on.(Highest finish in the Championship) Dowie was, imo doing a good job(His brother scouting Dann and Fox) Then for no apparent reason was sacked, and the rest is history. Coleman, Hoofroyd, Thorn, Shaw....All total shit. Thorn was responsible for all playing staff in the last year of Championship football. Be it, scouting or managing.
He is not or was a good scout with the exception of perhaps 4-5 players. His failure to spot decent players is a major factor in our demise.
Does it not cross your mind that the scouts of other much smaller teams were head shoulders above Thorn's scouting skills?:facepalm:
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Can't argue with any of that.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Well, quite. Our friends over in Leicester or our CCFC counterparts in Cardiff are reaping the rewards of spending far more than they've got-Cardiff will have it pay off for them but it's a lot less certain for Leicester whose future is uncertain when FFP kicks in and they're still a Championship club. However, MMM is right to say what he does against the current owners; Richardson may have planted the seeds but this lot have harvested the crop and planted a fresh batch.
TrakiaPlovdiv
New Member
I think some of you are forgetting that:
1. When SISU took over the shares of CCFC Ltd for next to nothing.
2. The Debt at that time was then £60 Million.
3. They promised that they would invest in the Team.
4. They promised that they would buy a share in the Stadium.
5. They promised an Open and Honest dialogue with Supporters.
Conclusion:
At the point of Administration the Club debt is still set at £60 Million.
The initial investment made in players has been recovered by Selling on several players and general tightening of the Playing Budget.
The claimed level of investment by SISU has never materialised as the Company has run the Club at 'Break-Even' levels, save for the outstanding rent of £1.3 Million owed to ACL.
If SISU had done as promised and bought their potential share in the Ricoh, they would have opened up the Revenue Streams they are so desperately after and would not have found themselves putting the whole future of the Club in jeapody.
They probably made the decision to get Clarke and Baker to have their Operations now in order for them to fit and be a saleable asset for the Administrator to potential new Clubs for the opening of the new Transfer Window.
In Admin, under their own chosen Administrator, SISU will look to re-coup as much (or as little) of this so called £60 Million owed to ARVO, stripping the Club bare leaving no assets whilst gaining Tax Breaks and off setting the losses to ARVO as the Major Creditor (which SISU own) and leaving ACL without anything left to claim.
A total and utter smoke screen by under handed cut throats who's own mishandling and mismanagement has lead to their own downfall and as soon as they are away from OUR CLUB and the Game of Football in general the better for eveyone concerned.
Rant Over!
1. When SISU took over the shares of CCFC Ltd for next to nothing.
2. The Debt at that time was then £60 Million.
3. They promised that they would invest in the Team.
4. They promised that they would buy a share in the Stadium.
5. They promised an Open and Honest dialogue with Supporters.
Conclusion:
At the point of Administration the Club debt is still set at £60 Million.
The initial investment made in players has been recovered by Selling on several players and general tightening of the Playing Budget.
The claimed level of investment by SISU has never materialised as the Company has run the Club at 'Break-Even' levels, save for the outstanding rent of £1.3 Million owed to ACL.
If SISU had done as promised and bought their potential share in the Ricoh, they would have opened up the Revenue Streams they are so desperately after and would not have found themselves putting the whole future of the Club in jeapody.
They probably made the decision to get Clarke and Baker to have their Operations now in order for them to fit and be a saleable asset for the Administrator to potential new Clubs for the opening of the new Transfer Window.
In Admin, under their own chosen Administrator, SISU will look to re-coup as much (or as little) of this so called £60 Million owed to ARVO, stripping the Club bare leaving no assets whilst gaining Tax Breaks and off setting the losses to ARVO as the Major Creditor (which SISU own) and leaving ACL without anything left to claim.
A total and utter smoke screen by under handed cut throats who's own mishandling and mismanagement has lead to their own downfall and as soon as they are away from OUR CLUB and the Game of Football in general the better for eveyone concerned.
Rant Over!
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Excellent post, right on the money.
He could not spend more on the team - even if he had millions to throw at it, because its limited by FFP
which is limited by revenue, thich WAS limited by the rental agreement.
Thats not true at all, the ammount you spend on wages is limited by the ffp, but the ammount you spend is not. Someone rich could come in spend twice as much on the youth setup, spend 10 million on players and still be within the ffp rules, especially since selling players creates revenue, so if you buy a 10 million pound player and then sell him for 9 million you get an extra 6 million to spend on wages. The rules do not in anyway stop a rich person buying up the league. Especially since our crowds and thus revenue would also rise dramatically if we felt we had a decent owner for once.
The simple fact of the matter is if sisu had paid the rent this year and invested a bit during the transfer and loan windows we'd have almost certainly have made the play offs, still have mark robbins in charge and quite possibly had david mcgoldrick too.
Acl also seem to have offered everything that was needed to have higher revenue for the ffp rules in their offer too.
I wouldnt invest in ccfc though either if I win 100 mill tonight.
Skyblueweeman
Well-Known Member
Unfortunately for us BSB, Leicester are the original Admin goons who got away with it. Clubs (such as Cardiff) as you rightly point out won't be spending more than they can afford going forward. My own personal opinion is that the likes of QPR will be financially screwed, even if they stay in the Prem. Their owner won't stay forever and they'll be left with players on £50-£100k per week contracts, in a stadium that holds circa 20k fans. The world of football is in a financial mess....it's not just us. The sad news for Dunferlime fans yesterday shows two proud clubs on their knees after years and years and shite management.
Here's hoping for light at the end of the tunnel but I don't think we've hit rock bottom yet....
WM
grego_gee
New Member
The Stadium is not ACL's to sell. Its owned by another council owned company.
The council chose to set up a "holding company", ACL to run the stadium and its leased to them.
Now that ACL exists it provides a living for many fat cats who soak up a good proportion of the running costs and would loose their jobs if ACL ceased!.
Because of this structure established by the council, it was difficult for ACL to agree to a reasonable renegotiated sub-lease with CCFC, so SISU have taken one of the few options available to them to end their sub-lease.
If CCFC are to "own" their own stadium it may have to be another one and not the wonderful monument to mutton!
But they might decide to call it a day before that ever happens!
God help us if they leave!
imp:Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Well yes, but if it weren't Leicester who exploited it then someone else would've come along and done it later-though Leicester managed to get a stadium for nothing out of the deal too which is especially outrageous. QPR are in serious trouble indeed if they go down (not sure how with some of those players), though I think the likes of Wigan have been competing on a small enough budget for them not to be that badly affected. You're absolutely right but I don't think football will wake up until a big dog hits the wall, and I don't even count ourselves in that bracket; to be blunt I don't think the PL will give one iota about QPR if they go bust provided it's not in their division.
coundonskyblue
New Member
The Stadium is not ACL's to sell. Its owned by another council owned company.
The council chose to set up a "holding company", ACL to run the stadium and its leased to them.
Now that ACL exists it provides a living for many fat cats who soak up a good proportion of the running costs and would loose their jobs if ACL ceased!.
Because of this structure established by the council, it was difficult for ACL to agree to a reasonable renegotiated sub-lease with CCFC, so SISU have taken one of the few options available to them to end their sub-lease.
If CCFC are to "own" their own stadium it may have to be another one and not the wonderful monument to mutton!
But they might decide to call it a day before that ever happens!
God help us if they leave!
Are you saying then that the Council should never have set up ACL to run the Ricoh and should have run it directly?
Grendel
Well-Known Member
He's saying, among other things, ACL will have to absorbed into the football club if there is any hope of the club remaining here.
New owners wouldn't touch the current arrangement with a barge pole.
coundonskyblue
New Member
Wouldn't disagree with that. CCFC as owners would need to keep ACL as a subsidairy imo. Football clubs shouldn't be organising concerts and exhibitions.