Well I think that's just about it for us (1 Viewer)

Otis

Well-Known Member
In view of the other results, this was a match we had to win.

I think we are doomed and it is all but over.

Yes I know people will point to still being just 3 points behind but I think that is a bit of a smokescreen.

1. Don't forget, nearly everyone on here was saying the Palace game was a must win. We drew.

2. At least 2-3 results went against us last night.

3. We felt before the game that we could well be out of the bottom 3 come the end of the night. We're still there.

4. That's yet another game gone.

5. Think back to Saturday morning. Was anyone on here then saying that 1 point form Leshtur and Palace would be anything other than a disaster?

6. All we have done is move the goalposts yet again. Leshtur and Palace were described as must wins, now Birmingham and Watford have become must wins.

7. We still have to play on our travels, Hull, Cardiff, Burnley and Southampton. Our away form is nothing short of a disgrace.



In summary we are still where we were, only another more couple of games have gone by and our away form if anything is getting worse. (the last 3 away games have been 2-0, 2-0, 2-0).

I am sure like many, many others, I am getting sick of keep saying this is a must win game etc

Birmingham and Watford have now become must win games.

The writing truly looks on the wall for us.

A few on here were pointing to how much a superior team of players Leshtur had to us on Saturday and how did we expect anything other than defeat. Yet Bristol City beat them. Yes, it was at home, but Bristol beat them and they were on a terrible run. A dreadful run. As has been said by many a fan, many a manager and many a pundit, anyone can beat anyone in this league. Well not us away apparently.

Bristol's last sequence of results had been 0-3, 1-3, 2-2, 0-3, 0-3 prior to Leshtur. We shouldn't be blinded by science here. Our performance against Leshtur was unacceptable. As was our performance against Forest. As was so many of our away performances.

Sure, you can put a positive spin on the fact that we are still just 3 points from saftety, but we have been in the bottom 3 since October, have the worst away record in the entire football league, give silly goals away and don't score enough.

As I and many others said, we simply wouldn't keep winning our home games. It was just not sustainable. All you need is a dodgy decision, own goal, silly mistake, bad ref or penalty (as was the case last night with the latter two).

Putting this altogether you can only come to one conclusion surely? The fat leady is clearing her throat, the mike is switched on and the conductor has his baton in hand.

Time to wake up and smell the coffee I'm afraid.

Even if we do beat Birmingham we will have to get something at Watford.

What we need is an unbeaten run. We've had one unbeaten run all season. That was just 3 games and that happened last August.

Kenco anyone?
 

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Lord_Nampil

Well-Known Member
Still think its not over till its over ! Just a shame we have had a management team who didn't react when they could of in the summer! Last night wasn't a bad result just not a good on either!! 11 games to go we can still do it but games are running out!
 

Otis

Well-Known Member
In view of the other results, last night's result for us was a terrible result.
 

CUS Wyken

New Member
Last night proved how bad a result the Leiceter and Forest results were.

A goal shy Bristol city manged to score 3 against them. A poor donny team go to Forest and get 3 points.

It's games like that show our missed opprotunity on getting out of trouble. If teams around us get results against them teams and we don't then it's points dropped and others gain.

Watch us go and beat Brum Saturday haha
 

Moff

Well-Known Member
Otis,

A well written post. I have to say in my humble opinion that I totally and utterly agree.

I think we are down, but would love to be proved wrong, and unless we sort out of pitiful and pathetic away form we are gone.
 

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
Every game we've played since Christmas has been labelled by people on here as a "must win" and every time we've lost it's been a case of "well, we are definitely down now". No, we're not. Games are running out, true enough, but until we are mathematically down then we have a chance of pulling out of this. Yes, we should have won last night, but at least we salvaged a well-earned draw against a good team.

If we give up then why shouldn't the players?
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
In view of the other results, last night's result for us was a terrible result.

Agree. If forest had won as well that would have been the ultimate blow. This management team have conjured up one away win in the last 12 calendar months.

How can a team survive when it concedes that 23 of it's games are not winnable. The team at the bottom of every other league manages to achieve 2 or 3 away wins in a season at least. It's unacceptable and even mediocre away form would have made a huge difference.
 

Otis

Well-Known Member
It's not giving up though, it's facing facts.

I think many of us have had our blinkers on. Where on earth are we suddenly going to conjure this away win from? We haven't even scored a goal in our last 3 away matches. :facepalm:
 
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torchomatic

Well-Known Member
The thing is you can't take results in isolation like you are. You can't say well we lost and against so and so and Doncaster beat them and so on. Anyone can beat anyone in any given game, look at Forest at Brum.. Most people on here thought we would get hammered against Leeds home and away, didn't happen.

We are in a crap position sure, but while it's looking increasingly desperate, it's not quite over yet. 33 points to play for. We really do need to win every home game from now on and stop the rot away.
 

Moff

Well-Known Member
Every game we've played since Christmas has been labelled by people on here as a "must win" and every time we've lost it's been a case of "well, we are definitely down now". No, we're not. Games are running out, true enough, but until we are mathematically down then we have a chance of pulling out of this. Yes, we should have won last night, but at least we salvaged a well-earned draw against a good team.

If we give up then why shouldn't the players?

Torchy,

I dont disagree with your sentiments, but i agree with what Otis has written and feel that we are heading down.

Dont confuse that with the fact that people defenitely think we are down, because certainly in my case I would love to be proved wrong, but this is a feeling I have and as I said in my previous post unless we sort out our pathetic away form I feel we are going to struggle to get out of the bottom three.

I certainly havent given up though, and still give the team all the backing i can. I dont think any fans have given up and always give full support, so to say some fans have done so is a little wide of the mark.
 

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
It's not "fact" that we are down. We're in the shit, but we are not down yet. Millwall were in free fall, they have turned it around, Forest and Doncaster have secured good away wins in the past. No we haven't scored a goal away from home for three games, but that doesn't mean to way we won't. It's like saying we will never win away again.

Give up if you must. I'm not going to. Just yet anyway.

It's not given up though, it's facing facts.

I think many of us have had our blinkers on. Where on earth are we suddenly going to conjure this away win from? We haven't even scored a goal in our last 3 away matches. :facepalm:
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
We are conditioned to losing away and are playing teams with strong home form and things to play for.

Even some pundit at Cwr (dietmar bruck) was highly critical of the tactical set up away from home, that we play possession too deep and always get caught. It's just grim.
 

CUS Wyken

New Member
The thing is you can't take results in isolation like you are. You can't say well we lost and against so and so and Doncaster beat them and so on. Anyone can beat anyone in any given game, look at Forest at Brum.. Most people on here thought we would get hammered against Leeds home and away, didn't happen.

We are in a crap position sure, but while it's looking increasingly desperate, it's not quite over yet. 33 points to play for. We really do need to win every home game from now on and stop the rot away.

Leeds haven't won in 5 and we won purely on pentalties that night. Goals in open play has been a problem. Against Forest and Leicester we didn't look like scoring but Donny and Bristol both muster goals against them.

That proves how goal shy we are up front.

Take last night for example, the ball was put in that 6 yard box God knows how many times yet no one on the end of it.

Palace were nothing special and yet again were relying on other teams to slip up.

The negatives deffo out weigh the positives
 

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
I'm not saying they're not supportive. That's wide of the mark. I'm saying that since Christmas after every defeat people on here have been saying we are definitely down. We're not. Yet.

I dont think any fans have given up and always give full support, so to say some fans have done so is a little wide of the mark.
 

Otis

Well-Known Member
The thing is you can't take results in isolation like you are. You can't say well we lost and against so and so and Doncaster beat them and so on. Anyone can beat anyone in any given game, look at Forest at Brum.. Most people on here thought we would get hammered against Leeds home and away, didn't happen.

We are in a crap position sure, but while it's looking increasingly desperate, it's not quite over yet. 33 points to play for. We really do need to win every home game from now on and stop the rot away.

But Torchy, people were saying we needed to win every home game before the Palace match. And I don't recall anyone saying we would get hammered by Leeds. And I am not using results in insolation. i was just trying to make the point that the Leshtur game shouldn't have been as inevitable as some were making out on here (they have superior players, more money, better squad, why did we expect anything other than defeat etc.) The point I was making was that they were beatable. Of course they were and we could have been capable of beating them ..............if we'd had been up for it.
 
I agree, last night was a must win. Let's not dwell on it though eh? It's depressing enough as it is.
 

Moff

Well-Known Member
I'm not saying they're not supportive. That's wide of the mark. I'm saying that since Christmas after every defeat people on here have been saying we are definitely down. We're not. Yet.

True we are not down yet, and I would never say that is definite until it is mathematically confirmed, but some like myself, whilst hoping it isnt the case, have seen the fat lady practising her chords.

Now I believe on this occasion neither of us have been wide of the mark ;)
 

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
Arrrggh! It doesn't matter about penalties! They are goals. Everyone were saying how much of a threat Palace would be last night and they got a point because of a....?

It's points on the board that matter, not how we get them. We don't have enough points on the board so I don't care how many penalties we score. Like I said, it's easy to take results in isolation. We beat Utd at Old Trafford the other season, did that make us one of the best teams in Europe? No. Doncaster's away win doesn't make them invincable away from home either.


Leeds haven't won in 5 and we won purely on pentalties that night. Goals in open play has been a problem. Against Forest and Leicester we didn't look like scoring but Donny and Bristol both muster goals against them.

That proves how goal shy we are up front.

Take last night for example, the ball was put in that 6 yard box God knows how many times yet no one on the end of it.

Palace were nothing special and yet again were relying on other teams to slip up.

The negatives deffo out weigh the positives
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Statistical points are they key and ours says second from bottom with sub 40 points. The opening post is a statement of the harsh reality.

West ham in the tevez years won 7 of the last 10 to stay up one of the few trend buckers in modern tines.
 

canleykid

New Member
Agree. If forest had won as well that would have been the ultimate blow. This management team have conjured up one away win in the last 12 calendar months.

How can a team survive when it concedes that 23 of it's games are not winnable. The team at the bottom of every other league manages to achieve 2 or 3 away wins in a season at least. It's unacceptable and even mediocre away form would have made a huge difference.

Even one away win would've had us out the bottom three,two away wins and were three points above it,so i agree duffy don't qoute me but after having another check on other leagues we have the worst away record in all divisions inc blue square the away games we have left in the coming weeks are not known for picking up points as we have bad records at them all,time for that coffee
 

Otis

Well-Known Member
As I said Torchy, and you may care to read my post again, I was not using results in isolation. That was clearly not the point I was putting across.

Just saying that the Leshtur result shouldn't have been as inevitable as people were saying it was on here.
 

Otis

Well-Known Member
Even one away win would've had us out the bottom three,two away wins and were three points above it,so i agree duffy don't qoute me but after having another check on other leagues we have the worst away record in all divisions inc blue square the away games we have left in the coming weeks are not known for picking up points as we have bad records at them all,time for that coffee


We are the worst away team in the entire football league.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
We are the worst away team in the entire football league.

Throw Scotland in as well. That's what I find really annoying. If we were down like derby in that premier season then I would agree we are not good enough. However we will probably end up with 10 home wins and that to go down will be a very bitter pill to swallow.
 
but at least we salvaged a well-earned draw against a good team.

We salvaged a point against an average team...they are 12th in the league....mid-table!

I agree to an extent with Otis, however, as we have seen with Millwall, unexpected results are possible...and only a couple are needed to drag us away from trouble....however, I admit that we have shown no sign of this.

Interestingly, our record against teams in the bottom half is more of a worry than against the bottom teams...here's the table for matches played against the bottom half...

eam Pld vBH W D L F A GD GFA GAA PpG Pts
1 Birmingham City (6) 33 18 11 5 2 37 16 21 2.05 0.88 2.11 38
2 West Ham United (2) 33 18 12 2 4 29 18 11 1.61 1.00 2.11 38
3 Reading (3) 34 20 13 3 4 29 19 10 1.45 0.95 2.10 42
4 Southampton (1) 35 18 11 4 3 36 15 21 2.00 0.83 2.05 37
5 Brighton & Hove Albion (7) 34 18 11 3 4 24 14 10 1.33 0.77 2.00 36
6 Hull City (9) 33 17 10 3 4 21 11 10 1.23 0.64 1.94 33
7 Leeds United (10) 35 19 11 3 5 34 21 13 1.78 1.10 1.89 36
8 Middlesbrough (4) 34 19 10 6 3 29 18 11 1.52 0.94 1.89 36
9 Crystal Palace (12) 34 17 9 5 3 21 10 11 1.23 0.58 1.88 32
10 Cardiff City (8) 33 17 8 7 2 30 20 10 1.76 1.17 1.82 31
11 Watford (17) 34 17 8 6 3 26 18 8 1.52 1.05 1.76 30
12 Blackpool (5) 35 18 9 4 5 31 20 11 1.72 1.11 1.72 31
13 Peterborough United (18) 34 16 8 3 5 32 26 6 2.00 1.62 1.68 27
14 Derby County (14) 34 15 7 3 5 21 15 6 1.40 1.00 1.60 24
15 Ipswich Town (15) 34 15 8 0 7 28 31 -3 1.86 2.06 1.60 24
16 Burnley (13) 34 17 8 3 6 29 20 9 1.70 1.17 1.58 27
17 Millwall (19) 35 17 8 3 6 26 18 8 1.52 1.05 1.58 27
18 Portsmouth (24) 34 15 7 1 7 19 15 4 1.26 1.00 1.46 22
19 Leicester City (11) 34 18 6 6 6 27 23 4 1.50 1.27 1.33 24
20 Bristol City (20) 35 15 5 4 6 15 21 -6 1.00 1.40 1.26 19
21 Barnsley (16) 35 19 6 5 8 24 27 -3 1.26 1.42 1.21 23
22 Nottingham Forest (21) 34 17 5 4 8 15 23 -8 0.88 1.35 1.11 19
23 Doncaster Rovers (23) 33 16 4 4 8 17 28 -11 1.06 1.75 1.00 16
24 Coventry City (22) 35 15 4 2 9 10 20 -10 0.66 1.33 0.93 14
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Slightly distorted I guess as most home games left are against these teams but still makes miserable reading.
 
Whilst my heart thinks its over I cannot accept this until it's mathematically impossible.

I totally agree with this, tbh.

We just have to keep going and hoping we string some results together....if I didn't believe that I wouldn't have bought my Watford and Cardiff tickets.

The chances of us getting out of it diminish with every game we fail to win, but as long as it is possible, we just need to keep believing.
 
Slightly distorted I guess as most home games left are against these teams but still makes miserable reading.

Agreed and it also includes teams who were bottom half at the time we played them and may not be now...i.e Blues in the second game of the season.

However, I was just trying to point out that the games against Pompey/Millwall/Doncaster/Brizzle are not going to be walkovers....and that's backed up (partly) by stats
 

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
Grossly pessimistic view on it there Otis. We have Millwall, Portsmouth, Peterborough, Doncaster, and Bristol to play-only one of those away. To state 'all hope is lost' after a home draw against Palace is being a touch over the top. That we are still 3 points off despite such woeful away form tells you that really, the teams around us are little better-and Pompey are fast becoming a write off. Draw against a strong Birmingham would also not be disastrous-cheer up!
 

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
Leeds haven't won in 5 and we won purely on pentalties that night. Goals in open play has been a problem. Against Forest and Leicester we didn't look like scoring but Donny and Bristol both muster goals against them.

That proves how goal shy we are up front.

Take last night for example, the ball was put in that 6 yard box God knows how many times yet no one on the end of it.

Palace were nothing special and yet again were relying on other teams to slip up.

The negatives deffo out weigh the positives

Leeds beat Portsmouth away the week before last ;)
 

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