Where has all the money gone??? (5 Viewers)

Hobo · Aug 24, 2016

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
I completely follow those statements.

Would you agree though, that the budget Mowbray has been given is probably acceptable to give League One a good go? Therefore, where we are at the moment in terms of squad probably rests on his shoulders more than SISU's?

I don't know whether it "is probably acceptable (budget) to give League 1 a good go?"

That would depend on several factors:
1. How you rate your base squad.
2. How you rate your youngsters and how you see them developing (realistically).
3. Timeline for bringing in quality vs unrealistic fans view it should have happened last month.
5. Utilising loan system
6. Injuries can hamper progress.
7 where we are to how much budget is left.
8. Expectation (too early to think we should be pushing for promotion as a given right). Judge progress at the end of the season 12th might be massive progress if it gives us a better base for next year.

Building a team is slow. Our fans seem to have a 4-4-2 comfort blanket. We need players in but the season is young....many of our new players haven't had a real chance.

Nick · Aug 24, 2016

Hobo said:
I don't know whether it "is probably acceptable (budget) to give League 1 a good go?"

That would depend on several factors:
1. How you rate your base squad.
2. How you rate your youngsters and how you see them developing (realistically).
3. Timeline for bringing in quality vs unrealistic fans view it should have happened last month.
5. Utilising loan system
6. Injuries can hamper progress.
7 where we are to how much budget is left.
8. Expectation (too early to think we should be pushing for promotion as a given right). Judge progress at the end of the season 12th might be massive progress if it gives us a better base for next year.

Building a team is slow. Our fans seem to have a 4-4-2 comfort blanket. We need players in but the season is young....many of our new players haven't had a real chance.

Also if you sign Wingers when your formation doesn't involve Wingers, as an example

rupert_bear · Aug 24, 2016

Then why after reading all the above are sisu still here ? and seem keen to remain so. Gates won't rise anywhere near an average of 14k and if we got lucky got into the play offs and won promotion how can sisu afford championship football where again sustaining higher gates would be tough and wages alone would rise significantly. And they have a stadium to build.

Nick · Aug 24, 2016

rupert_bear said:
Then why after reading all the above are sisu still here ? and seem keen to remain so. Gates won't rise anywhere near an average of 14k and if we got lucky got into the play offs and won promotion how can sisu afford championship football where again sustaining higher gates would be tough and wages alone would rise significantly. And they have a stadium to build.

Because they just cut the budgets to suit, if gates go down to 3k, they cut outgoings.

Hobo · Aug 24, 2016

Nick said:
Also if you sign Wingers when your formation doesn't involve Wingers, as an example

Possibly, but it depends on the adaptability of the player. How he expects the front three to interact. He may want them stretching it and playing like wingers? Is the current formation just for now?

We are certainly missing 2 or 3 players. Yes we would like the squad to have a full pre season, but that isn't realistic when you are bringing 6 or more players in. We have picked up some injuries that need time to heal.

A frustrating start. I see this season as possibly a holding season. Mowbray brings in a spine, a couple of the youth develop as serious contenders (hopefully solid rather than outstanding, so we can hang on to them). Next summer hopefully he is just looking for 3 players.

Let's not hit the panicked button too soon.

ceetee · Aug 24, 2016

I suspect SISU are still here because if they left they would have to admit their losses to their investors

italiahorse · Aug 24, 2016

Hobo said:
Possibly, but it depends on the adaptability of the player. How he expects the front three to interact. He may want them stretching it and playing like wingers? Is the current formation just for now?

We are certainly missing 2 or 3 players. Yes we would like the squad to have a full pre season, but that isn't realistic when you are bringing 6 or more players in. We have picked up some injuries that need time to heal.

A frustrating start. I see this season as possibly a holding season. Mowbray brings in a spine, a couple of the youth develop as serious contenders (hopefully solid rather than outstanding, so we can hang on to them). Next summer hopefully he is just looking for 3 players.

Let's not hit the panicked button too soon.

We start all over again every season.
It's nonsense when people say we are building.
They just tick us over and take our money for the pleasure.

italiahorse · Aug 24, 2016

ceetee said:
I suspect SISU are still here because if they left they would have to admit their losses to their investors

I can't see what's in it for Sisu ?
One day we will find out, hopefully not the hard way.

Hobo · Aug 24, 2016

italiahorse said:
We start all over again every season.
It's nonsense when people say we are building.
They just tick us over and take our money for the pleasure.

I would agree, but some of our recent transfers (post January) do seem to have a longer view. But you do need some luck with how players turn out and others developed. It takes several seasons to build a successful team.

rupert_bear · Aug 24, 2016

I was told ages ago by a politician. who I would call a senior politician, when the whole truth is told it won't be believed.

Hobo · Aug 24, 2016

rupert_bear said:
I was told ages ago by a politician. who I would call a senior politician, when the whole truth is told it won't be believed.

Nice vague statement that fits almost any outcome. So worthless.

Nick · Aug 24, 2016

rupert_bear said:
I was told ages ago by a politician. who I would call a senior politician, when the whole truth is told it won't be believed.

Go on...

fernandopartridge · Aug 24, 2016

Hobo said:
Nice vague statement that fits almost any outcome. So worthless.

Or typical politician speak preying on inbuilt prejudice.....

rupert_bear · Aug 24, 2016

No

Nick said:
Go on...

No way would I put on here what was said, wouldn't be believed anyway just read what that twerp Hobo has put, see you out I would willingly say call it vague whatever. His view on certain parties, note plural was quiet strong, he did fear for our long term existence. He also spelt out the course he thought this would take and worryingly he has been fairly accurate.

BackRoomRummermill · Aug 24, 2016

italiahorse said:
I can't see what's in it for Sisu ?
One day we will find out, hopefully not the hard way.

Umm UK taxation and reliefs on such things in their wider company have everything to do with it. I thought you all knew ? Given the amount of experts on this forum ........

I mean who do you actually know who pays any Tax ....

Gazolba · Aug 24, 2016

The money has gone to offset the losses the club is making. We are hardly a money-generatng club. Once we run out of assets to sell, which is pretty much where we are now, we'll be heading to L2 and then struggling to retain our league status.

BackRoomRummermill · Aug 24, 2016

Gazolba said:
The money has gone to offset the losses the club is making. We are hardly a money-generatng club. Once we run out of assets to sell, which is pretty much where we are now, we'll be heading to L2 and then struggling to retain our league status.

While still not paying tax as we go

Ashdown · Aug 24, 2016

ceetee said:
I suspect SISU are still here because if they left they would have to admit their losses to their investors

These so called investors ?...................They've been wrecking the show here now for 8 years+, do you think someone hasn't asked how their old pension pot is doing by now !?

BackRoomRummermill · Aug 24, 2016

Wonder what SISU CT 600 looks like ? Ummm based on the clubs financial performance .... As for investors they won't be giving a shite in Bermuda and Tortolla ......

Hobo · Aug 24, 2016

rupert_bear said:
No

No way would I put on here what was said, wouldn't be believed anyway just read what that twerp Hobo has put, see you out I would willingly say call it vague whatever. His view on certain parties, note plural was quiet strong, he did fear for our long term existence. He also spelt out the course he thought this would take and worryingly he has been fairly accurate.

No not a twerp. But we are hamstrung....fed up of discussing politics...fed up people hinting at things.

We are up shit creek short term and long term. Somewhere in there is the club I support, which Mowbray is trying to manage.

We are an average League 1 Club with an average budget trying to stabilise by building the base to a side. We are at the foot of a mountain.

I respect your reasons for not divulging anything; but then don't mention it, if you respect the person that much. That was my point..I wasn't calling you to divulge anything

Otis · Aug 24, 2016

rupert_bear said:
No

No way would I put on here what was said, wouldn't be believed anyway just read what that twerp Hobo has put, see you out I would willingly say call it vague whatever. His view on certain parties, note plural was quiet strong, he did fear for our long term existence. He also spelt out the course he thought this would take and worryingly he has been fairly accurate.

There's always PM's, Rupert, hint, hint!

the rumpo kid · Aug 24, 2016

Ian1779 said:
50k doesn't even pay a year contract for a player at 1K a week. What kind of player do you get at that price?

Something that probably doesn't get mentioned is the fact that pay costs aren't just player wage... It's pension contribution, NI contribution both have which have increased a lot recently. Add to that player insurance - and you are probably looking at a lot more. Multiply that over 20+ players some of which will be on 2/3K a week and that's where a big chunk of any money goes to.

It's not the same exactly - but at the school I work in the NI increase means that the school can not replace a teacher as the increase is the cost of at least one qualified teacher.

players are classed as self employed and will pay there own tax and N.I. and will pay a fraction of what P.A.Y.E contributers pay. and as self employed the club does not have to offer a pension plan.

Grendel · Aug 24, 2016

the rumpo kid said:
players are classed as self employed and will pay there own tax and N.I. and will pay a fraction of what P.A.Y.E contributers pay. and as self employed the club does not have to offer a pension plan.

Footballers are classed as employees as far as the revenue is concerned.

Ian1779 · Aug 24, 2016

the rumpo kid said:
players are classed as self employed and will pay there own tax and N.I. and will pay a fraction of what P.A.Y.E contributers pay. and as self employed the club does not have to offer a pension plan.

That's not correct... They are contracted by a single company for the significant majority of their work so are forced to be registered as employees.

Different to golfers or tennis players that are effectively freelance and 'work' at different events.

Money earned through image rights, sponsorship will not be with club however so would be classed as a second income I think.

BackRoomRummermill · Aug 24, 2016

Ian1779 said:
That's not correct... They are contracted by a single company for the significant majority of their work so are forced to be registered as employees.

Different to golfers or tennis players that are effectively freelance and 'work' at different events.

Money earned through image rights, sponsorship will not be with club however so would be classed as a second income I think.[/QUOTE

, what if the company paying the wages is registered out of the U.K?

I already know the answer .........

It happens more than you think.

,

Ian1779 · Aug 24, 2016

BackRoomRummermill said:
what if the company paying the wages is registered out of the U.K?

I already know the answer .........

It happens more than you think.

Not saying it doesn't happen at very high level but at the level we are playing at very few and far between.

HMRC have done loads of work to close this loophole down.

dongonzalos · Aug 24, 2016

The budget will be less than last year because of the f##k up in calculating the break even figure.
Last year it was around 7th in the league.
So you are looking at what a 10th-8th budget looks like in the third division of English football. IMO

Ian1779 · Aug 24, 2016

Here's s crazy idea - we could get more fans to attend games and increase that budget significantly.

afan4life · Aug 24, 2016

FRY-CCFC said:
Into running the club and also the purchases of Jones/Turnbull and the contracts for McCann, Reid, Sordell, Thomas etc.

Idiot.

really? that's your answer? Sisu are relying on gullible prats like you... sadly for them some of us are slightly brighter than you and about 65% of the people who populate this forum...

afan4life · Aug 24, 2016

Ian1779 said:
Here's s crazy idea - we could get more fans to attend games and increase that budget significantly.

yer spot on ...Sisu are renowned for reinvesting into the playing squad....65% and counting...see above

Nick · Aug 24, 2016

afan4life said:
really? that's your answer? Sisu are relying on gullible prats like you... sadly for them some of us are slightly brighter than you and about 65% of the people who populate this forum...

Are they being paid with made up money then?

rupert_bear · Aug 24, 2016

Otis said:
There's always PM's, Rupert, hint, hint!

It was not Theresa May

Skyblueweeman · Aug 24, 2016

oldskyblue58 said:
Couple of points

- if you take it at face value the club said early this year (I think) that they got their sums wrong and the break even of 11K attendance per match was short of what was required. Therefore unlikely to any lee way in the figures for the attendances being just over 12k per game (although the extra attendance would give the club about £15k extra per match after deducting VAT etc). The major pressure on the income is of course wages. Unlikely anything was left over

- Had the club been covering its costs then I would think there would have been no need for the owners to put in an extra £780k, which it would seem following the Maddison sale was paid down to £530k. Details are in the last accounts filed at Co House. Has more been repaid since February?

- the Maddison sale. Everyone one gets hung up on the supposed headline figure (somewhere between 2m and 3m it would seem). However we don't know what actual cash was received or even when. I would think that part of the payment was in the value of Maddison being here on loan till the end of the season. Most transfers are in staged payments not up front and have substantial costs like agents attached.

- we have had to pay something for Jones and all the signings we have made (well 6) will have incurred agents fees and costs.

- we also paid a fee for Turnbull (yes it might be stage payments we don't know)

- there may well have been settlement fees for the players we didn't keep. Were there settlement payments for Pressley & co?

- there will have been set up costs I would guess to cover the new Ticketmaster arrangement.

- During May June & July we have operating costs but very little income.

- They may have expected add on income from the Wilson sale but that may have restricted due to his injury

- Against all that we have a lower playing wages costs, and season ticket sales

We wont have a better understanding until the next accounts to 31-05-16 are filed - usually end of February following. But that's some of what has gone on I think

Ha...I knew you were rubbish at numbers and I'd catch you out one day. You say a 'couple of points' then list 10! Busted!

Weeman 1, OSB 649.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Ian1779 · Aug 24, 2016

afan4life said:
yer spot on ...Sisu are renowned for reinvesting into the playing squad....65% and counting...see above

Of course yes - Joy is at home bricking it that she might not her 2 weeks in the Algarve if the attendances don't go up.

Lay off the Kool-Aid for a second.

johnwillomagic · Aug 24, 2016

Oh Brother the 10th-8th bloody budget again.....:arghh:

Where has all the money gone??? (5 Viewers)

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