Whinging Cotterill set to take charge for Forest tomorrow (1 Viewer)

SydneySkyBlue · Oct 15, 2011

kduffy said:
No my problem with Thorn is he just a SISU puppet. He will say a few things that will please the fans - "I'm going to play entertaining football" post Boothroyd, I love the club blah blah blah. So what he played football - so did Bobby Charlton - check his managerial record.

This is the worst start we have had in 90 years. Tell me if Peter Reid was manager would you honestly not blame him at all. Is Thorn completely blameless whatever happens?

The question is, how CAN you blame a manager when he hasn't been given the tools to do his job?

It's a miracle that we're not sitting bottom and thar we've even competed in the games we have. The plaudits for that go to guess who?

I fully agree with NLHWC. If we still had King up front we'd have put some of those games to bed rather than losing them. A team is only as good as its front 2. Never has a saying rung more true than with us this season.

Nonleagueherewecome · Oct 15, 2011

Black wouldn't leave Bruce's side for anything other than a top managers job, and most likely wouldn't want the hassle. And who could blame him after what McGinty did to him. He's way above our level. He had no money to spend, and did what AT did: gave previously discarded players a fresh chance and almost instantaneously turned some of them into our best players-notably McSheffrey, and Joachim who was suddenly interested again for the first time in 3 years of a wasted career!

You just have to look at how bad we were before Black, and after him under Reid, to see what an incredible job he was doing. Please God lets not repeat this pattern with Thorn.

Given your view of 2 such fine managers kduffy, I really do wonder at your logic. I know it's all about opinions and all that, but seriously- I find it hard to understand how a fellow City fan could so dislike the only 2 gaffers since relegation to give me any decent entertainment-or indeed sound like they know what they're doing!

Astute · Oct 15, 2011

kduffy said:
No my problem with Thorn is he just a SISU puppet. He will say a few things that will please the fans - "I'm going to play entertaining football" post Boothroyd, I love the club blah blah blah. So what he played football - so did Bobby Charlton - check his managerial record.

This is the worst start we have had in 90 years. Tell me if Peter Reid was manager would you honestly not blame him at all. Is Thorn completely blameless whatever happens?

The problem I have with Thorn is we are 100% percent relegated with him in charge and then he will be sacked anyway. With someone with managerial experience we may have a 5% survival chance - I would take the chance.

Thanks for sharing your lack of knowledge with us.

Relegation certainties with AT as boss? We are only 10 points off 5th place. We have two teams below us. So we can't do any better than any of the teams above us? We have dropped points at the end of games, for instance winning at 90 mins and losing or missing a penalty with the last kick of the game by someone who you expect to score penalties. Yes, AT has maybe made a few mistakes. He will be learning from them. Have you ever made any mistakes at work when you have taken a new job? If you did then did it make you sh1t at your job? Not everything is AT's fault. I suppose the other 23 managers in this league would do a better job than AT with the players we have :facepalm: Fook it, let's have another manager change. Who needs stability? We are playing our best football for years. We have the occasional bad game. Overall we are playing better. AT is a good talent spotter. I would give him the cash if we ever have any to strengthen the squad.

Anyone here remember when Fergie took over Manure? They were crap to start with. He did not have a lack of cash. They were shouting for him to be sacked. Luckily for them his board gave him time. He is now one of the most successful managers of all time.

I like the AT interviews. He says it how it is without saying it in straight words. Take your head for a braincell check. If you have more than is needed for bodily functions try using the remainder to listen and understand what he is saying. Most people know he has one of the hardest jobs in the Championship. Just a shame that some of his own clubs supporters do not realise this fact, and if they do then they should understand what is going on. So you want him to say it is SISU's fault? Get real.

Covstu · Oct 15, 2011

Bad news on the Cotterill appointment, he is a decent manager in my opinion but seems like a panic appointment though. I do disagree that Thorn is a poor manager, he has bugger all to work with and promises of money for loanees that have never materialised. This is the first time for long while that we have seen decent football up here and if we could only bring some stability into the midfield and a decent striker i think we would be safe this year.

Mumford and Daughter · Oct 15, 2011

Some of the fans on here are deluded. Thorn record speaks 4 wins in 22. That is appalling simple as.

Decent football? Last 6 games Weve had some 20 min periods but overall home and away the football been poor. So anyone on here go away games. Football been shocking.

I feel sorry for thorn but he's going to be our downfall eventually. And it'll be too late to stop the free fall by then

Astute · Oct 15, 2011

Deluded? No
Realistic? Yes

We all know we have a poor squad. We all know we have a poor midfield. We all know we need to play inexperienced youngsters. We all know we need a goalscorer to play off Juke. Even Doncaster are signing players whilst we stand still.

Do we need a scapegoat for what SISU have done to us? If so why should it be AT?

Mumford and Daughter · Oct 15, 2011

Deegan, Baker, BIgi, Clingan, Thomas, MCShefrey, Bell. We have plenty in midfield it's the diamond don't work for the players we have. McDonald was bought in by thorn to help Juke. Hasn't played in 3 games.

Like I say I feel sorry for thorn but he know what he was taking on. His tactics are questionable, his team selection is questionable and his substitutions are questionable. The players commitment for him questionable.

Astute · Oct 15, 2011

7 midfielders, not all been fit at same time. So max 6 midfielders at any time. Not exactly strong then. With limited players we can only play limited formations. We can't play 2 wingers without 2 wingers. We can't play with attacking midfielders without having attacking midfielders. Thomas 18, Bigi 17. Not that much experience. Cody not been match fit. Has he had an injury from playing and not being fit enough?

With such a small squad at his disposal the team half picks itself. I don't want to judge AT fully until we see what he can do with a proper squad. When he has a proper squad he can put out a proper team, not have his team choose itself as they are the fit players we have.

Mumford and Daughter · Oct 15, 2011

Astute. So you think the diamond formation works?

Nick · Oct 15, 2011

When teams put up a formation to cancel out the diamond we get overun and bossed in midfield!

Mumford and Daughter · Oct 15, 2011

Which seems to be every week at the moment. If any team done there homework on us then were screwed.

Astute · Oct 15, 2011

Deluded? No
Realistic? Yes

So with our available midfield what would you do if you were AT? I am not saying that the diamond is the best formation, but we don't have much of a midfield either. AT is on a hiding to nothing with some people. Play the youngsters then he is burning them out. When he don't play them he is not playing his strongest team. Maybe he thinks the diamond formation is the best for the players he has at his disposal. He can't do formations without the players that can play in the positions needed. Maybe he is playing to strengths, not playing how he wants to.

Mumford and Daughter · Oct 15, 2011

Well he uses the diamond formation far too often for my liking. He should play to combat the opposition. For example you say we haven't got a strong side so then we should be playing against the opposition weakness. It's what teams do to us. This is when a manager earns his crust.

Astute · Oct 15, 2011

I agree with the basis of what you are saying, but it would be the same as employing a builder to do work for you and not letting him have all the best tools for the job, but expecting a top job still. Can our inexperienced young players get the better of experienced pro's?

The best way of changing a game is to bring on players to do a certain job. We don't have them certain players we can even put on the bench. This means we can't bring them on. So AT can only change with the players he already has on the pitch or playing players out of position. If he plays players out of position then he will be at fault.

If it was up to me I would try Christie as RM. This way he could go forward as he likes but also help out in defence when needed. This would give us an extra midfielder to choose from, but also an extra defender on the pitch when needed. Then we would not be a player short at the back when he goes forward. We are getting hit by teams with pace, especially at the end of games. Hopefully they have been trying out new methods of play during the last couple of weeks. Yes, we need to be able to change the way we have been playing when needed, but AT needs the tools to do his job.

stupot07 · Oct 15, 2011

You say we have plenty in midfield but:
Bigi/Thomas are kids
Bell has never been good enough
Sheffers best days were 4 seasons ago
Clingan should be producing more
Deegan has either been injured or unfit, and a still unknown whether he is good enough.

Add in the mix that bell an sheffers are even worse out wide, which means we're limited to the formations we can play.

SkyBlue_Bear83 · Oct 15, 2011

Mumford and Daughter said:
Some of the fans on here are deluded. Thorn record speaks 4 wins in 22. That is appalling simple as.

Decent football? Last 6 games Weve had some 20 min periods but overall home and away the football been poor. So anyone on here go away games. Football been shocking.

I feel sorry for thorn but he's going to be our downfall eventually. And it'll be too late to stop the free fall by then

Not deluded but I don't see who we could realistically attract that could do a better job then Thorn, I don't think we can properly assess him until he is given at least some backing from the owners.
The main reason we are in the bottom 3 is because this one of the worst squads in a long time in terms of depth and quality not because of Thorns management. Thorn as manager has to take portion of the blame for being in the bottom 3 but the overriding factor is the squad is not good or experienced enough.

Astute · Oct 16, 2011

Mumford and Daughter said:
Some of the fans on here are deluded. Thorn record speaks 4 wins in 22. That is appalling simple as.

Decent football? Last 6 games Weve had some 20 min periods but overall home and away the football been poor. So anyone on here go away games. Football been shocking.

I feel sorry for thorn but he's going to be our downfall eventually. And it'll be too late to stop the free fall by then

Feeling any better now? 5 wins in 23 and only lost 1 home game in the last 10

At least I understand your user name now. Your initials say all I need to know

Moff · Oct 16, 2011

Astute said:
Feeling any better now? 5 wins in 23 and only lost 1 home game in the last 10

At least I understand your user name now. Your initials say all I need to know

Whilst i appreciate both your views and Mumfords, the above statement is a bit of a pathetic thing to say.

Nonleagueherewecome · Oct 16, 2011

Dunno, it made me laugh a bit! Although my anti-Mumford line that I've been resisting posting is based around the band (easy target!)

Anyway, although we're crap away, as someone who works alternate Saturdays and only makes the home games, at least I don't see us lose too often! I'm pretty darn happy with the home form if you consider the Derby, Blackpool, Reading and Notts F games

I think I want us to do really well (given the paltry budget) even if it means SISU stay for another 80 years, just so Mumford has to concede that Thorn is a good manager!

sky blue john · Oct 16, 2011

Mumford and Daughter said:
Well he uses the diamond formation far too often for my liking. He should play to combat the opposition. For example you say we haven't got a strong side so then we should be playing against the opposition weakness. It's what teams do to us. This is when a manager earns his crust.

So looks like your saying we should be scared of every team we play and not impose our own game !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

sky blue john · Oct 16, 2011

In terms of appointment of Cotterill, I don't really rate him majority of the players he had in the portmouth team were on 10-20k a week and he hasn't done anything with them. He won't last untill the end of the season.

wingy · Oct 16, 2011

I don't nessecarilly see his appointment as a negative to our chances tommorrow,they still obviously have a decent squad ,but there seems division within the ranks ,due to the new player influx, the dressing room dynamic of the last couple of years has been massively upset ,i don't see it being reconciled in one day. sorry could'nt resist crowing ,my post from page two of the thread ,thought it would be 2-0 though

Grendel · Oct 16, 2011

Mumford and Daughter said:
Astute. So you think the diamond formation works?

No the diamond formation with the players we have is ridiculous. We won yesterday because for once we played with some aggression, high balls and direct crossing. It was actually entertaining in the second half compared to the dull, sterile stuff we have had so far this season.

Grendel · Oct 16, 2011

Astute said:
Thanks for sharing your lack of knowledge with us.

Relegation certainties with AT as boss? We are only 10 points off 5th place. We have two teams below us. So we can't do any better than any of the teams above us? We have dropped points at the end of games, for instance winning at 90 mins and losing or missing a penalty with the last kick of the game by someone who you expect to score penalties. Yes, AT has maybe made a few mistakes. He will be learning from them. Have you ever made any mistakes at work when you have taken a new job? If you did then did it make you sh1t at your job? Not everything is AT's fault. I suppose the other 23 managers in this league would do a better job than AT with the players we have :facepalm: Fook it, let's have another manager change. Who needs stability? We are playing our best football for years. We have the occasional bad game. Overall we are playing better. AT is a good talent spotter. I would give him the cash if we ever have any to strengthen the squad.

Anyone here remember when Fergie took over Manure? They were crap to start with. He did not have a lack of cash. They were shouting for him to be sacked. Luckily for them his board gave him time. He is now one of the most successful managers of all time.

I like the AT interviews. He says it how it is without saying it in straight words. Take your head for a braincell check. If you have more than is needed for bodily functions try using the remainder to listen and understand what he is saying. Most people know he has one of the hardest jobs in the Championship. Just a shame that some of his own clubs supporters do not realise this fact, and if they do then they should understand what is going on. So you want him to say it is SISU's fault? Get real.

If Peter Reid was manager would you be so supportive? The point being is that I believe the only reason Thorn is supported is his lack of knowledge in the job. The point I made about Eric Black was perhaps not well made. What I meant was that in manager polls he is always top to be the next Coventry manager. That is idiotic as he has never wanted to be a manager again and shows a Utopian unrealism amongst many supporters.

The problem you have is that you must be a SISU fan. Because I will gaurentee you one thing, a new owner would dispense with Thorn on day one.

Astute · Oct 16, 2011

So if yu think that Thorn is not doing too bad with the squad he has then you are a SISU supporter?

Astute · Oct 17, 2011

And why can't the fans want Black after his record with us? We want a bigger squad. Don't mean we can have one. We want better players. Don't mean we will get them. We want to be in the Prem.......

Grendel · Oct 17, 2011

No that I am not.

I guess there is no point in arguing the Thorn issue anymore. My main bone of contention is that lack of resource does not mean you are immune from criticism. In my job I am forever given stretch targets with continued diminishing resource and I have to make it work. That is life and I cannot use the resource issue as an excuse. Also I know for a fact if he was a more experienced manager (and less liked) no-one would give him an inch.

I will let it go at that.

Astute · Oct 17, 2011

We have had more experienced managers than AT other than Black. They have all had money to spend, bigger squads and players of their choice. How well have they done for us other than Black? Wise carried us the part of the season we had him, otherwise it has been relegation battles. Now we have AT who pulled a rabbit out of a hat at the end of the season and saved our arse. He now has the weakest squad I have ever known for us. Even all the bookies expect us to go down. This is not because of who our manager is. Our home form is good enough for promotion/playoffs. Our away form is letting us down badly. To me we are doing as well as could be hoped for with our squad. I always hope for more though. If we can sort out our away form then anything can happen. We have only lost one of our last twn home games. Nothing to do with AT I suppose.

Mumford and Daughter · Oct 17, 2011

You lot really need to take your Andy Thorn is great glasess off. Yes we won and on the 2nd half performance we probably deserved it but that first half was woeful anyone who begs to differ is deluded. 2nd half we went at them and looked good in stages but don’t let the result assume were a good team again. I couldn’t believe how poor Forest was especially with the team on paper.

But yet again we didn’t play well for 90 mins. Only 45 mins.
And what makes me laugh more, we played direct football similar to boothroyd days saturday and people think Thorn is great for it. Pot kettle black. You had fans the other week saying rather see entertaining football then results.

bobbymac · Oct 17, 2011

Good posts even I don't agree with them all.

Cotterill is a good manager but was very surprised he left Pompey for Forest. Was starting to turn things around down there but now left???

I don't know why people are critical of AT as I haven't seen anything to be critical about. SH is the coach and he has an international beckground. I think many posts on here dislike him because 1) he doesn't have experience, well no one does at the beginning 2) he is SISU's puppet. where do you get that from? He has to go along with them as they are the owners. If they sacked him and brought someone else in isn't that person SISU's puppet too? I don't understand the logic in that assertion.

AT will get better. He already is one of the best scouts in the division and with SH alongside him he will learn alot. Also I disagree with he was the cheap option. When AB went SH and AT took over as caretakers. They did better than anyone thought they would and played decent football too. I believe that was the reason for their promotion.

wingy · Oct 17, 2011

M+D ,i don't think i had my goggles on ,on saturday ,but i did'nt see the same first half as you and otis and a few others ,i think some are being over critical,it was a similar approach to under AB last seasson in the successful period of the season ,where the team focused on keeping the shape for the first 15-20 minutes.My guess is thorn and Harrison expected an onsluaght from a rejuvinated Forrest due to the manager change ,did'nt happen as i predicted.once we got past that stage i thought we were fine ,Murphy only had to make two saves first half ,second half we were absolutely bombing ,it could been three to us but for woodwork and Camp,it only petered out as a result the 10 mins of injuries .i thought we actually became shakier at the back with Dunns introduction,not a critism just obsrevation,as some,including me, after the derby game reckoned he was the better of the two ,not the case on saturday.Credit where credits due ,good team performance ,no one had a bad game.

Mumford and Daughter · Oct 17, 2011

That first half was a poor game of football from both teams. Fair play to Thorn his half time speech did the trick but the direct approach last year was getting ridiculed by fans because it was boothroyd. When Thorn does the same, it’s a masterclass.

See where im coming from?

stupot07 · Oct 17, 2011

M&D I agree it was a more direct approach from the team but it was still mixed in with passing football, and trying to work the ball out wide to the fullbacks. It was much more a mixed approach than the aimless hoof forward under bothroyd - the stats say we edged possession (52%). Under Boothroyd we rarely had more than 45% of the possession because the aimless forward ball squandered possession so easily.

Nonleagueherewecome · Oct 17, 2011

Mumford and Daughter said:
You lot really need to take your Andy Thorn is great glasess offQUOTE]

And you really need to take your "Andy Thorn is shit" glasses off! At least you don't seem to be advocating a return to 1980's hoofball like kduffy is doing (yeah, that worked just swell last season, didn't it? :facepalm:.) How you can think what we saw Saturday was long ball is mind-boggling.

Oh and I'm deluded in your book anyway as although we were relatively poor in the first half, we were gritty and hard-working and certainly didn't deserve to be behind. 2nd half, we were the team that came out fired up, and had a lot more energy left in the tank. Is the game played over 45 minutes Mumford, or 90? (or even 100 sometimes!)

Mumford and Daughter · Oct 17, 2011

Stu - agree.

NLHWC - Were you watching a different game? We used the long ball loads in the game and it worked. We gave the ball away plenty of times 1st half and the football was poor. You say gritty but i’d use poor. There were 2 poor sides there Saturday and the football was of a very low standard. But end of the day, win’s a win and with the games coming up its the confidence boost much needed.
There was nothing entertaining bout saturday but i was happy with the 3 points and thats the important thing.

We need to play for the full 90 mins otherwise better teams would have been 2 up by half time.

Whinging Cotterill set to take charge for Forest tomorrow (1 Viewer)

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