Why are Man U crap now? (3 Viewers)

[oucho]

Should have known better than to back Utd against Palace as part of my accumulator yesterday - in my annoyance I tried to reflect on why they've been so poor since SAF retired.

I say "poor", they won the UEFA Cup, the FA Cup, League Cup, finished 2nd last season in what would have been a competitive points total in most seasons, and also got to the cup final last season.

But let's face it, they haven't competed for the league since SAF went away despite spunking gazillions. I would definitely not blame their owners who had made funds available, but they seem to have a team of misfits who can't coherently play together. No way should a squad containing Pogba, Mata, Rashford, Lukaku, Martial, Sanchez and Lingaard be 7th in the league, 14 points behind the leaders, with a negative goal difference.

So what's gone wrong and how can they fix it?

 

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[Nick]

I hope it carries on.

 

[lifeskyblue]

The supporters will fix it by swapping their red scarves for sky blue ones and still travel from the south of England to watch.

As for the club they could start by getting rid of a ‘safety first’ style manager for one who plays to the teams strengths. They could also stop and think whether to spend another wedge of money on flair players where it is crystal clear a central defender or two is what is most needed


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[Nick]

They should probably get Pogba, Lingaard etc to stop dancing round and acting like twats while they are at it.

Imagine Roy Keane or Fergie stood watching them prancing about.

 

[steve82]

According to my Man Utd friend who’s a frequent visitor to Old Trafford the finger points towards Ed Woodward.

Ed Woodward has overseen the transfers since the very first one with David Moyes, it seems he’s not up to the role like David Gill was with Sir Alex.

He’s failed to secure the managers targets and secured the ones he’s liked on the managers list.

You’ve got to many individuals in the side too and not enough team players


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[Gazolba]

7th in the EPL is crap ? What are CCFC then?

 

[Terry Gibson's perm]

They have signed the wrong sort of players for far too much money, people like Sanchez who are on the way down and only moved there because they offered more money than Man City. Pogba is a good player but there are far better around for a lot less and a lot less hassle.

Jose now looks a bit of a dinosaur and he lost his long standing assistant and replaced him with untried Carrick

 

[M&B Stand]

7th in the EPL is crap ? What are CCFC then?

Dont know. Certainly not comparable with Manchester United.

 

[oucho]

Not going well for them today....perhaps they can change their kit at half time, that'll help.

 

[lifeskyblue]

Not going well for them today....perhaps they can change their kit at half time, that'll help.

Or their manager, or their shape, or their players.


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[clint van damme]

If they got rid of Jose I'd like to see Eddie Howe given the job.
Be interesting to see how he got on at a big club.

 

[lifeskyblue]

And now look like winning it.


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[stupot07]

Interesting stats around work rate and sprints compared to the rest of the league and in their league games this season. Think they were 16th out if 20 for work rate and every team they have Played have worked harder than them.

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[clint van damme]

Interesting stats around work rate and sprints compared to the rest of the league and in their league games this season. Think they were 16th out if 20 for work rate and every team they have Played have worked harder than them.

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Pogba must bring their score down considerably.
Superb on his day but I've seen a few games, (and I'll be honest I watch less top flight football now than I ever have), where he literally strolls about looking disinterested.

 

[oucho]

Interesting stats around work rate and sprints compared to the rest of the league and in their league games this season. Think they were 16th out if 20 for work rate and every team they have Played have worked harder than them.

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No point running round if you don't know what you're meant to be doing.

 

[steve82]

If they got rid of Jose I'd like to see Eddie Howe given the job.
Be interesting to see how he got on at a big club.

Yes, I’d like to see that too... however fundamental issues are still present that the current manager, previous manager and one before.... will still be present with a unbalanced side too.

Until Woodward changes his stance on transfers the manager will always struggle.

Interesting stats around work rate and sprints compared to the rest of the league and in their league games this season. Think they were 16th out if 20 for work rate and every team they have Played have worked harder than them.

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Pogba must bring their score down considerably.
Superb on his day but I've seen a few games, (and I'll be honest I watch less top flight football now than I ever have), where he literally strolls about looking disinterested.

On Pogba, I was listening to the radio commentary in the car and Stuart Pearce pointed out the fact it took 35/40 mins to make his first 30 yard burst to open a space to take a defender opening the door for a team mate.

Player with phenomenal talent but plays when he decides. A luxury player who’s a waste of space for too often in games.


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[oucho]

If they got rid of Jose I'd like to see Eddie Howe given the job.
Be interesting to see how he got on at a big club.

After the Moyes fiasco they will never again give the job to someone without Champs League experience plus a wealth of medals behind him. Maybe that's wrong but that'll be their stance.

Next Man U manager? Zidane has been touted, wonder if they could poach Pochettino from Spurs...or maybe bring in Conte??

 

[steve82]

After the Moyes fiasco they will never again give the job to someone without Champs League experience plus a wealth of medals behind him. Maybe that's wrong but that'll be their stance.

Next Man U manager? Zidane has been touted, wonder if they could poach Pochettino from Spurs...or maybe bring in Conte??

They have that in Jose, had that in Van Gaal. Altered little in terms of performances and consistency.

The bigger issue is Woodward. If Woodward had of backed Moyes get in his transfers that first summer as with Jose this summer maybe the side would be performing better.


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[oucho]

They have that in Jose, had that in Van Gaal. Altered little in terms of performances and consistency.

The bigger issue is Woodward. If Woodward had of backed Moyes get in his transfers that first summer as with Jose this summer maybe the side would be performing better.


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But Van Gaal and Jose have at least won trophies and qualified for the Champs League. Moyes was much further off the pace than them.

I agree Woodward is overpromoted and they need someone else. They have admitted that when Jose goes they will be getting a director of football to take on the football and recruitment strategy/operations, leaving Woodward to focus on the non football side of the business i.e. commercial operations etc. This person will not be appointed whilst Jose in charge though due to the predictable effect that would have on His Grumpiness.

 

[steve82]

But Van Gaal and Jose have at least won trophies and qualified for the Champs League. Moyes was much further off the pace than them.

I agree Woodward is overpromoted and they need someone else. They have admitted that when Jose goes they will be getting a director of football to take on the football and recruitment strategy/operations, leaving Woodward to focus on the non football side of the business i.e. commercial operations etc. This person will not be appointed whilst Jose in charge though due to the predictable effect that would have on His Grumpiness.

Yeah Woodward is too commercially focused, you can see that in the players he goes all out to get as they have merchandise value and helps on the stock market figures.

Football is money driven but to generate success it needs the balance of superstars and your grafters.

Personally I think Moyes had the most difficult job in football in taking over a Utd side from a footballing legend in need of a revamp to which his targets set out to Woodward he then failed to get.

I can also see why Jose is deflated, was he hired as the manager or the coach because if it’s the manager he’s been undermined by a numbers and figures man.


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[oucho]

I agree with 75 percent of that, except the last bit - Jose has had the budget to compete for the title and has spunked millions of a bunch of players who do not fit together into a team.

 

[steve82]

I agree with 75 percent of that, except the last bit - Jose has had the budget to compete for the title and has spunked millions of a bunch of players who do not fit together into a team.

That’s the point, That largely falls with Woodward’s policy of getting the deals done to land superstars/individuals with merchandise value but the other targets to gel it together he dont complete.

Now naturally a few signings haven’t worked or payed off but then that’s football even Sir Alex had them players. It is bizarre Sanchez is a shadow of the player at Arsenal but again some players fit certain clubs.

I’m not saying Jose is blameless as he has some accountability but it’s all at Woodward’s door. The greatest loss with Sir Alex was David Gill it seems


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[oucho]

That’s the point, That largely falls with Woodward’s policy of getting the deals done to land superstars/individuals with merchandise value but the other targets to gel it together he dont complete.

Now naturally a few signings haven’t worked or payed off but then that’s football even Sir Alex had them players. It is bizarre Sanchez is a shadow of the player at Arsenal but again some players fit certain clubs.

I’m not saying Jose is blameless as he has some accountability but it’s all at Woodward’s door. The greatest loss with Sir Alex was David Gill it seems


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I think there are managers who would get a lot more out of a team with Man U's current attacking resources. You can't lay THAT at Woodward's door (although the rest of your comments on him are bang on).

 

[SkyblueBazza]

Who cares? Just enjoy it while it last, I say

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[steve82]

I think there are managers who would get a lot more out of a team with Man U's current attacking resources. You can't lay THAT at Woodward's door (although the rest of your comments on him are bang on).

Well yes a initial change in approach could get more in a attacking sense as it seems Jose isn’t setting up that way.

Matters are made worse by the noisy neighbours playing a expensive brand and the constant press focus that is the English media.

But then looking at the utd side he sent out and changes made he’s made some bizarre choices tonight


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[oucho]

Who cares? Just enjoy it while it last, I say

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You say that Baz, but I do think the Premier is a bit lacking these days without United's scintillating attacking that they had in the Fergie era. Imagine the PL now as it is but with UTD playing even at the standard of 2013, by no means a vintage year for them back then.

As many have said, Fergie could walk the league with this United side although he'd make sure to buy some decent centre halves ASAP to shore up the back line.

 

[steve82]

Stats like this sum up everything

Loss of possession v Southampton by Utd minus Paul Pogba 16
Loss of possession by Paul Pogba 14

Shocking at that level


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[steve82]

You say that Baz, but I do think the Premier is a bit lacking these days without United's scintillating attacking that they had in the Fergie era. Imagine the PL now as it is but with UTD playing even at the standard of 2013, by no means a vintage year for them back then.

As many have said, Fergie could walk the league with this United side although he'd make sure to buy some decent centre halves ASAP to shore up the back line.

Ironically the very position Jose was wanting to do business in the summer, was it 5 or more names they were linked with in the papers.


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[oucho]

Ironically the very position Jose was wanting to do business in the summer, was it 5 or more names they were linked with in the papers.


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The powers that be at OT probably didn't trust him after he spent a combined 60 million on Lindelof and Bailly

 

[SkyblueBazza]

You say that Baz, but I do think the Premier is a bit lacking these days without United's scintillating attacking that they had in the Fergie era. Imagine the PL now as it is but with UTD playing even at the standard of 2013, by no means a vintage year for them back then.

As many have said, Fergie could walk the league with this United side although he'd make sure to buy some decent centre halves ASAP to shore up the back line.

Lacking? It is a case of City providing the scintillating football instead of Utd.

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[Captain Dart]

Should have known better than to back Utd against Palace as part of my accumulator yesterday - in my annoyance I tried to reflect on why they've been so poor since SAF retired.

I say "poor", they won the UEFA Cup, the FA Cup, League Cup, finished 2nd last season in what would have been a competitive points total in most seasons, and also got to the cup final last season.

But let's face it, they haven't competed for the league since SAF went away despite spunking gazillions. I would definitely not blame their owners who had made funds available, but they seem to have a team of misfits who can't coherently play together. No way should a squad containing Pogba, Mata, Rashford, Lukaku, Martial, Sanchez and Lingaard be 7th in the league, 14 points behind the leaders, with a negative goal difference.

So what's gone wrong and how can they fix it?

Who cares, it's entertaining to watch. Odds on Jose will get his P45 this summer.

 

[oucho]

Lacking? It is a case of City providing the scintillating football instead of Utd.

I mean how good would it be if Man U played like that as well!

Who cares, it's entertaining to watch. Odds on Jose will get his P45 this summer.

It may well be prior to the end of the season Captain, in which case you'd lose that odds on bet.[/QUOTE]

 

[Captain Dart]

By & large I don't bet, unless a weekly lottery ticket counts. :cigar:

 

[oucho]

By & large I don't bet, unless a weekly lottery ticket counts. :cigar:

I just mean I doubt he will make it as far as the summer at this rate.

 

[tisza]

Apparently finally Mourinho called out Pogba yesterday as a virus that is infecting the whole team.
You can't carry passengers in the PL.
Plenty of talent at Utd but if your key mid and supposed leader.isn't turning up then you're heading for trouble.
Watched the game Sat pm and he was awful. He'd be getting pelters from any fans of any side "playing" like that. Just wasn't interested - shocking