why we are so dissatisfied with SISU and could we expect any better off new owners? (1 Viewer)

grego_gee said:

This is the list grouping the items together under headings and taking out duplicates. I think some of the areas are more the owner’s responsibility than others e.g. you can’t expect owners to score more goals! This isn’t complete and there may be omissions, that’s why I hadn’t posted it before. I offer it now for others to focus their thought and develop more if wanted – obviously that won’t interest the “out-louts” who I already know just think SISU are rubbish full stop and would prefer no owner at all!
Funding
(I think this is the prime responsibility of any owner)
SISU have funded us moderately well in the third division?
selling promising academy players before they even play a full season for the club
stripped our squad leaving us with a poor quality squad
Sold players well below their potential market value
Been responsible for losing the first successful manager City has had in many years to a rival club before he completed a full season
Given ludicrous contracts to the likes of David Bell, Malaga
And least of all, our financial situation seems incredible. How can we have debts of eight times our annual turnover? Just think that ratio through a few times. It's startling

Embarrassment
(I don’t consider embarrassment to be very relevant, if they were embarrassing and successful would anyone worry?)
The SISU legacy is one of embarrassment.
Let us be viewed as shameful cheats by those with their own house in order?
been a negative influence on our reputation in footballing circles.
Made a debt free claim that appears a sham now loading £60M debt on CCFC Ltd
look at the fiasco of the Chief Executive sitting on the bench
the appointment of American Twitter merchant Leonard Brody
Our company structure is so complex as to be bewildering
it takes a forensic accountant to understand who owns what or whom?
Constant lack of communication with the fans
we don’t even know what our owner looks like?

Team Performance
(they may take some blame for this area but is not that something that they delegate to their chosen manager?)
Led us to relegation to Division 3
the Lowest league position in three generations,
with dwindling gates,
and no long term plan.

Company performance
(certainly an area which they are responsible and can be criticised)
Company accounts incessantly late, leading to annual transfer embargos,
driven us into a third party debt order,
Now administration

Relationship/dealing with Council Landlord
(an area where they have responsibility but clouded by those on the other side of the fence)
refusing to pay any rent at all (including an amount deemed fair)
reneging on a seemingly very fair deal?
Failed to buy 50% stake in ACL (when they said they were going to)
our ownership (or part ownership) of the Ricoh is more distant than ever
Even our academy is homeless

...perhaps you would like to give us half a dozen examples of where SISU has been acting in the best interests of CCFC...
Funding
Continued to fund the club through thick and thin,
they are still with us despite problems and criticism
taken over all our debt leaving the club debt free (other than to them)
Funded the second highest valued squad in the division
Continued to Fund the Academy
planned the development of the academy to level 2
Funded the signing of King
Funded the signing of McGoldrick
Funded the signing of Leon Clark

Relationship/dealing with Council Landlord
Battled to free us from an onerous rent deal with the ACL/Council establishment,
even been prepared to consider building a new ground that we can own.
paid full rent of over £1M for five? years
Despite contrary views paid at least £800k last year in rent.

Company performance
Sacked Brody and Delieu
appointed Tim Fisher and Steve Waggott
Recruited and appointed Mark Robbins
Recruited and appointed Steven Pressley

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Sick Boy said:

Football fans expect owners to pump in loads of their own money into clubs as a gift, and when this money is gone, they should leave quietly for someone else to do the same.

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bigfatronssba said:

Are you happy with how the club has been run the past 5 years?

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grego_gee said:

I realize that I am swimming against the tide on here much of the time.
Although most posters take it as a given that SISU are the pits I do not see it as that obvious.
In fact suppose Leon Clark had not been injured at the back end of the season, we could very well have made the playoffs at least.
How can that be so bad? And surely people would not have been dissatisfied then?
Indulge me for a little while to investigate with you why we are so dissatisfied with SISU and could we expect any better off new owners.

On a previous thread I invited people to say why they were so dissatisfied with SISU.
I was then challenged to give examples where SISU has been acting in the best interests of CCFC...
Here are the comments all brought together, I will try and categorize them into 5 areas in the next post
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I think you can call it the best squad in L1 when we are top
by the same measure we had the best squad in the championship
We're meant to be grateful that they've funded us moderately well in the third division?
How about the fact we shouldn't even be here in the third division?
The SISU legacy is one of unfailing demise into embarrassment.
Lowest league position in three generations,
annual transfer embargo,
accounts incessantly late,
a debt free claim that appears a sham,
dwindling gates,
no long term plan.
Now administration
You mean refusing to pay any rent at all (including an amount deemed fair)
which may have staved off any threat of administration and the resultant points deduction?
You mean reneging on a seemingly very fair deal which would've avoided this whole sorry mess so the only discussions we'd be having were about the team and formation for tomorrow?
Are you saying that loading £60M debt on CCFC Ltd is in the clubs intrests.
Are you saying selling promising academy players before they even play a full season for the club is in the clubs intrests.
Are you saying entering transfer embargos on a regular basis is in the clubs intrests.
Are you saying the fiasco of the Chief Executive sitting on the bench is in the clubs intrests.
Are you saying demotion to Division 3 for the first time in 49 years is in the clubs intrests.
Are you saying losing the first successful manager City has had in many years to a rival club before he completed a full season is in the clubs intrests.
are you serious? If you are then you really are clueless
I also don't think one can understate the negative influence on our reputation in footballing circles. Jimmy Hill made us a proud club. We had one day of true glory, and competed - albeit only just - for over thirty years. We were, to the biggest, small fry: but respected small fry.
The slide started well before SISU, let's be clear, but as Manchester City and Southampton have done, we should have been steered back to a reasonable level. There was the promise of a debt free blank canvas to work from.
How do we have so much debt so soon? How can we not even know what our owner looks like?
How does it take a forensic accountant to understand who owns what or whom?
Why should we be viewed as shameful cheats by those with their house in order?
1. stripped our squad that lead us to relegation
2. constantly said we were debt free only to reveal we are £60 million in debt
3. allowed Ken Delieu to sit in the dug out
4. appointed Leonard Brody
5. Appointed Onye Igwe
6. Sold players well below their potential market value
7. Never took the opportunity to buy 50% stake in ACL, said they were going to
8. Constant lack of communication with the fans
9. Failure to file accounts on time
10. Transfer embargo's placed on us
11. Average attendance dropped to about 9k since they took over
12. Gave ludicrous contracts to the likes of David Bell
Our league position speaks for itself
The quality of our squad speaks for itself
Our dwindling crowds speak volumes
Our company structure is so complex as to be bewildering
We've been led to a position in which our ownership (or part ownership) of the Ricoh - critical to our success - under current management is further distant than ever
We have a winding up order, third party debt order and transfer embargo in place: now capped off by administration
Even our academy isn't currently able to conduct it's business at it's normal venue
And least of all, our financial situation seems incredible. How can we have debts of eight times annual turnover? Just think that ratio through a few times. It's startling
...perhaps you would like to give us half a dozen examples of where SISU has been acting in the best interests of CCFC...
Funding the second highest valued squad in the division
Continuing to Fund the Acadamy and planning its development to level 2
Funding the signing of McGoldrick
Funding the signing of Leon Clark

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Sick Boy said:

No of course not, the continued employment of Thorn sums them up. Funny that he was lauded on here though by many, so surely these people must feel sisu did something right in their time here?

It was hardly going well before sisu came in though, was it? They simply delayed what was going to be inevitable.

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bigfatronssba said:

Grego, can you name just one area where the club has improved since Sisu took over?

I expect any new owner to at least improve the club in some way.

They have done nothing.

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grego_gee said:

Gone for lunch!

imp:

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grego_gee said:

Thanks for a reasonable response Ron, but I'm not trying to impose my views on everybody. I want people to examine their own views of SISU as an owner and what more we could expect? but...(quoting from the above)
Suppose Leon Clark had not been injured at the back end of the season, we could very well have made the playoffs at least.
How can that be so bad? And surely people would not have been dissatisfied then?

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stupot07 said:

The academy? When did Rioch come? I honestly can't remember.

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grego_gee said:

Thanks for a reasonable response Ron, but I'm not trying to impose my views on everybody. I want people to examine their own views of SISU as an owner and what more we could expect? but...(quoting from the above)
Suppose Leon Clark had not been injured at the back end of the season, we could very well have made the playoffs at least.
How can that be so bad? And surely people would not have been dissatisfied then?

imp:

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grego_gee said:

Thanks for a reasonable response Ron, but I'm not trying to impose my views on everybody. I want people to examine their own views of SISU as an owner and what more we could expect? but...(quoting from the above)
Suppose Leon Clark had not been injured at the back end of the season, we could very well have made the playoffs at least.
How can that be so bad? And surely people would not have been dissatisfied then?

imp:

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grego_gee said:

...perhaps you would like to give us half a dozen examples of where SISU has been acting in the best interests of CCFC... - Well This will be fun
Funding
Continued to fund the club through thick and thin, Run up massive debts, loaning the club money at massivly inflated interest rates while saddling the club with massive management fees that they do not deserve.
they are still with us despite problems and criticism - This is a bad thing, they have done untold damage to the club and still won't go, determind to take us down further.
taken over all our debt leaving the club debt free (other than to them) - we are not debt free other than to them, and to them we owe a massive 70 million with the interest running up fast.
Funded the second highest valued squad in the division - Our squad is not the second highest valued, it might have the second highest wages, but that just shows inefficiency, if every player in every club went up for sale, the amount we would get would no where near put us second, this is their value.
Continued to Fund the Academy
planned the development of the academy to level 2
Funded the signing of King - Failed to keep King, getting us relegated.
Funded the signing of McGoldrick - Did not sign McGoldrick, got him on loan for half a season, he was our most important player, failed to keep him and our season went down hill from there.
Funded the signing of Leon Clark - Yep, gotta get one eventually.

Relationship/dealing with Council Landlord
Battled to free us from an onerous rent deal with the ACL/Council establishment, - Failed to agree a deal that was 3 times better than the old one, alienated the fans, broken trust so no one will deal with them again, took us into administration, got us deducted at least 10 points and you consider this a good thing?
even been prepared to consider building a new ground that we can own. - and we don't know what size it will be, when it will be ready, where it will be located, we do know they want to move us to walsal for 3-5 years, causing untold damage and almost certainly relegated us.
paid full rent of over £1M for five? years - Met contractual obligations, wow, didn't last though.
Despite contrary views paid at least £800k last year in rent. - No They didn't, I'd argue the point but why bother you've heard the reasons 100 times and still believe fallacies. You are beyond help.

Company performance
Sacked Brody and Delieu - Hired Brody and Delieu and plenty of other failures too.
appointed Tim Fisher and Steve Waggott - Steve Waggott seems good, but suggesting one good thing SISU did for us is hiring Tim Fisher is your most hilarious point yet.
Recruited and appointed Mark Robbins - For half a season, failed to keep him because they wouldn't pay rent, ruining our season and the very real chance of getting back to the championship. Costing us many millions a year.
Recruited and appointed Steven Pressley - Who might be good, who might not be good, doesn't seem to be watching the same game as anyone else but hasn't had a chance to prove himself, record so far is terrible though but with good reason.

imp: - Yep you are sure smoking something.

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dadgad said:

Sorry Grego,
Compare attendances six years ago with this years'.
That's the bottom line as far as club management goes.
So, Sisu - as a chocolate teapot is to tea making - fecking useless.

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Grendel said:

So pure attendances is the barometer of successful ownership would you say?

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Noggin said:

It's indicative for sure, but of course does not tell the entire story, but if this goes ahead and we got 17.3k in 2010 and 3.4k in 2014 then sure from that alone you could judge if the ownership had been successful or not, (hint for you, not so much)

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grego_gee said:

I think SISU regarded it as an either/or,
either we gained promotion or they took ACL to task over the rent.
They did lodge an appeal against the 10 pts but released it when they saw that the reality was the points had gone without Clark. The rent dispute would perhaps not have got to where it has if promotion had been within our grasp.

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grego_gee said:

On funding there is now a ceiling (FFP) and any new owner could not do more than fund us to the full extent of FFP - which SISU already do and have said they can (and will) continue to do.


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