Would another promotion propel Robins into the same legendary status as Jimmy Hill (1 Viewer)

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

I agree with most of what you say, I just feel that you are a little harsh on JH when you say he left us in the lurch. If you read his autobiography it explains the circumstances. He wanted a ten year contract, Robbins, the chairman at the time, wouldn’t agree. However Jimmy says that he was disappointed that the board never came back to him with a compromise offer. It sounded like he very much wanted to stay but no talks took place. He also agreed to stay on as manager until a new man was appointed. He consequently managed the club for the first 12 matches in the first division, rather than simply walking away. I wonder where the club would have got to if he had stayed as at that time and in that era, winning the league was open to virtually any club who were managed and well run and wasn’t ring fenced by money in favour of whoever is in the current top six as in the PL today.
I really like MR, liked him first time he was here and was really pleased he came back. I don’t know why but this club and Robins just seem to suit each other. However, for me he has some way to go to compete with someone like JH who transformed everything about Coventry City. In a list of all time managers I would say he was behind Hill, Sillett Milne and Storer, not that I was around during the latter’s time in charge.

Good points. I guess part of it is that "what might have been" had he not gone into TV. Similar with the stories of Clough agreeing to join us but we weren't willing to wait for him to become available.

 

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[ccfc_Tom]

If he got us back to the prem i would consider him a legend

 

[Liquid Gold]

Nowhere near.

Hill was an innovator that turned a small provincial club into a 1st division team while completely revolutionising the fan experience, how players are rewarded and what it means to be a football club.

Robins has done an excellent job under difficult circumstances and there are few that could do better but it takes more than being a good football manager to be thought of in a similar way to JH.

 

[bawtryneal]

No Sillets record and history was far better than robins whose performing at s very different level

Hill as a manager clearly was a massive innovator as well as his record of achievement

Serious question regarding Sillet as my memory has faded with time ( 30'plus years now) ...........
What do you (or anybody else who would like to comment) think George Curtis contribution was to the success in the mid 80s. I remember they had defined roles and GC was more like a modern day Director of football but we always sang "George and Johns Sky blue army"

Was it JS 80% and GC 20% or 50/50 or ???

 

[Paxman II]

It would be a remarkable acheivement should he do so. Through the divisions and under such circumstances off the pitch. That would make him a legend for sure.
Comparing him to JH though would be irresponsible. JH changed the football club forever, the experience, the identity, and set precedents along the way. He put CCFC on the map and after winning promotion to the top flight in 1967, the club went on to enjoy an unbroken 34 years in the top flight until their more recent demise, which would have Jimmy turning in his grave.

 

[Mild-Mannered Janitor]

Sillet era was amazing, the finishes in the league and cup runs were just brilliant away days. To me, he is the best ever because of the achievements at the top level.

Hill achieved something for the whole club, not just the team so comparison is not always easy, he avoided taking the challenge of the top division.

Robins is doing something great with the players and wants to play a certain way and not afraid to stick at it with the players and his philosophy.

Others have done well in stints, G is right about Phil Neal but not that was boring at times.

For me:
1. Sillet
2. Hull
Last. Tied between Thorn and Slade

 

[Grendel]

Serious question regarding Sillet as my memory has faded with time ( 30'plus years now) ...........
What do you (or anybody else who would like to comment) think George Curtis contribution was to the success in the mid 80s. I remember they had defined roles and GC was more like a modern day Director of football but we always sang "George and Johns Sky blue army"

Was it JS 80% and GC 20% or 50/50 or ???

80 / 20 despite what Magwitch says. Regis pretty much admits Sillett saved his career

 

[COVKIDSNEVERQUIT]

I wonder where the club would have got to if he had stayed as at that time and in that era, winning the league was open to virtually any club who were managed and well run and wasn’t ring fenced by money in favour of whoever is in the current top six as in the PL today.

If JH had stayed at the club, I don't think we would have had years of fighting relegation, probably top 6.

 

[Grendel]

If JH had stayed at the club, I don't think we would have had years of fighting relegation, probably top 6.

We were top 6 the next season after the first without him

 

[COVKIDSNEVERQUIT]

We were top 6 the next season after the first without him

Yes, but for only one season, we had to many years fighting relegation.

 

[Legia Sky Blue]

When Sillett & Curtis took over, it was after 3 seasons of final day relegation escapes. Although both had long associations with the club, Curtis was an iconic figure to many fans, much like Dublin is to our fans of a more recent generation, and he was revered as a player. Sillett was the coach and manager, and having Curtis on the ticket to start with took a lot of pressure off Sillett. It was never 50/50 in reality though, and Sillett was definitely the more influential manager of the two of them.

 

[Grendel]

Yes, but for only one season, we had to many years fighting relegation.

It’s an interesting discussion because of course we lost a lot of money when he was chairman as he plundered a lot into into the US

 

[COVKIDSNEVERQUIT]

It’s an interesting discussion because of course we lost a lot of money when he was chairman as he plundered a lot into into the US

How many years was JH on match of the day before he became Chairman ?

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

If we were to get promoted with Robins as manager to the Championship, he will be a club legend in his own right. Even now, he's taken us from perhaps our darkest chapter to date to a promising chapter despite the existential crisis of where we'll play our football every season hes been there. The footballing community recognises what a great job Robins is doing for us.

I wouldn't put him in the same bracket as Jimmy Hill or Sillett because the contexts are different. If MR were to take us from L2 to Premiership, then perhaps it would be fair to call him our greatest manager of all time.

 

[fellatio_Martinez]

yes yes yes

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

This really is an apples v oranges comparison but the essence being that Hill took the club from the 3rd tier to the top flight and revolutionised it in the process. Robins has restored L1 status after the 16/17 humiliation and if he made it into the second tier while groundsharing he’d have done bloody well. He also deserves some credit for repairing some of the links between club and fan. But he would need to achieve the unthinkable to get parity with the Chin.

Certainly in the FL era there are few rivals to his stats

 

[Magwitch]

I agree with most of what you say, I just feel that you are a little harsh on JH when you say he left us in the lurch. If you read his autobiography it explains the circumstances. He wanted a ten year contract, Robbins, the chairman at the time, wouldn’t agree. However Jimmy says that he was disappointed that the board never came back to him with a compromise offer. It sounded like he very much wanted to stay but no talks took place. He also agreed to stay on as manager until a new man was appointed. He consequently managed the club for the first 12 matches in the first division, rather than simply walking away. I wonder where the club would have got to if he had stayed as at that time and in that era, winning the league was open to virtually any club who were managed and well run and wasn’t ring fenced by money in favour of whoever is in the current top six as in the PL today.
I really like MR, liked him first time he was here and was really pleased he came back. I don’t know why but this club and Robins just seem to suit each other. However, for me he has some way to go to compete with someone like JH who transformed everything about Coventry City. In a list of all time managers I would say he was behind Hill, Sillett Milne and Storer, not that I was around during the latter’s time in charge.

Can’t compare JH and MR different times. I will say though as good JH was what he did at the end was almost unforgivable whatever was going on behind the scenes to announce his resignation on the eve of our big kick off at Burnley was crass. I Worked with Ronnie Farmer and Ernie Machin and they both told me they hadn’t the foggiest as to what was happening, imagine that. Also Hill hadn’t strengthened the squad at all in preparation for top level football, that was left to new manager Noel Cantwell three months into the new season and all through the season ultimately left us struggling all season.

 

[Magwitch]

What I will add is imo had stayed and continued his managerial career rather than tv he could have become one of the great football managers he just had that knack of getting the best and a bit more from his players, new a good player too, signed Ernie Machin and John Tudor from non league Dave Clements from Wolves reserves had the guts to pay massive fee for Bill Glazier, just a bloody shame he cleared off I think we would have become an established club in the top flight fairly quickly.

 

[Skyblueol]

I think If he was to get us promoted this season and then sustained us as a championship club. If he then slowly started building for a push out of the championship then into the prem I could see him becoming one of greatest ever managers. It’s more than possible too aside from the ground issues there is a sleeping Giant in Coventry City

 

[mrtrench]

I've been thinking a little about how we would fare in the Championship - if we were promoted*. My perception is that the jump from L1 to Champ is much greater than L2 to L1 and that we would struggle. For sure, we'd change the squad around a bit, but I cannot see how a strategy of small purchases, frees and loans would cut it. And I don't think that we'd 'go for broke'.

I'm not complaining - if we could stay up for one year and build on that I'd see it as a success. However I see a real chance of us tumbling down again immediately - albeit with more money.

* Yes, I know we are only 9 games in and 'let's just focus on this year first' etc. etc. However you don't own conjecture and conversation on this board and I choose to think about it and am interested what others think.

 

[shmmeee]

I've been thinking a little about how we would fare in the Championship - if we were promoted*. My perception is that the jump from L1 to Champ is much greater than L2 to L1 and that we would struggle. For sure, we'd change the squad around a bit, but I cannot see how a strategy of small purchases, frees and loans would cut it. And I don't think that we'd 'go for broke'.

I'm not complaining - if we could stay up for one year and build on that I'd see it as a success. However I see a real chance of us tumbling down again immediately - albeit with more money.

* Yes, I know we are only 9 games in and 'let's just focus on this year first' etc. etc. However you don't own conjecture and conversation on this board and I choose to think about it and am interested what others think.

Would a bit of yo-yoing be the worst thing in the world?

I’d like to think we’d see a decent crowd and could at least compete above the relegation zone. Ultimately getting to the Prem would be a pipe dream unless we had a lucky season or massive investment. I’m OK with that TBH. I’d much rather spend ten years in the Championship than L1/2.

 

[mrtrench]

Would a bit of yo-yoing be the worst thing in the world?

No... if we were shrewd and accumulated from it - improving each iteration until we really could compete there. However, I have to say, I do like to see us win. Would rather win lots of games in L1 than watch us lose every week in a higher division. But that's being selfish - I get the money angle and it being better for the club (so long as we don't spunk it all away on Keith O'Neill et alia).

 

[Johhny Blue]

With the current state of the prem I would rather drop back to league one than go up

 

[Gazolba]

Sillet era was amazing, the finishes in the league and cup runs were just brilliant away days. To me, he is the best ever because of the achievements at the top level.

Hill achieved something for the whole club, not just the team so comparison is not always easy, he avoided taking the challenge of the top division.

Robins is doing something great with the players and wants to play a certain way and not afraid to stick at it with the players and his philosophy.

Others have done well in stints, G is right about Phil Neal but not that was boring at times.

For me:
1. Sillet
2. Hull
Last. Tied between Thorn and Slade

Without Jimmy Hill, there would have been no Sillett and no Curtis and 1987 would never have happened.

 

[Magwitch]

I've been thinking a little about how we would fare in the Championship - if we were promoted*. My perception is that the jump from L1 to Champ is much greater than L2 to L1 and that we would struggle. For sure, we'd change the squad around a bit, but I cannot see how a strategy of small purchases, frees and loans would cut it. And I don't think that we'd 'go for broke'.

I'm not complaining - if we could stay up for one year and build on that I'd see it as a success. However I see a real chance of us tumbling down again immediately - albeit with more money.

* Yes, I know we are only 9 games in and 'let's just focus on this year first' etc. etc. However you don't own conjecture and conversation on this board and I choose to think about it and am interested what others think.

Is the difference from let’s say the middle of the championship and division one that big ? Luton and Charlton haven’t done too bad so far. Robins has certainly upped our quality from last season and has brought in several young ones into our U23 squad. Of course we will need better players and it would be a case of a couple out and their transfer money to bring three or four in but I think we could hold our own in there.

 

[Garryb80]

Is the difference from let’s say the middle of the championship and division one that big ? Luton and Charlton haven’t done too bad so far. Robins has certainly upped our quality from last season and has brought in several young ones into our U23 squad. Of course we will need better players and it would be a case of a couple out and their transfer money to bring three or four in but I think we could hold our own in there.

The gap us huge. Barnsley struggling and they spent a bit. Rotherham always yo yo. Wigan struggling. Take ipswich this year. Clearly a top side here yet were cannon fodder last year

 

[Deleted member 5849]

I'm surprised to see how little regard Sillett gets around these parts from some.

Consistent top 10 finishes, competing in the cups, and one season where we were right up there as title contenders for the first half, and the position of 'only' 7th was probably worse than it should have been, with no motivation of European football once we dropped out of title contention.

We also put a structure andx the idea of succession together. The fact we blew it apart by appointing Butcher over and above all the background work showed just what we had achieved. Sometimes you don't recognise what you've got until it's gone, but it surprises me that with the benefit of hindsight, people wouldn't say the Sillett years were anything but a golden age for the club.

 

[COVKIDSNEVERQUIT]

I'm surprised to see how little regard Sillett gets around these parts from some.

And George Curtis gets even less, I wonder why .

 

[rockdude101]

The gap us huge. Barnsley struggling and they spent a bit. Rotherham always yo yo. Wigan struggling. Take ipswich this year. Clearly a top side here yet were cannon fodder last year

Barnsley have slightly yo-yo'd but have usually been a lower-midfield championship club. Wigan and Ipswich have been steadily declining for a couple of years now.

 

[skysblue]

No! no where near but 2 more promotions would help.

 

[Magwitch]

I read recently talk amongst the championship clubs of pulling away from the EFL, didn’t read the detail but that could move the financial goalposts significantly I reckon. Would that mean a premier two for example ? and could it mean now is the time more than ever to get up there.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Sillett was a one hit wonder. Hill did it in easier times. Robins getting us promoted given the backdrop would be a massive achievement

Sillett oversaw a cup win and a series of very very comfortable seasons in the top flight

 

[Magwitch]

Serious question regarding Sillet as my memory has faded with time ( 30'plus years now) ...........
What do you (or anybody else who would like to comment) think George Curtis contribution was to the success in the mid 80s. I remember they had defined roles and GC was more like a modern day Director of football but we always sang "George and Johns Sky blue army"

Was it JS 80% and GC 20% or 50/50 or ???

George’s contribution at the time was massive far bigger than what’s been told, Sillett was more a coach than manager and Curtis more manager than coach, Sill was more media friendly and George kept out of that spotlight. Big shame he didn’t stay on in his role at the time

 

[Grendel]

George’s contribution at the time was massive far bigger than what’s been told, Sillett was more a coach than manager and Curtis more manager than coach, Sill was more media friendly and George kept out of that spotlight. Big shame he didn’t stay on in his role at the time

Every player at the time disagreed with your assessment - Curtis had a minimal contribution - Sillett selected the team, organised tactics etc

 

[torchomatic]

George’s contribution at the time was massive far bigger than what’s been told, Sillett was more a coach than manager and Curtis more manager than coach, Sill was more media friendly and George kept out of that spotlight. Big shame he didn’t stay on in his role at the time

I don't remember it like that. I seem to remember reading something along the lines of Curtis was just there to help out Sillett rather than being an equal partner or anything.