Would any other football league club...? (1 Viewer)

[Jimmy Hill's Chin]

not remove a manager who has presided over 5 wins in 30 league games, has not won away two thirds of the way into the season, is managing a team 8 points from safety with teams above us with games in hand and has presided over a team who have scored 7 away goals in 15 away matches this season? I think not.

 

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[The soothsayer]

not remove a manager who has presided over 5 wins in 30 league games, has not won away two thirds of the way into the season, is managing a team 8 points from safety with teams above us with games in hand and has presided over a team who have scored 7 away goals in 15 away matches this season? I think not.

We are unique! it makes ya proud.

 

[Otis]

not remove a manager who has presided over 5 wins in 30 league games, has not won away two thirds of the way into the season, is managing a team 8 points from safety with teams above us with games in hand and has presided over a team who have scored 7 away goals in 15 away matches this season? I think not.

Well, the answer is obviously no. Every other club is not Coventry City though.

 

[Ccfc1979]

If there was any bite in the weary, battered down fans something could be mobilised to get rid of both. But the giant is not sleeping, it's comatosed. The fight has gone. 25 years of treading league water has killed off all passion and any appetite for regaining pride has gone.

 

[ohitsaidwalker king power]

Some memories in these links....I think Thorns record is arguably worse than any listed... but those detailed didn't have the SISU factor?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...worst-managerial-reigns-English-football.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/s/sunderland/2839127.stm

 

[Delboycov]

If there was any bite in the weary, battered down fans something could be mobilised to get rid of both. But the giant is not sleeping, it's comatosed. The fight has gone. 25 years of treading league water has killed off all passion and any apipetite for regaining pride has gone.

Totally agree with that...the club is dying on it's arse and it's demise is being greeted with a collective shrug of the shoulders by the majority of fans. I must admit I think my fight has gone too now.....

 

[bamalamafizzfazz]

Maybe the owners want to establish some stability after having so many managers over a ten year period that now they are keeping with the current manager regardless of results, league postion, fan's opinion, media interference, transfer and selection policies :facepalm:

 

[SlowerThanPlatt]

Don't have the cash. Any other club, with ambition, would of sacked their manager by now with that sort of record.

 

[stupot07]

Any other club would have replaced the players it lost in the summer. Sisu don't care about results, they care about balance sheets

 

[SkyBlueScottie]

It seems cruel to kick Thorn while he is no doubt down, and I do actually think had we kept the players we lost during the Winter he probably would have taken us higher up the league than Coleman mnaged.

However we are now at the time (probably past it in all honesty) that something needs to change, there is only so much Thorn or any other manager could do, so perhaps it does need a fresh voice.

However on the other hand we are down, perhaps just perhaps Thorn saw relegation was inevitable (for instance my opinion at the start of the season was that we would go down) nd has been planning for it all this time by blooding the likes of Christie, Bigi and Thomas etc. Although I do think his hand was forced by the fact we had no other bodies to bring in. If thats the case then I can see a big problem looming on the horizon, and thats when Sisu start to flog off such players for 100 k etc when Thorn was expecting to use them for next season.

 

[Glen]

If it cost any more than 1p to sack him he will stay

 

[covcity4life]

not when you have thorn in brigade fans to make it easy for them

 

[CUS Wyken]

Any other club would have replaced the players it lost in the summer. Sisu don't care about results, they care about balance sheets

David Moyes seems to manage???

 

[oldskyblue58]

just to be argumentative ........... having those players didnt seem to have made much difference...... come the end of last season - we were still fighting against relegation, losing millions financially, losing supporters, all strangely familiar this season, last season, the season before etc

we can only assume that they may have got us more points and the situation less dire - but evidence of previous seasons suggests we would still be fighting relegation

 

[stupot07]

David Moyes seems to manage???

Moyes has done a fantastic job, in fact pound for pound if you loom at achievement v budget I would say he is the best manager in England.

The thing is there are only a handful of 'special' managers (inc MON) who can make that difference over a sustained period of time. The rest and the vast majority of managers can't do it. It's no coincidence that Moyes is the third longest serving manager in England ( only fergie and Wenger have been in jobs longer) having been in charge from 1 month short of 10 years, which is phenomenal. To put it perspective a manager in the Championship lasts on average 1.92 years, less than 1/5 of the time Moyes has been in charge.

 

[stupot07]

just to be argumentative ........... having those players didnt seem to have made much difference...... come the end of last season - we were still fighting against relegation, losing millions financially, losing supporters, all strangely familiar this season, last season, the season before etc

we can only assume that they may have got us more points and the situation less dire - but evidence of previous seasons suggests we would still be fighting relegation

Definitely, we've been clinging on for the last few years.

 

[CUS Wyken]

Moyes has done a fantastic job, in fact pound for pound if you loom at achievement v budget I would say he is the best manager in England.

The thing is there are only a handful of 'special' managers (inc MON) who can make that difference over a sustained period of time. The rest and the vast majority of managers can't do it. It's no coincidence that Moyes is the third longest serving manager in England ( only fergie and Wenger have been in jobs longer) having been in charge from 1 month short of 10 years, which is phenomenal. To put it perspective a manager in the Championship lasts on average 1.92 years, less than 1/5 of the time Moyes has been in charge.

Thing is Stu - it can be done with little to no budget. Look at other teams over the years just in our league for example. Grimsby in 2002, Gillingham 2003 Crewe in 2004, Luton 2006, Scunthorpe 2009, Plymouth & Barnsley 2008. That's the point. It’s not mission impossible to stay up but under Thorn were just heading for oblivion.

 

[Astute]

Thing is Stu - it can be done with little to no budget. Look at other teams over the years just in our league for example. Grimsby in 2002, Gillingham 2003 Crewe in 2004, Luton 2006, Sc-unithorpe 2009, Plymouth & Barnsley 2008. That's the point. It’s not mission impossible to stay up but under Thorn were just heading for oblivion.

And where are all these teams now?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Thing is Stu - it can be done with little to no budget. Look at other teams over the years just in our league for example. Grimsby in 2002, Gillingham 2003 Crewe in 2004, Luton 2006, Scunthorpe 2009, Plymouth & Barnsley 2008. That's the point. It’s not mission impossible to stay up but under Thorn were just heading for oblivion.

Grimsby and Luton have plunged into non-league football as a result of punching above their weight and the overspending attached with that. Crewe are lower league football's conveyer belt, and funded themselves through selling their best players for big bucks; and now find themselves in the bottom tier. Plymouth equally overspent big time in this division and are sat at the bottom of the whole league as a result of it-Scunny got by on Gary Hooper's goals and quickly folded after he was sold. Barnsley I'd admit are coping with a small budget, but haven't set the Championship alight either.
The point is-clubs punching above their weight by relying on the Crewe style conveyer belt system or the Plymouth style overspending will all fall flat-either when the talent stops coming through, or the bank catches up with you. When you look at the backroom staff we employ, and the players we currently have on the books (permanently), it's the sort of thing you'd expect at a 4th tier club. Without a change at the top, L1 will be a struggle, and I dread to think what we'd do if we scraped survival in the CCC-why? Because there's nothing but the absolute bare minimum of footballing staff.

 

[SkyBlueScottie]

Thing is Stu - it can be done with little to no budget. Look at other teams over the years just in our league for example. Grimsby in 2002, Gillingham 2003 Crewe in 2004, Luton 2006, Scunthorpe 2009, Plymouth & Barnsley 2008. That's the point. It’s not mission impossible to stay up but under Thorn were just heading for oblivion.

Could you have picked a worse set of clubs?

 

[CUS Wyken]

Are you lot too silly to realise all the above teams had smaller gates and less budgets but survived in those years. It can be done.

 

[coundonskyblue]

Grimsby and Luton have plunged into non-league football as a result of punching above their weight and the overspending attached with that. Crewe are lower league football's conveyer belt, and funded themselves through selling their best players for big bucks; and now find themselves in the bottom tier. Plymouth equally overspent big time in this division and are sat at the bottom of the whole league as a result of it-Scunny got by on Gary Hooper's goals and quickly folded after he was sold. Barnsley I'd admit are coping with a small budget, but haven't set the Championship alight either.
The point is-clubs punching above their weight by relying on the Crewe style conveyer belt system or the Plymouth style overspending will all fall flat-either when the talent stops coming through, or the bank catches up with you. When you look at the backroom staff we employ, and the players we currently have on the books (permanently), it's the sort of thing you'd expect at a 4th tier club. Without a change at the top, L1 will be a struggle, and I dread to think what we'd do if we scraped survival in the CCC-why? Because there's nothing but the absolute bare minimum of footballing staff.

Agree with what you say about clubs over spending or constantly sell their best players, something that we've done for years!

Its true that spending lots of money won't guarantee you a decent league position, however constantly selling your best will guarantee you a lower league position.

 

[Astute]

Are you lot too silly to realise all the above teams had smaller gates and less budgets but survived in those years. It can be done.

Less money than having all your decent players sold and no money reinvested in more players? If any players can score goals then they have to be sold. And we are silly for noticing this? :thinking about:

 

[Astute]

just to be argumentative ........... having those players didnt seem to have made much difference...... come the end of last season - we were still fighting against relegation, losing millions financially, losing supporters, all strangely familiar this season, last season, the season before etc

we can only assume that they may have got us more points and the situation less dire - but evidence of previous seasons suggests we would still be fighting relegation

But how did AT do with the players last season and how is he doing this season after losing nearly every player from the 1st team he finished last season with? All he is missing with the way he has got the remainder playing is goalscorers. But if he did have goalscorers then SISU would sell them :facepalm:

 

[oldskyblue58]

But how did AT do with the players last season and how is he doing this season after losing nearly every player from the 1st team he finished last season with? All he is missing with the way he has got the remainder playing is goalscorers. But if he did have goalscorers then SISU would sell them :facepalm:

Losing players is a fact of life - he knew what he was getting into. I would argue that the 10 games last season also included a big element of new manager syndrome and players playing with freedom as opposed to under AB. In some of those games we could easily have been losing before we scored so he also had an element of luck. Yes we are missing a consistent goal scorer but the same could be said for other teams who are higher up the league. But then again we are missing getting the ball forward effectively quickly and accurately so having a goalscorer available would help but only if we actually play in the other teams half

 

[Astute]

Losing players is a fact of life - he knew what he was getting into.

I am not so sure he knew he would lose nearly the whole of his first team and only replace the GK with two GK's not as good and have a striker untried at this level instead of King and everyone else.

 

[The Reverend Skyblue]

Giving Bell and Baker, arguably our two worst players extended contracts, also including playing people out of position, the tactics, which everyone who goes regularly moan about most, bringing players in on loan then playing them out of position, sticking with players who are out of form,like Murphy Clingan.

Quoting in the media, "i don't know why we are losing every week ", "this team is good enough to be much higher in the table", "the boys gave me everything" which they clearly don't, and sticking with Harrison who has been here far too long and brings nothing to the table.
Apart from all the above and the tactics, the team are'nt fit, some players should have been sold to free up money,e.g Bell Baker Clingan , I think Thorns doing a fine job.

The Rev

 

[Macca]

How ironic if we stayed up because sisu had been tight with money

 

[ICHAN]

Thing is people have a go about not having players/bought players, and as a few have said AT says the squad is good enough to be out of the relegation shit we are in.

But lets look at what over-spending is doing to 2 clubs (admin).
We all want better players and more players than what we have but maybe if SISU had spent millions we could now be looking at admin ourselves and in a worse state than what we are.
At least we have a football team to support even if as it looks likely in a lower league, not ideal I know but unfortunatly we can not have everything.
As for AT he should have gone month's ago, as it just is not working for him, the losing mentality is rotton all the way through the club now, and I feel the fans have also got to that stage as well.
Myself I can not be arsed anymore for the first time ever in over 40 years, to even listen to the game on iplayer as there is just no excitment or hope that we may even win a game, even when on the odd occasion we are winning, as I just know we will lose.
The passion is not there on the pitch anymore from the players to fight for survival.

 

[@richh87]

David Moyes seems to manage???

IF Everton sold Rodwell, Howard, Jageilka (can't spell that),
Cahill, Neville, Fellani, Baines, etc etc etc and replaced them with academy players then maybe you'd have a sensible point.

But they didn't, so you don't.

 

[Astute]

Giving Bell and Baker, arguably our two worst players extended contracts, also including playing people out of position, the tactics, which everyone who goes regularly moan about most, bringing players in on loan then playing them out of position, sticking with players who are out of form,like Murphy Clingan.

Quoting in the media, "i don't know why we are losing every week ", "this team is good enough to be much higher in the table", "the boys gave me everything" which they clearly don't, and sticking with Harrison who has been here far too long and brings nothing to the table.
Apart from all the above and the tactics, the team are'nt fit, some players should have been sold to free up money,e.g Bell Baker Clingan , I think Thorns doing a fine job.

The Rev

So you are now saying AT says who is sold and who to bring in? Def no choice on who gets sold. So he wanted Juke to be sold without a replacement? Then he can choose who to bring in if they are free or cheaper. Still all his fault I suppose?

 

[Astute]

Thing is people have a go about not having players/bought players, and as a few have said AT says the squad is good enough to be out of the relegation shit we are in.

So do you say he should let the players know he thinks they are not good enough and shoot the little bit of confidence they have left to bits?

 

[oldskyblue58]

ever consider he wholeheartedly believes that they are good enough and that he just hasnt been able to find the winning formula. He could actually mean what he says and not be saying one thing but meaning another as some seem to assume.

 

[stupot07]

ever consider he wholeheartedly believes that they are good enough and that he just hasnt been able to find the winning formula. He could actually mean what he says and not be saying one thing but meaning another as some seem to assume.

However he has also stated the need to get more bodies in, and in particular strikers, which would indicate that we're not good enough in that department, which Incidentally is what he says when were good in all the stats with the exception of goals.

 

[Astute]

However he has also stated the need to get more bodies in, and in particular strikers, which would indicate that we're not good enough in that department, which Incidentally is what he says when were good in all the stats with the exception of goals.

Most of us know about the stats, but some of us choose not to take all of the stats in and some of us do not listen fully to what AT says.

To me AT has done well to keep us playing as well as he has with the constraints he has been put under. We watch players coming off the bench for our opponents that would be in out team at all times, but then have fans wondering why he can't change things like our opponents. Poor AT. Heads they win, tails he loses.