Your beloved SISU: Why? (1 Viewer)

SkyblueBazza said:

So the local authority came to the rescue otherwise we would not have a stadium...that could be true. That makes them the good guys in all of this???
SISU came in to buy the club at the death...otherwise there would be no club...I think that is at least as true. BUT so many portray them as the bad guys - mostly it seems through tactics employed to get the stadium so they can increase revenue so they can invest more on the pitch (I admit that is my assumption) & stick to the FFP rules coming in.
There are no good guys other than the supporters - they are the only ones who do or say anything for the love of the club. All other interested parties do it for financial gain or to massage their massive ego.
I guess that a great many will now accuse me of being a "SISU-lover" but I really am beyond caring about that childish nonsense...so if anyone is tempted to...it's pointless bothering.

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What I'm about to say is not a personal attack on you, but one on SISU..
SISU blackmailed shareholders into giving up their shares free gratis
As for increase revenue so they can invest more on the pitch ....what a load of bollox!....Crowds at time of takeover were well above 20k...Increase revenue!!! Buy Dann and Fox, then sell within 12 months? Then as every man and his dog knows...5 years of none or very little investment in playing staff.
Now what would you rather have, a fresh start without these leeches, or another five years(Doesn't bare thinking about) of descending leagues and without any doubt whatsoever(In my eyes) eventually going out of business. The choice is yours!

rupert_bear said:

What difference does that make ? There are long time posters on here from America, Oz, Spain etc, does their not going to matches limit their right to opinion ? I know a regular poster on here unable to attend matches through illness. How do we know you go ?

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It makes a difference in attitude. He doesn't care what league the club is in as he does not attend. It makes motivations different and the vast majority of fans who attend are not anti sisu or pro afl they just want a game on Saturday.

I posted yesterday giving an opinion about why SISU would, by acting in their own interests, be acting in the interests of the club. I stick by this. I don't trust SISU or ACL as SISU have in the past put forward workable solutions ( based on the Doncaster model for example) and ACL have held out. SISU obviously want to own the ground, the stupidest thing that Cov have ever done is sell the ground (that's Cov collectively in all forms). To move forward CCFC must own their own ground OR agree a deal that allows them to make more from their games there (including deductions for rent). This also suits SISU. We as fans want Cov to do well, want it to be financially successful as we know that this increases the opportunity for success on the pitch. We're all realists that understand that SISU, or whoever owns a football club either a) has far more money than sense and can afford to lose a few quid on it or b) want to turn a profit, and in this case its b! So SISU need the club to be successful, need the situation regarding the ground to be not only viable but also profitable, and that's going to be the case for whoever owns CCFC. So whilst I agree with those who don't trust what comes out of SISU, its in their own interests for the club to do well.

The worry, is that they cut their losses and run. Many of you seem to think this would be a good thing, get rid of SISU and all will be ok? That scares me more than SISU staying around!

Sky Blue Kid said:

SISU blackmailed shareholders into giving up their shares free gratis

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Now to be fair, I don't remember being blackmailed to give up my share.

I remember having no bloody choice in the matter

All sides in this are only in it for themselves. SISU wanted to make a fast buck but didnt understand the amount the would have to invest to actually get to the Premier League. The council got involved because they saw an opportunity to make long term money. Within a couple of weeks of SISU taking over the council were in the CET stating the Higgs Charity share would cost £10m when it was sold for much less and the councils would be at least £40m when the mortgage was only £21m. These are not the comments of council helping out but the stance of a group of greedy bastards trying to make the same fast buck as SISU were. They also made it clear the council share would only be made available with the development of the area. So in effect doing the councils job for them. They are all as bad as each other.

rob9872 said:

Yes we would have a stadium-highfield road! We would have entered admin then but the council bought the ground and have been paid more in rent since than any outlay. They wanted that part of the city regenerated regardless and were inky too happy to get involved in rescuing the arena project.

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Wrong, the Club sold Highfield Road to a developer & was being rented back at ~900K pa.

Then the club announced it did not have the money to complete the Ricoh project (which at the time hadn't even got to the stage of laying the foundations and was years behind schedule) and went to the Council for funds to complete it. Eventually the council voted to supply the money, but not without overcoming considerable political resistance.

The ACL structure was established with the Higgs Charity paying £6.5M for the clubs 1/2 share and a £21M loan was taken out with the Yorkshire Bank, ultimately guaranteed by the Council & the Higgs Charity. At this point the club had 10 years to buy back 1/2 the stadium at price determined by an agreed formula.

Essentially isn't that the woeful story up until the time SISU came in & essentially did little better over the last 6 years.

@ leicesterskyblue....

I want CCFC to do well, get back to the Premiership, have good crowds again, but not under the ownership of SISU.
It doesn't need Einstein to see that SISU only want the Ricoh, and all the "Trimmings" that go with it. CCC can see it, and therefore won't sell to SISU as long as they've got a "Hole in their arse"....For the long term good of CCFC. we need to take the "Hit" of Administration, and start again.

The council have so many rim lickers im in shock! Between them and ACL, which i argue are the same thing, they have overcharged rent for years. They have come out and offered £400k a year...well thats good of them. Why didnt they apply this rate from the start?? This proves they are admitting they have been charging 3 times the value of the stadium to the club for years. When do the football club apply for their refund? Anybody who beleives the council care about the club are deluded. Im far from being pro-SISU but to suggest its all one sided is frankly ridiculous.

Black6Osprey said:

All sides in this are only in it for themselves. SISU wanted to make a fast buck but didnt understand the amount the would have to invest to actually get to the Premier League. The council got involved because they saw an opportunity to make long term money. Within a couple of weeks of SISU taking over the council were in the CET stating the Higgs Charity share would cost £10m when it was sold for much less and the councils would be at least £40m when the mortgage was only £21m. These are not the comments of council helping out but the stance of a group of greedy bastards trying to make the same fast buck as SISU were. They also made it clear the council share would only be made available with the development of the area. So in effect doing the councils job for them. They are all as bad as each other.

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Be careful what you say mate.......I was attacked by Torchomatic,Grenduffy, Summerisle for saying that the ACL share was worth £10m.:claping hands::claping hands::claping hands:

Grendel said:

It makes a difference in attitude. He doesn't care what league the club is in as he does not attend. It makes motivations different and the vast majority of fans who attend are not anti sisu or pro afl they just want a game on Saturday.

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Do you not think the position the club is in contributes to the pathetic gates we now get and who is responsble for that council ? ACL ? or our owners ?. We are where we are due to club policy, no other reason and that affects attendances nothing else. No such things as plastic fans but there are plenty of pissed off ones.

thechase said:

The council have so many rim lickers im in shock! Between them and ACL, which i argue are the same thing, they have overcharged rent for years. They have come out and offered £400k a year...well thats good of them. Why didnt they apply this rate from the start?? This proves they are admitting they have been charging 3 times the value of the stadium to the club for years. When do the football club apply for their refund? Anybody who beleives the council care about the club are deluded. Im far from being pro-SISU but to suggest its all one sided is frankly ridiculous.

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I am assuming that this is a wind up or a poor attempt at thought-provoking humour?
If not, then your lack of knowledge at what led to the ACL offer is indeed shocking.
So you are unaware of the fact that it was only because of the CCC refinancing the ACL mortgage that ACL were in a position to offer the reduced rent? Before that, ACL were paying much higher interest rates to the Yorkshire bank (for a mortgage that was taken out to finance the building of the stadium, which the club was unable to do as they were broke and the CCC had to step in and save the club).
I would not consider people that are aware of and understand the real facts of the case as "rim lickers", but as sensible fans that aren't blinded by the sky blue spectacles that some apparantly are unable to take off.

Was £900k a 'fair rent' for Highfield Road?

Black6Osprey said:

All sides in this are only in it for themselves. SISU wanted to make a fast buck but didnt understand the amount the would have to invest to actually get to the Premier League. The council got involved because they saw an opportunity to make long term money. Within a couple of weeks of SISU taking over the council were in the CET stating the Higgs Charity share would cost £10m when it was sold for much less and the councils would be at least £40m when the mortgage was only £21m. These are not the comments of council helping out but the stance of a group of greedy bastards trying to make the same fast buck as SISU were. They also made it clear the council share would only be made available with the development of the area. So in effect doing the councils job for them. They are all as bad as each other.

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The cost of the Higgs share is based on a calculation of property prices. Sisu would have known this when buying the club.

coundonskyblue said:

Was £900k a 'fair rent' for Highfield Road?

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It was for the family member who received it

Sky Blue Kid said:

What I'm about to say is not a personal attack on you, but one on SISU..
SISU blackmailed shareholders into giving up their shares free gratis
As for increase revenue so they can invest more on the pitch ....what a load of bollox!....Crowds at time of takeover were well above 20k...Increase revenue!!! Buy Dann and Fox, then sell within 12 months? Then as every man and his dog knows...5 years of none or very little investment in playing staff.
Now what would you rather have, a fresh start without these leeches, or another five years(Doesn't bare thinking about) of descending leagues and without any doubt whatsoever(In my eyes) eventually going out of business. The choice is yours!

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I disagree about the "blackmailed" bit - shares were simply rendered worthless weren't they?
On the investment front the quick-buck approach initially worked with, as you say, Dann & Fox - but they must surely have learned over the last 5yrs that quick/lots of player/manager turnover disrupts things on the pitch. If you aren't doing it on the pitch you lose money. So the next 5yrs might be different with them...maybe we will find out - maybe we won't.
I do think there is little to attract an alternative buyer with the current stadium set-up, so no SISU - where do we go???

Sky Blue Kid said:

@ leicesterskyblue....

I want CCFC to do well, get back to the Premiership, have good crowds again, but not under the ownership of SISU.
It doesn't need Einstein to see that SISU only want the Ricoh, and all the "Trimmings" that go with it. CCC can see it, and therefore won't sell to SISU as long as they've got a "Hole in their arse"....For the long term good of CCFC. we need to take the "Hit" of Administration, and start again.

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Correct. And we need to take that hit in the hope that it makes us more attractive to someone who can bang a few heads together and sort the club out.

Jack Griffin said:

Wrong, the Club sold Highfield Road to a developer & was being rented back at ~900K pa.

Then the club announced it did not have the money to complete the Ricoh project (which at the time hadn't even got to the stage of laying the foundations and was years behind schedule) and went to the Council for funds to complete it. Eventually the council voted to supply the money, but not without overcoming considerable political resistance.

The ACL structure was established with the Higgs Charity paying £6.5M for the clubs 1/2 share and a £21M loan was taken out with the Yorkshire Bank, ultimately guaranteed by the Council & the Higgs Charity. At this point the club had 10 years to buy back 1/2 the stadium at price determined by an agreed formula.


Essentially isn't that the woeful story up until the time SISU came in & essentially did little better over the last 6 years.

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Correct. People who berate the CCC should remember the history behind the sale of HR and the building and move to the Ricoh. Blaming them is absurd.

dadgad said:

Correct. People who berate the CCC should remember the history behind the sale of HR and the building and move to the Ricoh. Blaming them is absurd.

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If it was any other business people would be saying the council has bent over backwards to help them.

Peugeot
Jaguar
Massy Ferguson
GEC
Triumph
Alfred Herberts
Alvis

All those companys brought more to the local economy than CCFC ever will. Should the Council have given them a load of money as well?

Sky Blue Kid said:

@ leicesterskyblue....

I want CCFC to do well, get back to the Premiership, have good crowds again, but not under the ownership of SISU.
.

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So what you are saying is you would rather fail without SISU than success with them?

We are unlikely to ever be successful with them but what you are saying if we were to be you would rather not be successful and not have SISU

Are you really prepared to wait another 5 years and take that chance that we're not playing 5 leagues lower than we are now!....then get liquidated by them and drop down to(Perhaps)Coventry and District Sunday Premier league?...Been there, done that, had the "Tshirt", and seen the video!

CCFC said:

So what you are saying is you would rather fail without SISU than success with them?

We are unlikely to ever be successful with them but what you are saying if we were to be you would rather not be successful and not have SISU

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You already answered your own question mate So why take the chance!

True, Richardson stupidly sold HR and then had to rent it back. True, we didn't have the money to complete the project and CCC said they would finish the development.

However, I notice you fail to mention the £20M that the club had already spent on redeveloping and decontaminating the area making it ready for the stadium project. £20M the CCC didn't have to spend.

Jack Griffin said:

Wrong, the Club sold Highfield Road to a developer & was being rented back at ~900K pa.

Then the club announced it did not have the money to complete the Ricoh project (which at the time hadn't even got to the stage of laying the foundations and was years behind schedule) and went to the Council for funds to complete it. Eventually the council voted to supply the money, but not without overcoming considerable political resistance.

The ACL structure was established with the Higgs Charity paying £6.5M for the clubs 1/2 share and a £21M loan was taken out with the Yorkshire Bank, ultimately guaranteed by the Council & the Higgs Charity. At this point the club had 10 years to buy back 1/2 the stadium at price determined by an agreed formula.

Essentially isn't that the woeful story up until the time SISU came in & essentially did little better over the last 6 years.

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@CCFC.....


6 years of SISU control, saw us slip from a comfortable mid table Championship team, to "Get out of jail"(Remember Stoke v Leicester thickness of the post"
To finally the "Dizzy Heights" of 3rd division football(After nearly 50 years out of it)...Don't "Pretty it up" by saying L1 ffs!!!
Who do we have to blame for all this shit???....SHITSU!!! :facepalm:

CCFC said:

So what you are saying is you would rather fail without SISU than success with them?

We are unlikely to ever be successful with them but what you are saying if we were to be you would rather not be successful and not have SISU

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Sorry, but this doesn't do it.
How can a club, any club, be successful when those calling the shots are so demonstrably inept?
The past five years are the best predictor of the next five.
This applies to people and business.
Until we get someone different who understands the essential skills required to run a football club we will continue to fail.
Imagine, if you can, you were a potential investor in Ccfc.
would you?
If the answer to that is "no" then ask yourself "why?"
Soon you'll be inside the head of a CCC councillor who is wondering whether it makes sense to let Sisu get control of
Coventry real estate. You'll be thinking, this doesn't make sense. I'd rather get someone in who I can trust.

torchomatic said:

True, Richardson stupidly sold HR and then had to rent it back. True, we didn't have the money to complete the project and CCC said they would finish the development.

However, I notice you fail to mention the £20M that the club had already spent on redeveloping and decontaminating the area making it ready for the stadium project. £20M the CCC didn't have to spend.

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Tesco also spent a large amount developing that site. Presumably they should get some share of the income streams?

What has happened has happened, CCFC need to accept it is responsible for selling off all its assets, and act with a bit of humility and then we might get somewhere.

Agree. I am just trying to counter the fallacy that the Club never put anything into the project. They did.

As for Tesco, they gave a large amount to Bryan Ricahrdson.

coundonskyblue said:

Tesco also spent a large amount developing that site. Presumably they should get some share of the income streams?

What has happened has happened, CCFC need to accept it is responsible for selling off all its assets, and act with a bit of humility and then we might get somewhere.

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The Council didn't sell off HR.
The Council didn't force CCFC to sell off their share of the Arena
The Council didn't force CCFC to the current rent agreement (what, no rent reduction clause in case of relegation? Whose fault it that then?)
The Council didn't get us relegated to the Championship
The Council didn't pick sub-par managers who purchased sub-par players, resulting in only 1 top half finish in over a decade and gates going from 23,000 to around 15,000
The Council didn't get us relegated to League 1

I amazed the Council hasn't been blamed for Macca's poor performances.

It is lingering at the back of their minds.

The CableGuy said:

The Council didn't sell off HR.
The Council didn't force CCFC to sell off their share of the Arena
The Council didn't force CCFC to the current rent agreement (what, no rent reduction clause in case of relegation? Whose fault it that then?)
The Council didn't get us relegated to the Championship
The Council didn't pick sub-par managers who purchased sub-par players, resulting in only 1 top half finish in over a decade and gates going from 23,000 to around 15,000
The Council didn't get us relegated to League 1

I amazed the Council hasn't been blamed for Macca's poor performances.

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Not one post has blamed them for any of that so we agree. Doesn't make their current position and charges right either.

torchomatic said:

Agree. I am just trying to counter the fallacy that the Club never put anything into the project. They did.

As for Tesco, they gave a large amount to Bryan Ricahrdson.

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I agree with a lot of what Torch is saying about past owners.
If memory serves, we were financially relatively stable and just about holding our own as a premier club before Richardson started getting his grand ideas and spending money we did not have. It seems certain that our current troubles started with Richardson and crew, and we have gone dramatically downhill since then.
Above all, Richardson's selling of HR had to have been the worst decision in the club's history - and I still do not understand where the money for the sale of HR went (just as I don't understand where the huge sums we received over the years for sales of players went. Not saying there was criminal activity - just saying I couldn't make the numbers add up back then, and I can't make them add up now, which is I guess why those infamous confidentiality agreements were put in place - wouldn't do to have the truth known!).

SISU have merely continued the downward trend with a lot of very stupid decisions (which to be fair they did in fact own up to!), and a very nasty way of trying to do business that has upset most people and has totally alienated ACL and CCC to the extent that there is no way back for them now.

I think it is fair to say that both Fisher and Labovic (spelling?), as directors of our club appointed by SISU, made very public statements stating in definite and certain terms that the club was insolvent and must now file for liquidation. As the largest debtor to ACL, this forced ACL to take action, and indeed the directors of ACL would have been culpable before the law for not taking action once they became aware of the insolvent status of their biggest debtor as publically declared by both of their biggest debtors directors.

There can be no quibbling about the "timing" of ACL's actions being to our detriment. They had no choice but to react once the CCFC directors went public with their insolvency statements.

So I agree with Torch that Richardson and subsequent regimes carry a large part of the blame for where we find ourselves now, but SISU had been appalingly bad owners and have made terrible footballing and business decisions that have exacerbated the situation until we are now in the position that on Friday our fate may well be decided by the courts and a bunch of lawyers who's fees will only serve to worsen our financial position.

rob9872 said:

Not one post has blamed them for any of that

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You sure? So why are the Council perceived by so many fans as the main bad-guys in this sorry mess?

CCFC is and has suffered from years of crap management off and at many times, on the pitch. Were in a much worse state now before SISU took over the running of the club.

SISU didn't sell off HR
SSU didn't force CCFC to sell their share of the Arena
SISU didn't force the Council to charge £1.2M a season
SISU weren't here when the previous board tried to get the rent negotiated
SISU didn't get us relegated to the Championship
SISU didn't pick Sub-par managers, though Coleman was rubbish. Fans wanted Thorn, Fans were pleased with Robins, too early to judge Pressley, but unbeaten so far. SISU haven't been here for a decade, so how can they be blamed for mistakes before their tenure began?
SISU did get us relegated to League One
SISU have bought 20 players this season to try and get back up. We got to the area final of the JPT, had a record home attendance, had the two top scorers in the division and the first midfielder to get to 14 goals for God knows how long. We are three points off the play-offs.

I know I get a slating over my support for SISU - because basically I support the Club and not ACLs stance against the club - but at least I can see and acknowledge the mistakes made by SISU. Those on the other "side" do not and cannot.

The CableGuy said:

The Council didn't sell off HR.
The Council didn't force CCFC to sell off their share of the Arena
The Council didn't force CCFC to the current rent agreement (what, no rent reduction clause in case of relegation? Whose fault it that then?)
The Council didn't get us relegated to the Championship
The Council didn't pick sub-par managers who purchased sub-par players, resulting in only 1 top half finish in over a decade and gates going from 23,000 to around 15,000
The Council didn't get us relegated to League 1

I amazed the Council hasn't been blamed for Macca's poor performances.

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torchomatic said:

SISU didn't sell off HR
SSU didn't force CCFC to sell their share of the Arena
SISU didn't force the Council to charge £1.2M a season
SISU weren't here when the previous board tried to get the rent negotiated
SISU didn't get us relegated to the Championship
SISU didn't pick Sub-par managers, though Coleman was rubbish. Fans wanted Thorn, Fans were pleased with Robins, too early to judge Pressley, but unbeaten so far. SISU haven't been here for a decade, so how can they be blamed for mistakes before their tenure began?
SISU did get us relegated to League One
SISU have bought 20 players this season to try and get back up. We got to the area final of the JPT, had a record home attendance, had the two top scorers in the division and the first midfielder to get to 14 goals for God knows how long. We are three points off the play-offs.

I know I get a slating over my support for SISU - because basically I support the Club and not ACLs stance against the club - but at least I can see and acknowledge the mistakes made by SISU. Those on the other "side" do not and cannot.

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Which is why I said that CCFC has suffered from years of mis-management (not just the SISU era, sorry if that wasn't clear in my previous posts). But SISU have made things worse, and they knew what they were getting into, and the issues regarding the rent.

Still doesn't explain why the Council are the bad-guys.

Flying Fokker said:

It is lingering at the back of their minds.

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Haha!
That's good! But, when you haven't a leg to stand on you'll think of anything.

SISU certainly haven't made things better. But worse? Worse than being a top flight solvent team who owned their own ground? That wasn't SISUs doing, no matter how much you try and deny it. Just the solvency issue along certainly doesn't make it worse in my eyes.

The CableGuy said:

Which is why I said that CCFC has suffered from years of mis-management (not just the SISU era, sorry if that wasn't clear in my previous posts). But SISU have made things worse, and they knew what they were getting into, and the issues regarding the rent.

Still doesn't explain why the Council are the bad-guys.

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