Your beloved SISU: Why? (3 Viewers)

[torchomatic]

SISU certainly haven't made things better. But worse? Worse than being a top flight solvent team who owned their own ground? That wasn't SISUs doing, no matter how much you try and deny it. Just the solvency issue alone certainly doesn't make it worse in my eyes.

Which is why I said that CCFC has suffered from years of mis-management (not just the SISU era, sorry if that wasn't clear in my previous posts). But SISU have made things worse, and they knew what they were getting into, and the issues regarding the rent.

Still doesn't explain why the Council are the bad-guys.

 

---

[dadgad]

I agree with a lot of what Torch is saying about past owners.
If memory serves, we were financially relatively stable and just about holding our own as a premier club before Richardson started getting his grand ideas and spending money we did not have. It seems certain that our current troubles started with Richardson and crew, and we have gone dramatically downhill since then.
Above all, Richardson's selling of HR had to have been the worst decision in the club's history - and I still do not understand where the money for the sale of HR went (just as I don't understand where the huge sums we received over the years for sales of players went. Not saying there was criminal activity - just saying I couldn't make the numbers add up back then, and I can't make them add up now, which is I guess why those infamous confidentiality agreements were put in place - wouldn't do to have the truth known!).

SISU have merely continued the downward trend with a lot of very stupid decisions (which to be fair they did in fact own up to!), and a very nasty way of trying to do business that has upset most people and has totally alienated ACL and CCC to the extent that there is no way back for them now.

I think it is fair to say that both Fisher and Labovic (spelling?), as directors of our club appointed by SISU, made very public statements stating in definite and certain terms that the club was insolvent and must now file for liquidation. As the largest debtor to ACL, this forced ACL to take action, and indeed the directors of ACL would have been culpable before the law for not taking action once they became aware of the insolvent status of their biggest debtor as publically declared by both of their biggest debtors directors.

There can be no quibbling about the "timing" of ACL's actions being to our detriment. They had no choice but to react once the CCFC directors went public with their insolvency statements.

So I agree with Torch that Richardson and subsequent regimes carry a large part of the blame for where we find ourselves now, but SISU had been appalingly bad owners and have made terrible footballing and business decisions that have exacerbated the situation until we are now in the position that on Friday our fate may well be decided by the courts and a bunch of lawyers who's fees will only serve to worsen our financial position.

This is pretty much my position too so I am certainly not laying all the blame at Sisu's door. However, we are where we are. If my son gets arrested for GBH I would accept that I have a responsibility but that would not extend to my doing time for his crime.
Sisu are culpable and they have to take the rap for their clear failings. To stick up for them shows poor judgement.
But, worse, far worse it demonstrates a lack of moral courage. Coventry City has to bite the bullet to get back its spirit and pride. Anything short and we're still bankrupt - morally and financially.....the two go hand in hand.
People like "Torchomatic" like to think that people like me are inconsistent in my assessment if the club's history.
Nothing could be further from the truth.

 

[Grendel]

This is pretty much my position too so I am certainly not laying all the blame at Sisu's door. However, we are where we are. If my son gets arrested for GBH I would accept that I have a responsibility but that would not extend to my doing time for his crime.
Sisu are culpable and they have to take the rap for there clear failings. To stick up for them shows poor judgement.
But, worse, far worse it demonstrates a lack of moral courage. Coventry City has to bite the bullet to get back its spirit and pride. Anything short and we're still bankrupt - morally and financially.....the two go hand in hand.
People like "Torchomatic" like to think that people like me are inconsistent in my assessment if the club's history.
Nothing could be further from the truth.

Ah the good old moral argument.

I'm sure the same applied last time we told creditors "we are not paying"

 

[sky blue john]

Was £900k a 'fair rent' for Highfield Road?

Maybe Torch and Grendel can explain how outraged they were at the time of this and protested to the full ?
Maybe the council thought the Ricoh was worth 300k a year more?

 

[coundonskyblue]

Ah the good old moral argument.

I'm sure the same applied last time we told creditors "we are not paying"

Can't ever remember a time when the club said they wern't going to pay because they didn't want to.

I only remember the club being unable to pay, which morally, is completely different.

 

[Grendel]

Can't ever remember a time when the club said they wern't going to pay because they didn't want to.

I only remember the club being unable to pay, which morally, is completely different.

Why couldn't they pay? Why couldn't they have out every player up for transfer? Why did they continue signing players up to the embargo?

 

[torchomatic]

Actually, yes I did. I was part of the RR campaign that tried to force them out. I handed out flyers outside HR as people went into the ground and got sworn at by a lot of fans for doing so.

There you go, SBJ. There you go.

To save embarrassment you can PM the apology.

Maybe Torch and Grendel can explain how outraged they were at the time of this and protested to the full ?
Maybe the council thought the Ricoh was worth 300k a year more?

 

[RoboCCFC90]

I love the fact that the posters on this forum who are sticking up for the club (SISU) are posting questions and facts regarding what SISU have done are not getting straight answers from the posters who are happy too see the back of SISU, but without giving a reasonable response to the argument, Brilliant!!!

 

[coundonskyblue]

Why couldn't they pay? Why couldn't they have out every player up for transfer? Why did they continue signing players up to the embargo?

Because they didn't have any money

 

[dadgad]

I love the fact that the posters on this forum who are sticking up for the club (SISU) are posting questions and facts regarding what SISU have done are not getting straight answers from the posters who are happy too see the back of SISU, but without giving a reasonable response to the argument, Brilliant!!!

You're new to this?

If you go back five years and examine the "facts" you refer to then you'll find your answers.
If afterwards you're still unclear I am sure you'll find someone to lift you out of the fog.

 

[RoboCCFC90]

Because they didn't have any money

So yet we can sign x amount of players this season and look too invest £30,000,000 into a stadium that would be our own, yet we aren't able to pay £1,200,000 to ACL because there overcharged rent agreement. Coundon are owners are not skint but they spend too there means there is a difference..

 

[RoboCCFC90]

You're new to this?

If you go back five years and examine the "facts" you refer to then you'll find your answers.
If afterwards you're still unclear I am sure you'll find someone to lift you out of the fog.

Not really dadgad but I would be happy for you too post answers on other threads that the likes of myself and Grendel have posted without a response?

 

[kg82]

Congrats on distancing yourself from the melodrama.

 

[RoboCCFC90]

You're new to this?

If you go back five years and examine the "facts" you refer to then you'll find your answers.
If afterwards you're still unclear I am sure you'll find someone to lift you out of the fog.

Start with these if you like?

"And who says that are next owners will be better or possibly worse? Who says that ACL/CCC will deem the next owners responsible with the Arena? What's says that opinions like your is based on hate and is clouded by such? What happens if CCFC's new owners are priced out the Arena? What if the court rules against ACL?"

 

[RoboCCFC90]

Congrats on distancing yourself from the melodrama.

I would hate to think was aimed at me?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

To be honest, the thing I'm most tired of and has been a constant throughout their time in charge, especially over the last 2 years, has been their polarisation of the support. Our crowds at the moment don't really entitle us to keep up this in-fighting, be it Thorn in/out or ACL vs SISU, fans have become disillusioned under them and the ones left argue amongst themselves. It all stems from the shoddy way SISU have run the club.

 

[RoboCCFC90]

To be honest, the thing I'm most tired of and has been a constant throughout their time in charge, especially over the last 2 years, has been their polarisation of the support. Our crowds at the moment don't really entitle us to keep up this in-fighting, be it Thorn in/out or ACL vs SISU, fans have become disillusioned under them and the ones left argue amongst themselves. It all stems from the shoddy way SISU have run the club.

This is because have a difference in opinion and in history, some blame and victimise SISU and there entitled to it yet I don't see SISU as the sole reason the club is in the state it is in and merely look for people to debate against that. I don't think you can blame SISU for the reason why fans are sit in two, would you blame Marmite for the reasons to love or hate it? (Not quite the same as CCFC granted)

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

Any investor that comes in not only saying but doing the right things will get my vote. SISU have zero credibility, especially with ACL/CCC.
In answer to.....RoboCCFC90..And who says that are next owners will be better or possibly worse?.....Unlike SISU,(Whom it took 6 years to realise their tenure has been a total disaster) ACL/CCC will learn by SISU's mistakes, and "Vet" the next owner with a "Fine tooth comb"

 

[dadgad]

Start with these if you like?

"And who says that are next owners will be better or possibly worse? Who says that ACL/CCC will deem the next owners responsible with the Arena? What's says that opinions like your is based on hate and is clouded by such? What happens if CCFC's new owners are priced out the Arena? What if the court rules against ACL?"

1) Those who actually have a public and recognisable face (the Council) have a duty to safeguard the interests of the City ratepayers.
As such they will try and get the best deal for them.....some of whom are actually supporters of the club too.
If new owners come in the Council may offer - with ACL - an inducement to develop the ground around the Arena.
They have already looked into the whites of Sisu's eyes and have been able to trust what they see.
Given that they have nothing to gain (personally) from such an agreement I prefer to trust their judgement.
This is about judgement, an evaluation based on past behaviours, "hate" doesn't come into it.
I hope this addresses your concerns....or some of them.

"if any new owner is priced out of Arena?"
Then market forces prevail....and the new club has to renegotiate.
This is something that should have been addressed a long time ago. Sisu said (then) that it was not on the agenda.
This was a mistake. Their mistake.


Your last point:
It is difficult to see how on earth any court will find against ACL. The court has already ruled in their favour.
It is Sisu who have breached an agreement, not ACL!?!

 

[SkyBlueSwiss]

This is because have a difference in opinion and in history, some blame and victimise SISU and there entitled to it yet I don't see SISU as the sole reason the club is in the state it is in and merely look for people to debate against that. I don't think you can blame SISU for the reason why fans are sit in two, would you blame Marmite for the reasons to love or hate it? (Not quite the same as CCFC granted)

So true, so TRUE!
Nothing polarises opinion like Marmite. Seems you either love it or hate it, together with OXO cubes and Bovril.

 

[RoboCCFC90]

Any investor that comes in not only saying but doing the right things will get my vote. SISU have zero credibility, especially with ACL/CCC.
In answer to.....RoboCCFC90..And who says that are next owners will be better or possibly worse?.....Unlike SISU,(Whom it took 6 years to realise their tenure has been a total disaster) ACL/CCC will learn by SISU's mistakes, and "Vet" the next owner with a "Fine tooth comb"

Might be for ACL/CCC too learn who means that the next owner will be Fit or Proper? The reason the next owners will be better in your opinion is because they are not SISU, not because you believe they may do better for us.

 

[dadgad]

To be honest, the thing I'm most tired of and has been a constant throughout their time in charge, especially over the last 2 years, has been their polarisation of the support. Our crowds at the moment don't really entitle us to keep up this in-fighting, be it Thorn in/out or ACL vs SISU, fans have become disillusioned under them and the ones left argue amongst themselves. It all stems from the shoddy way SISU have run the club.

Couldn't agree more.
I've grown tired of saying it.
We, the fans, are the main stakeholders.
From a PR point of view Sisu have fucked it up big time.
But then, can you really be surprised.? THey are so remote from the world and skills required to run a football club.
This was always going to happen. You might as well ask a fox to look after the chickens.:facepalm::facepalm:

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

This is because have a difference in opinion and in history, some blame and victimise SISU and there entitled to it yet I don't see SISU as the sole reason the club is in the state it is in and merely look for people to debate against that. I don't think you can blame SISU for the reason why fans are sit in two, would you blame Marmite for the reasons to love or hate it? (Not quite the same as CCFC granted)

Who initiated the boycott which has landed us with our accounts frozen and a court hearing? Who appointed an orange as chairman? Last season the radio was full of hardcore supporters calling in saying they just didn't want to go up anymore. That is the legacy they will leave.

 

[AFCCOVENTRY]

Posters are going up around town for next Friday's showdown...

Jacky v Joy

v

Justice is coming...

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Couldn't agree more.
I've grown tired of saying it.
We, the fans, are the main stakeholders.
From a PR point of view Sisu have fucked it up big time.
But then, can you really be surprised.? THey are so remote from the world and skills required to run a football club.
This was always going to happen. You might as well ask a fox to look after the chickens.:facepalm::facepalm:

They've been making huge business mistakes almost from the word go when they took the club on on Ranson's recommendation. Since then they have constantly failed to understand how normal business rules just don't work in football-and more to the point this lack of homework has led to another relegation and a huge decline in gates. They should be begging anyone with the money to do so to take the club off their hands, and take as big a hit as necessary to make it happen.

 

[RoboCCFC90]

1) Those who actually have a public and recognisable face (the Council) have a duty to safeguard the interests of the City ratepayers.
As such they will try and get the best deal for them.....some of whom are actually supporters of the club too.
If new owners come in the Council may offer - with ACL - an inducement to develop the ground around the Arena.
They have already looked into the whites of Sisu's eyes and have been able to trust what they see.
Given that they have nothing to gain (personally) from such an agreement I prefer to trust their judgement.
This is about judgement, an evaluation based on past behaviours, "hate" doesn't come into it.
I hope this addresses your concerns....or some of them.

"if any new owner is priced out of Arena?"
Then market forces prevail....and the new club has to renegotiate.
This is something that should have been addressed a long time ago. Sisu said (then) that it was not on the agenda.
This was a mistake. Their mistake.


Your last point:
It is difficult to see how on earth any court will find against ACL. The court has already ruled in their favour.
It is Sisu who have breached an agreement, not ACL!?!

Your first point is flawed you say that ACL/CCC act in the best interests of the people and there investments and for all tax payers and not just supporters of the Football Club to find the best investors to buy the Arena, yet there must come a time where they accept that ACL/CCC are not doing the right thing by holding up negotiations to the Arena which are faltering the chances of the Football Club moving forward despite the owners or there judgement, we are not asking CCC/ACL to be the jurors on who is the best suitors "Personally"

Your second point, Where I agree to an extent the original agreement was flawed to begin with and should have been questioned before SISU took the club over, £1,200,000 a year in rent is ridiculous and after the previous owners sold the clubs right to revenues we were doomed to fail and this was before SISU's arrival.

Your final point, Oldskyblue has already made arguments to why the court may adjourn this hearing, but SISU will not take this situation lying down and will fight this situation.

 

[sky blue john]

Actually, yes I did. I was part of the RR campaign that tried to force them out. I handed out flyers outside HR as people went into the ground and got sworn at by a lot of fans for doing so.

There you go, SBJ. There you go.

To save embarrassment you can PM the apology.

Who were you trying to force out ?

 

[coundonskyblue]

Your first point is flawed you say that ACL/CCC act in the best interests of the people and there investments and for all tax payers and not just supporters of the Football Club to find the best investors to buy the Arena, yet there must come a time where they accept that ACL/CCC are not doing the right thing by holding up negotiations to the Arena which are faltering the chances of the Football Club moving forward despite the owners or there judgement, we are not asking CCC/ACL to be the jurors on who is the best suitors "Personally"

Your second point, Where I agree to an extent the original agreement was flawed to begin with and should have been questioned before SISU took the club over, £1,200,000 a year in rent is ridiculous and after the previous owners sold the clubs right to revenues we were doomed to fail and this was before SISU's arrival.

Your final point, Oldskyblue has already made arguments to why the court may adjourn this hearing, but SISU will not take this situation lying down and will fight this situation.

Could you give us a definition of the word negotiation please?

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

Originally Posted by Sky Blue Kid
Any investor that comes in not only saying but doing the right things will get my vote. SISU have zero credibility, especially with ACL/CCC.
In answer to.....RoboCCFC90..And who says that are next owners will be better or possibly worse?.....Unlike SISU,(Whom it took 6 years to realise their tenure has been a total disaster) ACL/CCC will learn by SISU's mistakes, and "Vet" the next owner with a "Fine tooth comb"



RoboCCFC90 says....

Might be for ACL/CCC too learn who means that the next owner will be Fit or Proper? The reason the next owners will be better in your opinion is because they are not SISU, not because you believe they may do better for us.



Try reading the last line that's highlighted mate

 

[CJparker]

They've been making huge business mistakes almost from the word go when they took the club on on Ranson's recommendation. Since then they have constantly failed to understand how normal business rules just don't work in football-and more to the point this lack of homework has led to another relegation and a huge decline in gates. They should be begging anyone with the money to do so to take the club off their hands, and take as big a hit as necessary to make it happen.

Exactly. Couldn't agree with this more.

 

[RoboCCFC90]

Who initiated the boycott which has landed us with our accounts frozen and a court hearing? Who appointed an orange as chairman? Last season the radio was full of hardcore supporters calling in saying they just didn't want to go up anymore. That is the legacy they will leave.

Who signed too the ret agreement which was ridiculous in it's entirety due to the amount of rent paid? Who sold off our revenue rights to ensure we didn't profit from the Arena? Who has stopped negotiations with regards to the rent? Who has then filed for Admin despite the club is a position to gain promotion and then claim that they "Did it for the fans"??

 

[dadgad]

They've been making huge business mistakes almost from the word go when they took the club on on Ranson's recommendation. Since then they have constantly failed to understand how normal business rules just don't work in football-and more to the point this lack of homework has led to another relegation and a huge decline in gates. They should be begging anyone with the money to do so to take the club off their hands, and take as big a hit as necessary to make it happen.

Sisu have got their fingers burned but are stubbornly refusing to give way, recognise their intractability.
This comes down to hubris.
Their investors must regret the day they got involved.

 

[torchomatic]

Richardson and Robinson. No PMs yet.

Who were you trying to force out ?

 

[CJparker]

SISU will not take this situation lying down and will fight this situation.

If they choose to fight, ACL should lock them out of the Ricoh and see how they like that.

 

[CJparker]

Richardson and Robinson. No PMs yet.

You were right in your opposition to them - so why not adopt the same attitude to SISU?