Fisher On CWR after 8 This Morning (3 Viewers)

[cloughie]

i believe fisher on one thing, sisu are in this for long haul

ACL and c**t council are adamant they wont deal with sisu so TF and co need to look elsewhere

mutton is already downplaying giving 50% ACL to chinese investers ffs, they do not want CCFC to flourish!

if only TF could confirm that stadium would be in a good location

Not true Mutton has made no comment councilor Maton has and he is an individual, not speaking as a council representative

don't worry about TF as I can confirm the stadium is in a decent enough location .............

71 Pheonix way Coventry

 

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[Jack Griffin]

This just adds to my feeling that SISU are somehow making money out of the club by some means other than the footballing side. Even the most inept owners would surely realise that they need to try and keep the fans at least a little bit onside if they are to go ahead with ground sharing and then building a new stadium but they keep coming out with statement that will only incense the fans further. It seems clear to me that they only need the club to stay in existence, not to actually succeed. Wish i knew what the reason was.

SISU are in the distressed debt business. They buy a company in debt, cut its losses and then sell it on at a much greater price than they paid for it. It is a high risk, but potentially high reward strategy.

http://www.investopedia.com/articles/bonds/08/distressed-debt-hedge-fund.asp

 

[chiefdave]

SISU are in the distressed debt business. They buy a company in debt, cut its losses and then sell it on at a much greater price than they paid for it. It is a high risk, but potentially high reward strategy.

http://www.investopedia.com/articles/bonds/08/distressed-debt-hedge-fund.asp

but what's their exit strategy? even if they did build their own ground they wouldn't be able to sell the club & ground package for enough to recoup their investment. The only way I can think of is getting to the prem, pocket the money and sell up but how many teams who are performing well on the pitch are also doing well on a finance front? Can anyone see SISU being able to get us to the prem??? I could see that they would run the club at break even and hold on hoping someone would make an offer that would get them their moeny back but if we're talking about outlay for a new ground they'll never be able to make that back.

 

[Sba180]

"Football is very emotional"
Yes Timmy. Emotional enough to stop us giving you and joy one penny more!

Go now

 

[bigfatronssba]

<p>

Shane &quot;A lot of people are saying they want SISU out. How do you react&quot;</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>TF &quot;I still have a job to do, and SISU own the club. People can say what they like, but it wont make any difference&quot;

The arrogance of this statement astounds me.

Anyone waivering in their threat to boycott next year needs to remember this quote.

Lets see if it makes a difference when crowds are down 90% next year.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

They've been more than happy to talk to other people who have nothing to do with the club, to discuss potential arrangements if they take over.

Given SISU undoubtedly own part of the club in some form, it seems surprising they refuse the same. That's no more constructive to a resolution than anything else.

The issue there NW is Fisher's admission that planning for a new ground was supposedly going on as early as last December, before fresh talks about rent happened in January. They have never had any intention of co-operating.

 

[James Smith]

They've been more than happy to talk to other people who have nothing to do with the club, to discuss potential arrangements if they take over.

Given SISU undoubtedly own part of the club in some form, it seems surprising they refuse the same. That's no more constructive to a resolution than anything else.

I thought they were talking to some of the potential purchasers of LTD and therefore the lease so sounds very normal to me.
+what BSB has posted above.

 

[grego_gee]

It will be a race to the bottom ,to mittigate any positive outlay it would require them to make.
Its utterly Ilogical and Economically flawed,this is'nt their normal Modus Operandi ,something other than football going on here.

It ain't all that bad!
Just because ccfc are not making a profit does not mean its owners aren't!
They are taking 1 or 2m (10-20% of turnover) a year and this is to be expected, so would any other owner.
Get used to this its a fact of life, even if the club was 100% fan owned there would still be costs, salaries and overheads.
But it makes some logic of the statement SISU are in for the long haul, so look on the bright side!

imp:

 

[Godiva]

It ain't all that bad!
Just because ccfc are not making a profit does not mean its owners aren't!
They are taking 1 or 2m (10-20% of turnover) a year and this is to be expected, so would any other owner.
Get used to this its a fact of life, even if the club was 100% fan owned there would still be costs, salaries and overheads.
But it makes some logic of the statement SISU are in for the long haul, so look on the bright side!

imp:

Where did you see this?
All the efforts so far by the people on here who know their debet and credit have shown no sign of sisu ever taking one penny out - only putting in some £30m.
The 'management fees' referred to by many is an instrument to move assets between the companies in the group.

A hedge fund manager is usually paid a success fee (2%-3%) by the funds - not by the company they manage.

 

[dekker]

but what's their exit strategy? even if they did build their own ground they wouldn't be able to sell the club & ground package for enough to recoup their investment. The only way I can think of is getting to the prem, pocket the money and sell up but how many teams who are performing well on the pitch are also doing well on a finance front? Can anyone see SISU being able to get us to the prem??? I could see that they would run the club at break even and hold on hoping someone would make an offer that would get them their moeny back but if we're talking about outlay for a new ground they'll never be able to make that back.

they want the ricoh and the land....that's their aim...everything else is just fluff and fudge to try and force ACL to either sell it cheap or force them into administrarion and enable sisu to buy up cheap off the administrator...

they tried to force acl in admin by witholding rent...council underwrite acl....acl applied for admin order...so sisu put themselves into admin to retain a degree of control...

this is how they do business...when fisher says 'long haul' he means long legal fight....

they want to buy the stadium cheap and sell on for massive profit...that's what it all boils down to.

 

[Manchester_sky_blue]

SISU are in the distressed debt business. They buy a company in debt, cut its losses and then sell it on at a much greater price than they paid for it. It is a high risk, but potentially high reward strategy.

http://www.investopedia.com/articles/bonds/08/distressed-debt-hedge-fund.asp

Yeah I get that but the club are now in a significantly worse state than they were when SISU took control and the only way out of it so far as SISU are concerned is to build a whole new stadium and effectively start again. Which is going to take at least 3 years, during which they will have to pay to groundshare somewhere and have greatly reduced income from falling attendances.

It makes no sense for them to stay on and invest the kind of cash they are talking about unless they are making money off some other hidden source of income, or at the very least able to launder other debts through the club. There is definitely something else going on beyond the obvious.

 

[James Smith]

they want the ricoh and the land....that's their aim...everything else is just fluff and fudge to try and force ACL to either sell it cheap or force them into administrarion and enable sisu to buy up cheap off the administrator...

they tried to force acl in admin by witholding rent...council underwrite acl....acl applied for admin order...so sisu put themselves into admin to retain a degree of control...

this is how they do business...when fisher says 'long haul' he means long legal fight....

they want to buy the stadium cheap and sell on for massive profit...that's what it all boils down to.

Am I the only one who hoped that Long Haul meant they were going somewhere via plane - hopefully using one way tickets?

 

[kingharvest]

Yeah I get that but the club are now in a significantly worse state than they were when SISU took control and the only way out of it so far as SISU are concerned is to build a whole new stadium and effectively start again. Which is going to take at least 3 years, during which they will have to pay to groundshare somewhere and have greatly reduced income from falling attendances.

It makes no sense for them to stay on and invest the kind of cash they are talking about unless they are making money off some other hidden source of income, or at the very least able to launder other debts through the club. There is definitely something else going on beyond the obvious.

I think what you're effectively saying there is that now that SISU have realised they've cocked up, they're willing to start again on the presumption that fans will come back once we're successful.

If that is the case, maybe there is no option but to start a proper phoenix club and all follow them. We would have to make a statement where by in 3-5 years time, 3000 - 5000 fans are attending home games of this phoenix club - fans/customers that are lost to SISU forever.

Obviously we'll keep that as plan B!

 

[mattylad]

the trouble is he doesn't think its your club, you are just a pound sign to him and if he can't have your pound he will move the club where he thinks he can have someone else's. do not give this bloke any further outlets for his bile. he can't even be civil about his own choice of administrator!

 

[grego_gee]

Where did you see this?
All the efforts so far by the people on here who know their debet and credit have shown no sign of sisu ever taking one penny out - only putting in some £30m.
The 'management fees' referred to by many is an instrument to move assets between the companies in the group.

A hedge fund manager is usually paid a success fee (2%-3%) by the funds - not by the company they manage.

On another thread someone suggested there was 30% profit in the hot dogs. It would be more like 100% (or 50% of SP) in my experience, but the hot dog seller would probably declare a loss to the taxman, after costs!
The profit still goes in his pocket! In reality he probably doesn't even do a tax return, but this is the object of business, to turn a profit. Accounts are not designed to show this in fact, if anything the reverse is true, they are designed to mask it! but it has to be there or the world would stop turning!

imp:

 

[Jack Griffin]

but what's their exit strategy? even if they did build their own ground they wouldn't be able to sell the club & ground package for enough to recoup their investment. The only way I can think of is getting to the prem, pocket the money and sell up but how many teams who are performing well on the pitch are also doing well on a finance front? Can anyone see SISU being able to get us to the prem??? I could see that they would run the club at break even and hold on hoping someone would make an offer that would get them their moeny back but if we're talking about outlay for a new ground they'll never be able to make that back.

Well, I'm pretty sure it is a sale to new owners & not a new stadium whatever they say publically.

The sooner the better..

 

[Jack Griffin]

Where did you see this?
All the efforts so far by the people on here who know their debet and credit have shown no sign of sisu ever taking one penny out - only putting in some £30m.
The 'management fees' referred to by many is an instrument to move assets between the companies in the group.

A hedge fund manager is usually paid a success fee (2%-3%) by the funds - not by the company they manage.

Really, so what have they bought with this? What assets have been purchased.

OSB/squirrels analysis reckons £20M is the max that has gone in.. personally I think some of that sum is debt from interest being charged.. but its being hidden somehow.

 

[Godiva]

Really, so what have they bought with this? What assets have been purchased.

OSB/squirrels analysis reckons £20M is the max that has gone in.. personally I think some of that sum is debt from interest being charged.. but its being hidden somehow.

Hm, I am not sure how to respond.
- They have used the money to buy the company from previous owners and cover the losses ever since. Please read the FAQ's in the finance section.

- In the same section you find skybluesquirrels analysis: http://www.skybluestalk.co.uk/threads/30469-CCFC-Finances...
In the beginning he conclude that sisu have injected/invested £33m. That figure is later reduced to approx £30m. Even later he has trouble understanding the ARVO debts at £8.8m as he take Fishers word for ARVO being a company within the sisu group. This is still contested - but for sure there haven't been any net repayment of £8m. There were never that kind of money in the coffers.
So the net investment made by sisu's funds are approximately £30m up till last set of account. Probably £2m more today (as ARVO claim is now £10m).

 

[Jack Griffin]

The £20M was up to last published accounts.. 2011. This is what SBS said in his blog.. around £27M in all.. up to date..

If we remove the £6 million deduction for the goodwill impairment, which failed to become due, this would reveal an investment by SISU and its related companies of around £10 million when purchasing the club in 2007, along with only an additional £18 million over a period of six years, at around £3 million a year. SBSL Ltd owe SISU and its related companies £29.6 million according to the accounts.

I still don't believe SISU have funded it that amount & that there is interest being charged somewhere which is racking up part of the sum on the balance sheet. You tell me what they lost an additional £6M in the last 2 years given that the budgets have been much lower in that period.. sure turnover fell too, but does it make up the difference?

 

[Godiva]

The £20M was up to last published accounts.. 2011. This is what SBS said in his blog.. around £27M in all.. up to date..



I still don't believe SISU have funded it that amount & that there is interest being charged somewhere which is racking up part of the sum on the balance sheet. You tell me what they lost an additional £6M in the last 2 years given that the budgets have been much lower in that period.. sure turnover fell too, but does it make up the difference?

I have challenged skybluesquirrel to do a cash flow analysis. That should tell the story.

 

[Ashdown1]

You should be ashamed of yourself Godiva, really you should be !!

 

[Flying Fokker]

I don't think the fans can be alienated any further. It's gone past that point, so I presume he just doesn't give it a thought anymore.

I wish he would say more on WHY we left Highfield Road. He alluded to it and I think we all know who is to blame for that one. But what were the reasons?

He wasn't even there. Anecdotes from others no doubt. He is trying to appeal to the 20% who never let go of HR.

 

[dongonzalos]

i believe fisher on one thing, sisu are in this for long haul

ACL and c-unit council are adamant they wont deal with sisu so TF and co need to look elsewhere

mutton is already downplaying giving 50% ACL to chinese investers ffs, they do not want CCFC to flourish!

if only TF could confirm that stadium would be in a good location

Mr Mutton (Coventry City Fan)

Wants the club to perish?

 

[Tonylinc]

The fact is that NOBODY can deal with Sisu. They are totally untrustworthy to the point of not standing by any agreements which they reach.

 

[James Smith]

Mr Mutton (Coventry City Fan)

Wants the club to perish?

Again, this comment was attributed to Maton not Mutton although easy to see where the confusion arises.