Jch (1 Viewer)

[shmmeee]

He wasn't right to just move him on and not at least attempt at playing him to his strengths during his time here. That's nonsensical to call that a correct decision in my view. He shouldn't have brought him in, in the first place if he was just going to try and mould JCH into something he wasn't. As attempted with Chaplin and Bakayoko also.

Anyway, it's done now there's little point rehashing it.

“Play to his strengths” means change the way Robins wants the team to play, which means not playing to Robins’ strengths or the other players he’s brought in to do a job.

Agree that we bring in strikers then use them badly, but once that’s clear getting rid is the right decision and ultimately Robins was right to play the way he wanted because we went up

 

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[better days]

I always liked JCH. I wonder if he has sorted him self off the pitch and thats why his form has improved.

When he was with us. He liked to play gangster and was always posting on Insta.

I think that was part of the issue
He even came in one day with injuries after he'd been attacked in a club somewhere with some gangsta pals
Maybe he was an innocent party but other players weren't getting into similar scrapes
The sale to Bristol was pretty last minute
We normally make sure we have sell on clauses when we let a player go who's still in contract
Has it been said definitively that we don't have a sell on clause?

 

[Johhny Blue]

Let’s learn our lesson and make sure we get a sell on clause for Baka

 

[Evo1883]

Again ..Bristol and posh don't play the same way ..playing to his strengths I don't think is the actual correct term here .

I think he just matured as a player and got better

 

[shmmeee]

Again ..Bristol and posh don't play the same way ..playing to his strengths I don't think is the actual correct term here .

I think he just matured as a player and got better

I think there’s a fair point that we don’t play to any goal scorers strengths. Walker comes to mind this season. We were lucky Godden seemed to fit so well last year.

 

[Evo1883]

I think there’s a fair point that we don’t play to any goal scorers strengths. Walker comes to mind this season. We were lucky Godden seemed to fit so well last year.

I mean chance creation is ultimately the only thing a striker wants .
Somebody like JCH is decent in the air and on the ground ..the only thing he wants is the chance to score .
Posh create alot for JCH , same way that Brentford create alot for toney ...a competent striker will score .

The way we play it requires a clinical striker... godden last year was clinical
We had the 7th highest XG in the league and were top

I think there's a chance that if we had JCH upfront on his own last year we wouldn't get promoted (as an example )

With better players we'd create more

 

[Frostie]

He wasn't right to just move him on and not at least attempt at playing him to his strengths during his time here. That's nonsensical to call that a correct decision in my view. He shouldn't have brought him in, in the first place if he was just going to try and mould JCH into something he wasn't. As attempted with Chaplin and Bakayoko also.

Anyway, it's done now there's little point rehashing it.

We evolved as a team since his initial signing though. He did a decent job for us in League 2 but then we progressed into a team playing a different style which obviously JCH struggled with. In fairness, as Evo & Shmmeee said, not many strikers have thrived in it but Godden was a perfect fit last season. Could JCH have done that? I don't think so.
It's no different to moving on the likes of Burge, Grimmer, Doyle etc.

 

[KenilworthSkyBlue]

“Play to his strengths” means change the way Robins wants the team to play, which means not playing to Robins’ strengths or the other players he’s brought in to do a job.

Agree that we bring in strikers then use them badly, but once that’s clear getting rid is the right decision and ultimately Robins was right to play the way he wanted because we went up

Not really, playing to JCH's strengths simply translates to stop viewing him as a target man and utilise assets for the benefit of the team. It wouldn't really have had much of a baring on how Robins wanted to play. Equally, surely it's about what's best for the team? If a manager fails to utilise what he has at his disposal for the benefit of the team then surely that's their issue?

Yes we went up the season following JCH's departure. As I said previously in the thread it obviously worked out well for all parties. Unsure why you're attempting to claim I've said otherwise. That still doesn't make his decision right as we had a talent at our disposal which he failed to get the most out of. You're more entitled to think otherwise.

Managers failing to get the best out of some players, or overlooking good players altogether is a foregone conclusion of management. I'm sure most, if not all, managers have done it at least once during their careers. So, it's unfair to lambast Robins for it but I still view it as an error of judgement and another example of his (at times) counterproductive stubbornness with players.

 

[mrtrench]

I mean chance creation is ultimately the only thing a striker wants .
Somebody like JCH is decent in the air and on the ground ..the only thing he wants is the chance to score .
Posh create alot for JCH , same way that Brentford create alot for toney ...a competent striker will score .

The way we play it requires a clinical striker... godden last year was clinical
We had the 7th highest XG in the league and were top

I think there's a chance that if we had JCH upfront on his own last year we wouldn't get promoted (as an example )

With better players we'd create more

Agree with this. The team has let Max down badly this season.

 

[Evo1883]

Agree with this. The team has let Max down badly this season.

Haha fuck off he's missed a fair few ...but yea , every striker could do with more chances

 

[mrtrench]

Haha fuck off he's missed a fair few ...but yea , every striker could do with more chances

Not biting any more? It's been fun.

 

[Evo1883]

Not biting any more? It's been fun.

Nah I came to admire your humour in other threads so I can't be arsed lol

 

[Grendel]

Ah well we can be happy that we’ve moved on from Clarke Harris and resigning Biamou on a one year extension will put the icing on the cake regarding how much we’ve improved

 

[Ccfcisparks]

Ah well we can be happy that we’ve moved on from Clarke Harris and resigning Biamou on a one year extension will put the icing on the cake regarding how much we’ve improved

You still haven't answered my question G, who was the starter in League 2 JCH or Mcnulty?

 

[KenilworthSkyBlue]

We evolved as a team since his initial signing though. He did a decent job for us in League 2 but then we progressed into a team playing a different style which obviously JCH struggled with. In fairness, as Evo & Shmmeee said, not many strikers have thrived in it but Godden was a perfect fit last season. Could JCH have done that? I don't think so.
It's no different to moving on the likes of Burge, Grimmer, Doyle etc.

Not really, as the players you've mentioned weren't good enough in relation to our ambitions. JCH quite obviously was but he simply didn't play how Robins wanted him to. Simply saying that player X didn't fit the system so Robins was right to move him on, when he actively sought out said player is a pretty facile point of view in my opinion.

However, was it best for all parties he moved on? Absolutely, as it worked out in the end. That still doesn't mean it wasn't a missed opportunity.

I disagree I think ironically last seasons formation when we switched to wing backs would have been an ideal fit.

 

[KenilworthSkyBlue]

Again ..Bristol and posh don't play the same way ..playing to his strengths I don't think is the actual correct term here .

I think he just matured as a player and got better

He hit the ground running pretty much as soon as he arrived at Bristol.

I highly doubt he'd suddenly matured/dramatically improved within the space of a few weeks of leaving the club.

 

[skybluetony176]

Good luck to the lad. I suspect English premiership might be a step too far for him but can see him doing a good job in Scotland. Either way wherever he goes I hope it works out for him.

 

[Skybluefaz]

He hit the ground running pretty much as soon as he arrived at Bristol.

I highly doubt he'd suddenly matured/dramatically improved within the space of a few weeks of leaving the club.

A move to a club lower down in the food chain could do exactly that. Be a kick up the arse that you need.

 

[shmmeee]

I mean chance creation is ultimately the only thing a striker wants .
Somebody like JCH is decent in the air and on the ground ..the only thing he wants is the chance to score .
Posh create alot for JCH , same way that Brentford create alot for toney ...a competent striker will score .

The way we play it requires a clinical striker... godden last year was clinical
We had the 7th highest XG in the league and were top

I think there's a chance that if we had JCH upfront on his own last year we wouldn't get promoted (as an example )

With better players we'd create more

Great, well just put Messi at CB then because he’s a better player than McFadzean. It doesn’t work like that. Godden plays with his back to goal, JCH and Walker don’t.

Last season was build on a high possession midfield which Godden was a big part of helping out with. JCH doesn’t want to do what Godden does. It’s the same as Max plying now over Walker, Walker wouldn’t thrive in Max’s role, just because he’s a better player doesn’t mean he’d fit the team or role better.

 

[shmmeee]

Not really, playing to JCH's strengths simply translates to stop viewing him as a target man and utilise assets for the benefit of the team. It wouldn't really have had much of a baring on how Robins wanted to play. Equally, surely it's about what's best for the team? If a manager fails to utilise what he has at his disposal for the benefit of the team then surely that's their issue?

Yes we went up the season following JCH's departure. As I said previously in the thread it obviously worked out well for all parties. Unsure why you're attempting to claim I've said otherwise. That still doesn't make his decision right as we had a talent at our disposal which he failed to get the most out of. You're more entitled to think otherwise.

Managers failing to get the best out of some players, or overlooking good players altogether is a foregone conclusion of management. I'm sure most, if not all, managers have done it at least once during their careers. So, it's unfair to lambast Robins for it but I still view it as an error of judgement and another example of his (at times) counterproductive stubbornness with players.

But we play with a target man. If you aren’t going to utilise JCH in that role then you’re sticking him at CM or something, or you’re changing the shape of the team to fit him in.

 

[Evo1883]

Great, well just put Messi at CB then because he’s a better player than McFadzean. It doesn’t work like that. Godden plays with his back to goal, JCH and Walker don’t.

Last season was build on a high possession midfield which Godden was a big part of helping out with. JCH doesn’t want to do what Godden does. It’s the same as Max plying now over Walker, Walker wouldn’t thrive in Max’s role, just because he’s a better player doesn’t mean he’d fit the team or role better.

That's not what I said ...I said better players in the team in general, we will create more chances .. one of the reasons we don't create a ton is because of the teams overall ability at this level ...is where I was getting at .

It's why 6 of the bottom 7 teams in the xg tables are also in a relegation fight

I don't know why you then went on to describe the players traits.

 

[shmmeee]

That's not what I said ...I said better players in the team in general, we will create more chances .. one of the reasons we don't create a ton is because of the teams overall ability at this level ...is where I was getting at .

It's why 6 of the bottom 7 teams in the xg tables are also in a relegation fight

I don't know why you then went on to describe the players traits.

Why didn’t we create those chances when JCH was in the team?

 

[NorthernWisdom]

It's safe to say that JCH is one wot got away. Doesn't make Robins a bad manager of course, but his use of strikers is often... odd. Chaplin's another that springs to mind - given the amount of effort we put in to sign him, you'd think we'd have played to a system that benefited him!

 

[Evo1883]

Why didn’t we create those chances when JCH was in the team?

Right ok I got a bit confused with which season we were at lol .

our xg wasn't particularly high in 2018/19 .

A side that had just been promoted from league 2 though probably did as expected 11th highest xg finished 8th .

We didn't create a great deal last year to be fair but were very good at the back

 

[Evo1883]

JCH conversion rate is pretty much the same as walker's this season too btw .
Infact walkers is slightly higher

They just create alot more, which is all I said tbh

 

[Evo1883]

We are very wasteful .

Clarke harris and biamou this season , biamou has basically half the game time

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

We are very wasteful .

Clarke harris and biamou this seasonView attachment 19392

That's painful to see

 

[shmmeee]

We are very wasteful .

Clarke harris and biamou this seasonView attachment 19392

What does Walkers look like out of interest?

 

[Evo1883]

What does Walkers look like out of interest?

Higher rate than Clarke harris ...1 minute

 

[shmmeee]

Honestly think Walker will be another striker we don’t use properly who goes to another team (probably Barnsley) and absolutely smashes it.

 

[Evo1883]

Honestly think Walker will be another striker we don’t use properly who goes to another team (probably Barnsley) and absolutely smashes it.

Alot less game time , we create less for him but that's obvious at the level we are at and position , but he's clinical

More clinical this season than godden who is at around 20% , but can be forgiven somewhat as his return from injury was laughable

 

[Frostie]

Not really, as the players you've mentioned weren't good enough in relation to our ambitions. JCH quite obviously was but he simply didn't play how Robins wanted him to. Simply saying that player X didn't fit the system so Robins was right to move him on, when he actively sought out said player is a pretty facile point of view in my opinion.

However, was it best for all parties he moved on? Absolutely, as it worked out in the end. That still doesn't mean it wasn't a missed opportunity.

I disagree I think ironically last seasons formation when we switched to wing backs would have been an ideal fit.

Fair comments & I don't disagree. He sought him out to get promoted from League 2 & consolidate in League 1 though which he helped with. We evolved though in order to get promoted again to the Championship & that's obviously where he felt he wouldn't be as effective.

This was what Robins said a few months after JCH left:

“Regrets? No.
I think he’s a good player and have said that all along. He’s playing in a team now that plays to his strengths and that’s the key for him.
I think there were some chances he had that he missed but there’s a way of playing Jonno that isn’t what we do. And I think it suits his style at Bristol Rovers."

 

[Frostie]

View attachment 19393

3rd of the game time , we create less for him but that's obvious at the level we are at and position but it seems he needs to play tbh ..off matty godden if in a 2

Yeah, agreed. He scored most of his goals at Lincoln as a lone striker but not sure how well he'd play that role for us because, as we've all said, we ask an awful lot of the striker.
Robins has been quite open about the fact he wants to pair Walker & Godden though, hopefully we can finally get to see that during the run in.

 

[Evo1883]

Still think godden and Walker are what I'd like to see with o hare behind

 

[shmmeee]

Yeah, agreed. He scored most of his goals at Lincoln as a lone striker but not sure how well he'd play that role for us because, as we've all said, we ask an awful lot of the striker.
Robins has been quite open about the fact he wants to pair Walker & Godden though, hopefully we can finally get to see that during the run in.

My concern is Robins seemed to run a mile from the idea of two up front recently. Been saying in interviews “it’s not us” and defending one up against Wycombe etc.

Fair enough if that’s what he wants to play, but if he does buying Walker was a massive waste of everyone’s time.