Sisu make official complaint over Coventry councillors' conduct (3 Viewers)

SkyblueBazza

Well-Known Member
A nice idea but from what I have been told the idea of moving out only came about as ACL refused to come to the table to negotiate a better deal for the club.

When I was told this I went back and looked carefully at PWKH's comments on here and he very pointedly always uses the phrase 'no formal discussions took place', of course at the time we all, myself included, lapped that up as evidence against SISU. With hindsight it seems it was a very deliberate phrasing, the implication being discussions were requested but didn't occur.
I don't see how you gain that implication from those words myself.

PUSB
 

Chipfat

Well-Known Member
I dont understand what looking back at what was said gets us, it makes no difference to the outcome.. Sisu have to do 1 of 3 things, sell, build or pay rent and try to compete on the field to get higher value of what they have.. At this moment any action in courts, threats or spin do not shout out they are really pushing for the future, says more about looking at the past..

FAns need to move on,, this sort of topic always leads to this sort of revolving she said, he said, or they did this... It really changes nothing,, we need Sisu to change and push us forward,, if they are really seeing a long term future in this club..
 

SkyBlue_Bear83

Well-Known Member
it wouldn't. What loss did SISU suffer by the Council making a loan?

They will probably try and claim loss of earnings for the year at Sixfields, by claiming the council forced them out of the Ricoh. I know that was what was being talked about before.
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
it wouldn't. What loss did SISU suffer by the Council making a loan?

Look at the top right of your screen, there's a search bar. Use it as the issue of compensation and the validity of a SISU claim should there be a ruling in their favour has been discussed in detail more than once.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
Its been discussed often on here the limited powers the judge in the JR actually has and that a victory for SISU would lead to a second case where they make an application for compensation.

If anything I would say the sale of ACL to Wasps has increased the amount they might try and claim. Previously they could only really claim losses for the year at Sixfields, now they could be looking at a lot more. Of course they have the slight problem of needing to win the JR first.

Why do you think that the sale to Wasps would increase the amount?
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
I don't see how you gain that implication from those words myself.

Because its not a natural phrase. If someone asked if there had ever been a request to review the rent its a yes or no question. The repeated use of an unnatural phrase which is ambiguous implies to me that something is being hidden.
 

Intheknow

New Member
If SISU had a compensatory claim they would have have made it by now I suspect. Don't forget the financial landscape didn't change, merely the provider of the facility.
 

Sky Blue Harry H

Well-Known Member
Joy to legal advisers "Is it worth another go?"

Legal adviser to Joy "Yes, and if we lose we have plan x, y and z to follow on with"

Joy to legal adviser "OK, in for a penny, in for a pound"

Legal adviser to Travel agent "upgrade the Mauritius holiday from a fortnight to a month" :facepalm:
 

Intheknow

New Member
Look at the top right of your screen, there's a search bar. Use it as the issue of compensation and the validity of a SISU claim should there be a ruling in their favour has been discussed in detail more than once.

Please save me the time and let me know the basis of a claim for compensation?
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
It's been personal for a while, getting pretty embarrassing now.

Just move the club on FFS.
 

James Smith

Well-Known Member
You have to wonder where we'd be if from day one they'd put the amount of effort they put into court cases into getting the club moving in the right direction.

Reuniting the club with the stadium should have been a priority, what was Onye doing whilst he was here?
 

duffer

Well-Known Member
Coincidence that the complaint is made on the day the the main claim under the judicial review collapses?

Technically, I think the main claim is that the loan consituted illegal state aid. One of the remedies, should that be found to be true, was that the loan should be repaid by Wasps to CCC.

That remedy is now off the table, but the claim itself remains. I'm honestly not sure if the point of the JR is ultimately to seek compensation, or if it is to show how badly SISU feel they have been treated by CCC, or both.

I'd certainly like all of the dealings of CCC with regards to ACL and Wasps put under the spotlight a bit more though, so I've got no issue with either the JR or the complaint to the LGO. Of the two, I suspect that the LGO complaint will be resolved the fastest and could make for some interesting reading. I'm not saying it's going to be successful by the way, I only know what's in the public domain, the same as everyone else here - but the council will have to respond to it.

Regardless, let's get it all out there and we can judge for ourselves whether the conduct of the council and individual councillors has been acceptable.

As for coincidence, I find it interesting that Wasps have acted so quickly to remove the obvious risk posed by SISU's JR. Do they know something we don't?
 

hutch1972

Well-Known Member
Reuniting the club with the stadium should have been a priority, what was Onye doing whilst he was here?

I'm quite sure had it been available on the terms it was sold for they would of.
ccc were ripping this club off for as long as possible, which is confirmed by the huge drop in rent after they returned.
sisu will by all accounts lose the Jr but there is nothing i would like more than to see Lucas and Mutton answering searching questions on their conduct.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
They will probably try and claim loss of earnings for the year at Sixfields, by claiming the council forced them out of the Ricoh. I know that was what was being talked about before.

Doesn't letting them finish the season of the rent strike and then offering repeatedly lower offers to first stay and then return with them ultimately returning dismiss a claim that they were forced out? Especially as they refused to respond to those offers?
 

Moff

Well-Known Member
If SISU had a compensatory claim they would have have made it by now I suspect. Don't forget the financial landscape didn't change, merely the provider of the facility.

You clearly arent in the know about SISU are you. Where theres a mere whiff of blame there will be a claim. Dont presume just because they havent doesnt mean they wont.
 

olderskyblue

Well-Known Member
Because its not a natural phrase. If someone asked if there had ever been a request to review the rent its a yes or no question. The repeated use of an unnatural phrase which is ambiguous implies to me that something is being hidden.

I think it implies whatever it is you want it to imply chief. It probably implies something completely different to people with a different agenda.....
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
I am not bothered by this, it isn't a court case, it doesn't cost anything and it scrutinises the conduct of public officials. I can't remember SISU behaving as unprofessionally as that idiot Mutton.
 

stupot07

Well-Known Member
I'm probably a little naive but if Sisu showed ACL the true financial position of the club and where it was leading it could be scrutinised and sensible sliding scale of rentals could be worked on . Not submitting accounts could appear to be hiding them.

ACL knew full well what our account looked like, the fact we'd virtually gone to the wall on relegation, the fact we had to sell our share in ACL, the fact that sisu had to step in the first place, and it was a known fact we were losing £6-7m pa under sisu just to tread water int be championship, that debt was mounting, that we were having to sell our best players to help fund losses, that crowds and therefore income was dwindling, and they knew that relegation would lead to c£5m reduction of income. Let's not use late submission of accounts as an excuse for ACL not wanting to lower rent.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors :)
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
The repayment of the Wasps loan early could strengthen the SISU case. If Wasps could raise £35m then why didn't they do it at the outset?
 

letsallsingtogether

Well-Known Member
Technically, I think the main claim is that the loan consituted illegal state aid. One of the remedies, should that be found to be true, was that the loan should be repaid by Wasps to CCC.

That remedy is now off the table, but the claim itself remains. I'm honestly not sure if the point of the JR is ultimately to seek compensation, or if it is to show how badly SISU feel they have been treated by CCC, or both.

I'd certainly like all of the dealings of CCC with regards to ACL and Wasps put under the spotlight a bit more though, so I've got no issue with either the JR or the complaint to the LGO. Of the two, I suspect that the LGO complaint will be resolved the fastest and could make for some interesting reading. I'm not saying it's going to be successful by the way, I only know what's in the public domain, the same as everyone else here - but the council will have to respond to it.

Regardless, let's get it all out there and we can judge for ourselves whether the conduct of the council and individual councillors has been acceptable.

As for coincidence, I find it interesting that Wasps have acted so quickly to remove the obvious risk posed by SISU's JR. Do they know something we don't?

No I think they are just better business people shame we never had someone like them at the helm instead of the joke we have at the moment.
 

Intheknow

New Member
Technically, I think the main claim is that the loan consituted illegal state aid. One of the remedies, should that be found to be true, was that the loan should be repaid by Wasps to CCC.

That remedy is now off the table, but the claim itself remains. I'm honestly not sure if the point of the JR is ultimately to seek compensation, or if it is to show how badly SISU feel they have been treated by CCC, or both.

I'd certainly like all of the dealings of CCC with regards to ACL and Wasps put under the spotlight a bit more though, so I've got no issue with either the JR or the complaint to the LGO. Of the two, I suspect that the LGO complaint will be resolved the fastest and could make for some interesting reading. I'm not saying it's going to be successful by the way, I only know what's in the public domain, the same as everyone else here - but the council will have to respond to it.

Regardless, let's get it all out there and we can judge for ourselves whether the conduct of the council and individual councillors has been acceptable.

As for coincidence, I find it interesting that Wasps have acted so quickly to remove the obvious risk posed by SISU's JR. Do they know something we don't?

there is only one relief sought and able to be sought re the loan, repayment. No other remedy is sought or claimed. With the repayment that relief falls away.

the second claim was that Wasps got given a 250 year lease for nothing. That has also now been blown out of the water.

JR redundant. So let's complain to LGO. And then, SISU will stamp its foot.
 

stupot07

Well-Known Member
there is only one relief sought and able to be sought re the loan, repayment. No other remedy is sought or claimed. With the repayment that relief falls away.

the second claim was that Wasps got given a 250 year lease for nothing. That has also now been blown out of the water.

JR redundant. So let's complain to LGO. And then, SISU will stamp its foot.

Yay. Ccfc hedgefund 0 - 2 wasps hedgefund


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors :)
 

letsallsingtogether

Well-Known Member
Yay. Ccfc hedgefund 0 - 2 wasps hedgefund


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors :)

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
 

Paxman II

Well-Known Member
I don't have a problem with this. SISU can do what they want in their back office so long as it does not interfere with the on-going operations of the football club. Too many on here are relating everything SISU as an act brought about by CCFC to it's determent.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
The repayment of the Wasps loan early could strengthen the SISU case. If Wasps could raise £35m then why didn't they do it at the outset?

Isn't a JR up to a certain point in time? What happened after the Wasps deal was done is surely irrelevant if JR 2, J Harder get's the go ahead it's supposed to be about the takeover. The fact that they raised revenue after this point and paid off the loan early is surely about as relevant as whether they qualified for Europe or not?
 

James Smith

Well-Known Member
I'm quite sure had it been available on the terms it was sold for they would of.
ccc were ripping this club off for as long as possible, which is confirmed by the huge drop in rent after they returned.
sisu will by all accounts lose the Jr but there is nothing i would like more than to see Lucas and Mutton answering searching questions on their conduct.

As I understand it one of the reasons that prevented Sisu from bidding was the IEC structure. When Sisu came in that structure didn't exist, as far as I know ACL was a much simpler company back then and would have been easier to dismantle if that's what they wanted to do (bring in AEG etc.). One of the reasons I was very keen on them coming in was they had the money to buy our half of ACL back which the last lot didn't. Once we had half we would have had a foot in the door and could have prevented the council from selling our home. Tim (and Joy) have been saying for some time that we need all the stadium income for the club and I don't dispute that. However thanks to at least one court case we know what efforts went into acquiring half of the Ricoh late into game - pun not intended, (we may have had more of the matchday revenue in Northampton but with diminished gates) and we're still no closer to the New Stadium than at the fans forum almost two years ago.

I said that if the (two faced) council got someone else in or someone to buy ACL we'd either have to hope Joy would build the mythical 'New Stadium' or we'd be homeless. I was told that there was no chance that they'd get a new tenant or anyone to buy ACL. Admittedly we didn't know that the (hypocritical) council were going to offer a longer leasehold for any buyer of ACL, but it still means that we're homeless.
 
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fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
Isn't a JR up to a certain point in time? What happened after the Wasps deal was done is surely irrelevant if JR 2, J Harder get's the go ahead it's supposed to be about the takeover. The fact that they raised revenue after this point and paid off the loan early is surely about as relevant as whether they qualified for Europe or not?

Yes perhaps JR2 if that happens. All seems a bit rushed.
 

SkyBlue_Bear83

Well-Known Member
Doesn't letting them finish the season of the rent strike and then offering repeatedly lower offers to first stay and then return with them ultimately returning dismiss a claim that they were forced out? Especially as they refused to respond to those offers?

Probably yes, although I'm not really counting the offers after we had left as it's a little too late then. I'm just thinking what argument SISU would put forward.
 

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