The Battle Has Been Lost But Not The War (1 Viewer)

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

Fair enough that's your decision, just don't moan about lack of signings or selling players when we eventual get out of this embargo.

This years FFP budget will be set by last years turnover; which Fisher benefits from as it was a larger stadium he didn't pay for.

This year's attendance will have a bearing on subsequent year's budgets.

Fisher stated SISU would fund as they were in it for the long haul. If you believe him, this year - therefore - wont be a problem

 

---

[true sky blue]

OK here goes.
#

question: if you were the owners (sisu) and you had to make a business decision (based purely on money and nothing else) would you

A) buy the Ricoh for £70 million (pay up on debts to acl within that payment) and payout to all the staff whom work in the ricoh, pay for the running costs of the ricoh (remember they have been running at a loss)

or

B) build your own stadium holding 25000 (more than enough seats for us) for £35 million (maybe a shinier build for £45million but its a saving of £25million or more! it is a no-brainer)

it doesn't take a genius to work out why SISU have the upper hand in this scenario. of course they want to build, if they cant own the ground and be able to use the land opposite, buy into infrastructure, and make profit they will have no other business choice than to build and own outright! why are our fans finding this so hard to understand!

sorry but i disagree with a lot of fans here. i have just joined this forum after reading this post by Torchomatic. I seriously do not want us to continue playing in the ricoh arena. To be honest with you the place is toxic and has never ever been an advantage to our team. I understand that is also down to a complete lack of numbers in fans but the results have been terrible at home since the Ricoh opened OVERALL.

I can not stand the atmosphere, many of us would prefer a smaller compact stadium based on highfield road for numbers of seats because a half filled ground is still better than a third filled super arena. you only have to look at some of the grounds we have been to last year in league 1 - seven thousand fans in the ground and the atmosphere being 20 times better than we can ever raise in the Ricoh. for me football is not only about the ball play, the skill and the admiration of the dedication by players - loyalty etc... but atmosphere is the main consideration for me. If i want to be a purist football fan the truth is i wouldn't need to watch a poor team play at a standard so low in front of 10,000 fans in an arena fit for the premier league ... no, the truth is there are better non league sides that play in front of 1 to 2 thousand and the atmosphere is 10 times better.

add to this the problems with transport, parking, the astronomical pricing structure (for div 3!!!) the over zealous stewards, the non banter crowds, the fighting between ourselves in the stands, the players really not putting in a full game, umpteen managers, the price of the rent causing so much strife, the council backing ACL with 14 million preventing a takeover by sisu, the dogfights being played on and off the pitch, the embarrasing morgue atmosphere, the booing, the lack of real entertainment, the loss of 15 thousand disenchanted fans!

in truth i believe the row between the council and remember ACL is actually the council, (the 14 million makes them owners by proxy) in truth the only thing that would bring most of the 15 thousand missing fans back would be a brand new fresh start, a new stadium sounds very good to those disillusioned fans. if there is one thing you can be sure of is SISU would build an stadium fit for purpose and the surrounding areas would be a huge money spinning venture. councils near to Coventry on the borders would bend over for sisu to invest in their area. !! the pay offs for some of those smaller councils would clearly outweigh any loyalty they have to Coventry council. its food for thought guys, I just think that although there is a percentage on this forum want is to play in the ricoh and remain there - there is a bigger percentage who will never go to the Ricoh again. if you want a bigger fan base you need to remove the ricoh.

 

[stupot07]

And before anyone starts spouting that they did invest, yes they did and every player they brought was then sold on at a dam good profit and that profit went straight into THEIR pockets not on the squad:jerkit:

Fisher admitted at the forums that the net transfer spend since sisu have been here is about £0, I.e they have receive about as much as they'd spent. They haven't made £m's on selling players.

 

[stupot07]

This years FFP budget will be set by last years turnover; which Fisher benefits from as it was a larger stadium he didn't pay for.

This year's attendance will have a bearing on subsequent year's budgets.

Fisher stated SISU would fund as they were in it for the long haul. If you believe him, this year - therefore - wont be a problem

That's a naive view, wages etc will still need to be funded and they will still need income to that.

And technically once the admin process has been rubber stamped ACL will have received all money owed to them for last seasons rent.

 

[stupot07]

You mean like when they first took over and bought Dann, Fox, Westwood, Gunnarson and Eastwood. Then pleaded they needed a 24k gate to be sustainable, then us fans didn't answer the cry and then moaned when they sold players?

That is conveniently forgotten.

 

[torchomatic]

well sorry to spoil your sisu love fest !!!!!
Ccfc will not be playing at the ricoh this coming season if sisu are in control of our club unless still in admin under the control of PA !!!!
If you don't believe this because your head is in the sand ask yourself one question.
Do Sisu still want the ricoh ?
They are still trying to distress acl and their plan won't work if they are still playing their !!!

Enjoy your round trip to nene park or wherever your buddies drag my beloved club !!!
I will continue to go to away matches !!!

For one moment I thought a great unpublished Churchill speech had been discovered. Alas not.

Sent from my Galaxy S4 using Tapatalk 2

 

[skybluehugh]

You mean like when they first took over and bought Dann, Fox, Westwood, Gunnarson and Eastwood. Then pleaded they needed a 24k gate to be sustainable, then us fans didn't answer the cry and then moaned when they sold players?

And if we did have 24,000 they and you would be saying we 30,000 to keep up. just like the bollocks they spout about the rent and food/drink conisations they got 2/3 drop and still it wasn't enough.

 

[valiant15]

OK here goes.
#

question: if you were the owners (sisu) and you had to make a business decision (based purely on money and nothing else) would you

A) buy the Ricoh for £70 million (pay up on debts to acl within that payment) and payout to all the staff whom work in the ricoh, pay for the running costs of the ricoh (remember they have been running at a loss)

or

B) build your own stadium holding 25000 (more than enough seats for us) for £35 million (maybe a shinier build for £45million but its a saving of £25million or more! it is a no-brainer)

it doesn't take a genius to work out why SISU have the upper hand in this scenario. of course they want to build, if they cant own the ground and be able to use the land opposite, buy into infrastructure, and make profit they will have no other business choice than to build and own outright! why are our fans finding this so hard to understand!

sorry but i disagree with a lot of fans here. i have just joined this forum after reading this post by Torchomatic. I seriously do not want us to continue playing in the ricoh arena. To be honest with you the place is toxic and has never ever been an advantage to our team. I understand that is also down to a complete lack of numbers in fans but the results have been terrible at home since the Ricoh opened OVERALL.

I can not stand the atmosphere, many of us would prefer a smaller compact stadium based on highfield road for numbers of seats because a half filled ground is still better than a third filled super arena. you only have to look at some of the grounds we have been to last year in league 1 - seven thousand fans in the ground and the atmosphere being 20 times better than we can ever raise in the Ricoh. for me football is not only about the ball play, the skill and the admiration of the dedication by players - loyalty etc... but atmosphere is the main consideration for me. If i want to be a purist football fan the truth is i wouldn't need to watch a poor team play at a standard so low in front of 10,000 fans in an arena fit for the premier league ... no, the truth is there are better non league sides that play in front of 1 to 2 thousand and the atmosphere is 10 times better.

add to this the problems with transport, parking, the astronomical pricing structure (for div 3!!!) the over zealous stewards, the non banter crowds, the fighting between ourselves in the stands, the players really not putting in a full game, umpteen managers, the price of the rent causing so much strife, the council backing ACL with 14 million preventing a takeover by sisu, the dogfights being played on and off the pitch, the embarrasing morgue atmosphere, the booing, the lack of real entertainment, the loss of 15 thousand disenchanted fans!

in truth i believe the row between the council and remember ACL is actually the council, (the 14 million makes them owners by proxy) in truth the only thing that would bring most of the 15 thousand missing fans back would be a brand new fresh start, a new stadium sounds very good to those disillusioned fans. if there is one thing you can be sure of is SISU would build an stadium fit for purpose and the surrounding areas would be a huge money spinning venture. councils near to Coventry on the borders would bend over for sisu to invest in their area. !! the pay offs for some of those smaller councils would clearly outweigh any loyalty they have to Coventry council. its food for thought guys, I just think that although there is a percentage on this forum want is to play in the ricoh and remain there - there is a bigger percentage who will never go to the Ricoh again. if you want a bigger fan base you need to remove the ricoh.

Utter bollocks.

 

[skybluehugh]

Fisher admitted at the forums that the net transfer spend since sisu have been here is about £0, I.e they have receive about as much as they'd spent. They haven't made £m's on selling players.

Oh please forgive me how could I have been so stupid. I must stop doubting every thing he says. please tell me how I can as naïve as you, it really would make my life so much easier and stop me feeling so gut wrenchingly sick every time the twat opens his mouth

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

That's a naive view, wages etc will still need to be funded and they will still need income to that.

And technically once the admin process has been rubber stamped ACL will have received all money owed to them for last seasons rent.

What's naive? To believe Fisher's claim that they're in it for the long haul and will fund the club accordingly?

 

[DazzleTommyDazzle]

What's naive? To believe Fisher's claim that they're in it for the long haul and will fund the club accordingly?

When a few months ago liquidation was almost inevitable........

I wonder how many contradictory opinions it's possible to hold at any given time?

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

Oh please forgive me how could I have been so stupid. I must stop doubting every thing he says. please tell me how I can as naïve as you, it really would make my life so much easier and stop me feeling so gut wrenchingly sick every time the twat opens his mouth

Agreed. Even being conservative, I make us £7m up in transfers over their term. But we can't say for sure given the duplicity and undisclosed fees.

This is the man who claimed we were debt free. What he really meant was no debts to entities outside of the SISU family. Within it, we owe more than ever.

So, what trust can we have when he claims expendite has met income on transfers in their time?

And some people call me naive? Jesus....

 

[SkyBlueCharlie]

OK here goes.
#


A) buy the Ricoh for £70 million (pay up on debts to acl within that payment) and payout to all the staff whom work in the ricoh, pay for the running costs of the ricoh (remember they have been running at a loss)

If you take the time to look at their latest accounts (and yes they are up-to date - a bit more than either our current or proposed owners can achieve) then you would see that they made a profit! Get your facts right before you start spouting off.

another point...why have you seen it necessary to start another thread with the same crap post? not getting the answers your wanted?

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

Agreed. Even being conservative, I make us £7m up in transfers over their term. But we can't say for sure given the duplicity and undisclosed fees.
..

It's impossible to say anyway with all the clauses in transfers these days, the selling club rarely sees the full value of the transfer that is reported an speculated about.

 

[stupot07]

It's impossible to say anyway with all the clauses in transfers these days, the selling club rarely sees the full value of the transfer that is reported an speculated about.

Definitely. No way are we £7m up. And when they say a deal worth £xm doesn't mean that's what you get. Plus most are undisclosed and complete guess work, and added to that agents fees, signing on fees and loan fees.

 

[stupot07]

Agreed. Even being conservative, I make us £7m up in transfers over their term. But we can't say for sure given the duplicity and undisclosed fees.

This is the man who claimed we were debt free. What he really meant was no debts to entities outside of the SISU family. Within it, we owe more than ever.

So, what trust can we have when he claims expendite has met income on transfers in their time?

And some people call me naive? Jesus....

Go on list them.

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

It's impossible to say anyway with all the clauses in transfers these days, the selling club rarely sees the full value of the transfer that is reported an speculated about.

Perhaps so. But forgive my cynicism, what I've seen means that if we were genuinely break even, Fisher would embellish the story so give the impression SISU's 'investment' was significantly greater than it was.

When we asserts we're only break even, again, I believe he embellishes it to over state SISU's hand. We're well up on transfers; I'm sure

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

Go on list them.

I'll go do tomorrow. I'm in my mobile now. But to start with Dann, Fox, Best, Bigi

 

[true sky blue]

If you take the time to look at their latest accounts (and yes they are up-to date - a bit more than either our current or proposed owners can achieve) then you would see that they made a profit! Get your facts right before you start spouting off.

another point...why have you seen it necessary to start another thread with the same crap post? not getting the answers your wanted?

what a pathetic reply. how old are you ? isnt it your bed time??

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

Under SISU
Below are all departures and arrivals under SISU that involved a transfer fee

In
Fox & Dann 500k -1 mill
Bell 400-600k
Mcpake 150-300k
Eastwood 1.2-1.5 mill
Westwood 500-750k
Gunnarson 150-300k
Baker 250-500k
Wood 150-300k
Deegan 100k
Hussey 100k
Crainie 750k -1 mill
Clingan 500-750k
Mcindoe 200k
Juke 750k - 1mill
Keogh 100k
Mcdonald 250k
Dunn 100k
Barton 100k
Total 6.25 -8.95 mill
We also know they paid the tribunal fee for the Leon Best transfer which was about 600k

Out
Adebola 200k
Tabb 300k
Gray 200k
Best 1 mill
Dann 2-4 mill
Fox 1-1.5 mill
Juke 1-1.5 mill
Turner 750k -1 mill
Keogh 750k - 1 mill
Gael 750k - 1 mill

Total 7.95 - 11.7

Obviously we could argue about transfer fees and clauses until we are blue in the face but it comes out roughly as I would have thought. I would say imo we have made a slight profit on transfers, maybe 1-2 million. That really only comes from this years sales of Keogh and Gael.

 

[stupot07]

They also had to paid £600k tribunal for Borrowdale too.

I wonder how much we've paid in loan fees for various players?

 

[wingy]

They also had to paid £600k tribunal for Borrowdale too.

I wonder how much we've paid in loan fees for various players?

You sure ,Borrowdale bizarrely fetched £600K.

Don't forget Simpsom £325000 ,bought for aroun £40K.

 

[stupot07]

You sure ,Borrowdale bizarrely fetched £600K.

Don't forget Simpsom £325000 ,bought for aroun £40K.

Yep, sisu paid the tribunal fee and somehow managed to con qpr it recoup it. Forgot about Simpson

We'd also have pay villa compo for O'halloran

 

[letsallsingtogether]

That was a joke.

Yes I agree should play at the Ricoh But still wouldn't sell the Ricoh to SISU I do not believe they have the finances to do so IMHO.

Sadly there's some that disagree with you, there's even some who say we should be kicked out till sisu are gone or charged double rent
Got to stay at the Ricoh

 

[skyblueinBaku]

OK here goes.
#

question: if you were the owners (sisu) and you had to make a business decision (based purely on money and nothing else) would you

A) buy the Ricoh for £70 million (pay up on debts to acl within that payment) and payout to all the staff whom work in the ricoh, pay for the running costs of the ricoh (remember they have been running at a loss)

or

B) build your own stadium holding 25000 (more than enough seats for us) for £35 million (maybe a shinier build for £45million but its a saving of £25million or more! it is a no-brainer)

it doesn't take a genius to work out why SISU have the upper hand in this scenario. of course they want to build, if they cant own the ground and be able to use the land opposite, buy into infrastructure, and make profit they will have no other business choice than to build and own outright! why are our fans finding this so hard to understand!

sorry but i disagree with a lot of fans here. i have just joined this forum after reading this post by Torchomatic. I seriously do not want us to continue playing in the ricoh arena. To be honest with you the place is toxic and has never ever been an advantage to our team. I understand that is also down to a complete lack of numbers in fans but the results have been terrible at home since the Ricoh opened OVERALL.

I can not stand the atmosphere, many of us would prefer a smaller compact stadium based on highfield road for numbers of seats because a half filled ground is still better than a third filled super arena. you only have to look at some of the grounds we have been to last year in league 1 - seven thousand fans in the ground and the atmosphere being 20 times better than we can ever raise in the Ricoh. for me football is not only about the ball play, the skill and the admiration of the dedication by players - loyalty etc... but atmosphere is the main consideration for me. If i want to be a purist football fan the truth is i wouldn't need to watch a poor team play at a standard so low in front of 10,000 fans in an arena fit for the premier league ... no, the truth is there are better non league sides that play in front of 1 to 2 thousand and the atmosphere is 10 times better.

add to this the problems with transport, parking, the astronomical pricing structure (for div 3!!!) the over zealous stewards, the non banter crowds, the fighting between ourselves in the stands, the players really not putting in a full game, umpteen managers, the price of the rent causing so much strife, the council backing ACL with 14 million preventing a takeover by sisu, the dogfights being played on and off the pitch, the embarrasing morgue atmosphere, the booing, the lack of real entertainment, the loss of 15 thousand disenchanted fans!

in truth i believe the row between the council and remember ACL is actually the council, (the 14 million makes them owners by proxy) in truth the only thing that would bring most of the 15 thousand missing fans back would be a brand new fresh start, a new stadium sounds very good to those disillusioned fans. if there is one thing you can be sure of is SISU would build an stadium fit for purpose and the surrounding areas would be a huge money spinning venture. councils near to Coventry on the borders would bend over for sisu to invest in their area. !! the pay offs for some of those smaller councils would clearly outweigh any loyalty they have to Coventry council. its food for thought guys, I just think that although there is a percentage on this forum want is to play in the ricoh and remain there - there is a bigger percentage who will never go to the Ricoh again. if you want a bigger fan base you need to remove the ricoh.

Two points: Are you sure that the Ricoh (or ACL, I'm not sure to which you refer) is running at a loss? Secondly, your last paragraph refers to local councils bending over for Sisu. Is that to enable Sisu to shaft them?

 

[Sick Boy]

They also had to paid £600k tribunal for Borrowdale too.

I wonder how much we've paid in loan fees for various players?

I think they paid for Leon Best as well?

 

[stupot07]

I think they paid for Leon Best as well?

Yep , that's right.

 

[dadgad]

It's impossible to say anyway with all the clauses in transfers these days, the selling club rarely sees the full value of the transfer that is reported an speculated about.

Another thing, Gates.
Sometimes it appeared that the number in the ground was wildly different from official attendance.
Many have commented on this.
If ground share comes to pass maybe this will be harder to achieve.

 

[Grendel]

Another thing, Gates.
Sometimes it appeared that the number in the ground was wildly different from official attendance.
Many have commented on this.
If ground share comes to pass maybe this will be harder to achieve.

Yeah good spot they are trying to cheat on Customs and Excise.

:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Another thing, Gates.
Sometimes it appeared that the number in the ground was wildly different from official attendance.
Many have commented on this.
If ground share comes to pass maybe this will be harder to achieve.

That is because they assumed all season ticket holders were at each league game.

 

[SkyBlueSwiss]

Yeah good spot they are trying to cheat on Customs and Excise.

:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:

Silly boy.
VAT is calculated on the income earned as per the statutory accounts, not the crowd numbers quoted in the newspaper or given over the loudspeaker. Do try to interject a small modicum of reality into your poor attempts at sarcasm please.

 

[psgm1]

Two points: Are you sure that the Ricoh (or ACL, I'm not sure to which you refer) is running at a loss? Secondly, your last paragraph refers to local councils bending over for Sisu. Is that to enable Sisu to shaft them?

The business model for sisu never involved buying any stadium! Any businessman will tell you that tying up capital in business rerstricts the business. This was why sisu were happy to pay rent for so long. Indeed had it not been for the FFP rules being brouhgt in, no doubt sisu would never have brought up the rent issue at all. They aren't mad - ruthless not mad.

Just think how many players could be bought with the price of a stadium! But even taking that out of the equation, the "it's no-brainer" is way off the mark.

New stadia builds have a habit of doubling in price! So the hypothetical £30 million build soon becomes £60M - THEN you are looking at a stadium around £10million cheaper, and 10-15k smaller capacity. It's all very well saying if they get promotion they can expand, but then you are looking at spending another 15-20 million to build the stadium up to the spec of the ricoh!

So if anything it is a no-brainer they should stay at the ricoh!

These FFP rules benefit those teams who already own the stadia, which is why city will be at a disadvantage in the short term.

FFP has made sisu's original business model defunct, but because they have earned so much bad blood between them and the fans, they are unable to do what is essential under ffp.

The administrator clearly hasn't taken into account all the variables on this one. Ultimately the resolution will involve some kind of buyout. Sisu just want to get the most out of it they can before they leave.

The FL of course can make things a lot smoother by rejecting sisu. But I doubt they will

sisu out

 

[Grendel]

Silly boy.
VAT is calculated on the income earned as per the statutory accounts, not the crowd numbers quoted in the newspaper or given over the loudspeaker. Do try to interject a small modicum of reality into your poor attempts at sarcasm please.

They are calculated off official attendances which is paid tickets and cash through turnstiles combined with season ticket holders'. If advanced ticket purchasers attend or not they are counted in the attendance. The notion the club fiddle crowd figures is ludicrous.

 

[Nonleagueherewecome]

They are calculated off official attendances which is paid tickets and cash through turnstiles combined with season ticket holders'. If advanced ticket purchasers attend or not they are counted in the attendance. The notion the club fiddle crowd figures is ludicrous.

I'm sure that in the good old days football attendances used to actually number the people who were in the ground, rather than the tickets that were sold. The definition of the word implies that this is exactly what it should be! Of course it suits SISU to announce the tickets sold as the attendance figure, as it is inevitably higher. Come on, even SISU's second biggest fan must be capable of seeing this for the not-so-subtle figures massaging that it is?

 

[NorthernWisdom]

Every club I know of counts attendance on how many tickets sold rather than who turns up, no conspiracy I can see there.