The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (57 Viewers)

[Sick Boy]

He was quoted as saying "a result of 52-48 would be unfinished business" hardy a call for a second referendum is it?

It isn't in my book but if it is in your book then Scotland had a bigger result to stay in the U.K. (54%) In 2014 and wanted a second referendum already by now.

That's why I accept Marts point on referendum on big questions being so decisive but I celebrate us getting these decisions to make for our country. 34million voting should be celebrated as a success. Indeed it is.

What else is it then? Remaining silent and getting fully behind remaining in EU? Why is it that it would be fine for Leave voters to have continued the fight, yet we are expected to fall into line and keep quiet?

 

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[Kingokings204]

What else is it then? Remaining silent and getting fully behind remaining in EU? Why is it that it would be fine for Leave voters to have continued the fight, yet we are expected to fall into line and keep quiet?

It's not about that. People were never going to be happy either way again agreeing with marts point on big referenda but calls for a second referendum from certain areas is just anti democratic. Fine if we want to rejoin in ten-twenty years and decide that then great but not the year after before we've already left just because some people didn't like the result. It's pathetic.

Me personally had it been the predicted remain result would not of thought about it that much at all as nothing would of changed. I certainly wouldn't of been calling for a second referendum and whilst i would still have my woes with the EU then that would of been no different to the previous 10 years where I think it's started to change into something it shouldn't. It's getting too big and powerful IMO and as these negotiations are proving they are more interested in preserving the project and gravy train at all costs rather than citizens and what's best for their jobs and their wealth.

 

[Sick Boy]

It's not about that. People were never going to be happy either way again agreeing with marts point on big referenda but calls for a second referendum from certain areas is just anti democratic. Fine if we want to rejoin in ten-twenty years and decide that then great but not the year after before we've already left just because some people didn't like the result. It's pathetic.

Me personally had it been the predicted remain result would not of thought about it that much at all as nothing would of changed. I certainly wouldn't of been calling for a second referendum and whilst i would still have my woes with the EU then that would of been no different to the previous 10 years where I think it's started to change into something it shouldn't. It's getting too big and powerful IMO and as these negotiations are proving they are more interested in preserving the project and gravy train at all costs rather than citizens and what's best for their jobs and their wealth.

The EU was always going to protect itself as it is entitled to do so. What hasn't happened is that it has rolled over as some in the media predicted. While I am totally against it, it wouldn't be so bad if we had competent people in charge of the UK to negotiate on the country's behalf. To have the likes of Davis and Fox going into talks still thinking they could negotiate deals with individual countries is unforgivable.

 

[skybluetony176]

It's not about that. People were never going to be happy either way again agreeing with marts point on big referenda but calls for a second referendum from certain areas is just anti democratic. Fine if we want to rejoin in ten-twenty years and decide that then great but not the year after before we've already left just because some people didn't like the result. It's pathetic.

Me personally had it been the predicted remain result would not of thought about it that much at all as nothing would of changed. I certainly wouldn't of been calling for a second referendum and whilst i would still have my woes with the EU then that would of been no different to the previous 10 years where I think it's started to change into something it shouldn't. It's getting too big and powerful IMO and as these negotiations are proving they are more interested in preserving the project and gravy train at all costs rather than citizens and what's best for their jobs and their wealth.

The way the negotiations are going do you think we’ll have to wait 20 years?

 

[Grendel]

The EU was always going to protect itself as it is entitled to do so. What hasn't happened is that it has rolled over as some in the media predicted. While I am totally against it, it wouldn't be so bad if we had competent people in charge of the UK to negotiate on the country's behalf. To have the likes of Davis and Fox going into talks still thinking they could negotiate deals with individual countries is unforgivable.

Do you think the Eu have competent people?

 

[Kingokings204]

The way the negotiations are going do you think we’ll have to wait 20 years?

I don't think we will ever rejoin. My opinion.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

What a strange mind set you have. Why would anyone want to be seen as in disarray

It creates the wrong impression & presents you the with a weapon called the element of surprise

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[skybluetony176]

I don't think we will ever rejoin. My opinion.

You may well be right. But I wouldn’t be surprised if after 5 years there was an emergence of strong political will amongst sections of all parties to rejoin. I could also see a resurgence in Lib Dem voter numbers because of their continued stance on it. I can also foresee a decade or so of minority governments propped up by minority parties or coalition parties if for no other reason than the country is so polarised politically. There’s every chance while the country is so polarised that the Lib Dem’s may find themselves in government in some way in the future and that could be enough to trigger a rejoin referendum. Not saying any of that is nailed on just wouldn’t be surprised if it happened. If it doesn’t happen in the first 5-10 years following our actual brexit it never will IMO. Hence my do you think it will take 20 years comment.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

Yes of course they do... May wants to be seen as ineffective, Johnson wants to be seen as a buffoon and habitual liar, Gove wants to be seen as slimy and dishonest and the pro Brexit gutter press wants to make the government look like a group of squabbling public schoolboys... yes obviously a remain conspiracy...;-)

Errr...I was more thinking a Brexit strategy for negotiations at the sharp end when deadlines approach. Its definitely not a remain conspiracy...we ARE leaving Mart

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[martcov]

He was quoted as saying "a result of 52-48 would be unfinished business" hardy a call for a second referendum is it?

It isn't in my book but if it is in your book then Scotland had a bigger result to stay in the U.K. (54%) In 2014 and wanted a second referendum already by now.

That's why I accept Marts point on referendum on big questions being so decisive but I celebrate us getting these decisions to make for our country. 34million voting should be celebrated as a success. Indeed it is.

What is „unfinished business“? Ok, I will accept the result and you will never hear from me again, or I will continue fighting until the business of getting the UK out has dbeen finished? To achieve that he would need a second referendum. I think virtually everyone apart from yourself understood it as the latter.

 

[martcov]

Errr...I was more thinking a Brexit strategy for negotiations at the sharp end when deadlines approach. Its definitely not a remain conspiracy...we ARE leaving Mart

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Both sides are spinning it out to the last minute. Then there will be talks through the night until one side is so tired they just sign and go to bed.

 

[martcov]

Considering he has just one child under the age of 16 I would change your grammar from "kids" to kid as that would be more accurate thus making your post a bit strange on how he was "seen" when if he did do it for his one child then surely he would of done it via the internet?

He was actually seen - I think at the German embassy- and when it was reported he said he wasn’t applying for himself.

 

[Sick Boy]

Do you think the Eu have competent people?

Yes, a lot more so than the UK.

 

[martcov]

Do you think the Eu have competent people?

That really is easy Grendel. Yes they do. No we don’t. Our negotiator is apparently lazy and thick as mince. The worst the Sun could think of for Barnier was that he is a Dandy. When you think that Farage said that the Belgian from the Parliament had the appearance of a lower grade bank clerk, then it seems the EU cannot win on appearance- either they are a Dandy or a lower grade bank clerk. Who knows how the EU people would describe the appearance of our foreign minister...

 

[Ashdown]

That really is easy Grendel. Yes they do. No we don’t. Our negotiator is apparently lazy and thick as mince. The worst the Sun could think of for Barnier was that he is a Dandy. When you think that Farage said that the Belgian from the Parliament had the appearance of a lower grade bank clerk, then it seems the EU cannot win on appearance- either they are a Dandy or a lower grade bank clerk. Who knows how the EU people would describe the appearance of our foreign minister...

Does he wear one of those new watches 'The fat git' sorry 'Fitbit '. He really does need some clothes that fit too. Poor Boris !

 

[martcov]

It creates the wrong impression & presents you the with a weapon called the element of surprise

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Yes, well I wouldn’t be surprised if the cabinet got nominated for the some Oscar‘s.... lead role Boris Johnson with Michael Gove as best supporting actor for example. Don’t know about May, perhaps for comedy. Her speech was hilarious.

But seriously, they certainly have me fooled. Totally disorganised, infighting, various conflicting strategies and no idea how to address the most important points. We will see if the secret weapon materialises....

 

[Captain Dart]

Read some of the posts on here. No matter what happens, it is Juncker‘s fault. Do you believe that the EU is ruled by Juncker and/ or Merkel? Do you really think that the EU is the fourth Reich or EUSSR, that Barnier is a dandy ( The Sun ) and Juncker is merely a drunkard ( The Sun )? We have been members for 40 years and have had a good economy for most of that time. Do you think Murdoch‘s newspapers have an agenda which supports British workers or big business? Or can you not see that he has a billionaire‘s agenda?

LOL. Read some of the posts on here. No matter what ills happen, it is because of Brexit.

 

[Astute]

There is no proportional representation in the UK, but there is in the EU. What’s your point? As regards Merkel she got by far the largest vote of 7 parties in parliament. May got a higher % because there are less parties to share the vote and because of not having proportional representation, many votes for her would otherwise have been wasted.

Something else we have been through before.I see.

How many parties are there in Germany?

In Scotland they have a national party.

In Wales they have a national party.

Then you have Ireland. Even more nationalistic.

Then how many other parties are there in the UK? About the same in Germany. Listed them all last time. Then you went quiet.

 

[Kingokings204]

He was actually seen - I think at the German embassy- and when it was reported he said he wasn’t applying for himself.

Oh really? Have to see that to believe that. Sorry but if that did happen it would of been main page news everywhere to make an idiot out of him. The fact it wasn't I strongly have my reservations.

 

[martcov]

LOL. Read some of the posts on here. No matter what ills happen, it is because of Brexit.

No. That is not the case is it? The complaints about inept government apply to the period up to now. Brexit is in it’s early days.

 

[martcov]

Something else we have been through before.I see.

How many parties are there in Germany?

In Scotland they have a national party.

In Wales they have a national party.

Then you have Ireland. Even more nationalistic.

Then how many other parties are there in the UK? About the same in Germany. Listed them all last time. Then you went quiet.

Not all he parties you list are UK national and therefore do not effect May‘s vote in the majority of constituencies. There are 3 main parties in the UK with 600000 tagging on to UKIP. In Germany there are 6 nationwide parties 1 powerful Bavarian party and a group of UKIP or Nazi parties on the fringe which together polled under 5 %.

 

[Ashdown]

Its not all doom and gloom here though, much to the chagrin of the Pro EU crowd. Just in the last couple of days, figures have been released to show that retail sales have increased and profitability is up in the shops. More people are holidaying at home in the UK and our own resorts are receiving a boost. Also tourist numbers are at record levels together with the record amounts that they are spending here. The weak pound is a pain for my business and money exchange but for many it's bringing in a lot more foreign money and makes British goods more attractive abroad for export.

 

[Astute]

Voted yes for the common market in the first referendum, wasn’t allowed to vote in the second and voting with my feet now. Have my German language and my German politics and culture tests booked for December. Both necessary in order to get German / EU citizenship. What is good for Farage‘s children is good for me. FYI e.g. 64% of people in Northern Ireland already have EU citizenship via the ROI. It seems to be in demand.

Oh dear. You bring up Farage for no reason again.

Farage hardly got any votes here. But you don't have many meaningful points. So you continually bring him up. 1 in 8 Germans voted for Fascism/Racism. Yet you try and claim it means nothing. Get real.

 

[Kingokings204]

What is „unfinished business“? Ok, I will accept the result and you will never hear from me again, or I will continue fighting until the business of getting the UK out has dbeen finished? To achieve that he would need a second referendum. I think virtually everyone apart from yourself understood it as the latter.

Farage raises second referendum prospect

Catorgorically states he didnt want a second referendum when pushed by his comments. Undeniable.

"I'm not putting it on the agenda. I don't want a second referendum, I want to win this one"

So no he didn't want a second referendum. Although by the sound of it, it seems he should of done as leave voters shouldn't of gone away quietly if remain had won. Which is it?

 

[Sky-bluer1]

It does make me wonder what we are all going to talk/ debate about once brexit is out of the way. Football anyone.

 

[Kingokings204]

You may well be right. But I wouldn’t be surprised if after 5 years there was an emergence of strong political will amongst sections of all parties to rejoin. I could also see a resurgence in Lib Dem voter numbers because of their continued stance on it. I can also foresee a decade or so of minority governments propped up by minority parties or coalition parties if for no other reason than the country is so polarised politically. There’s every chance while the country is so polarised that the Lib Dem’s may find themselves in government in some way in the future and that could be enough to trigger a rejoin referendum. Not saying any of that is nailed on just wouldn’t be surprised if it happened. If it doesn’t happen in the first 5-10 years following our actual brexit it never will IMO. Hence my do you think it will take 20 years comment.

We aren't rejoining and never will imo. Junckers speech on an eu army and further integrating EU speech the other week put an end to that.

If you want an United States of Europe that's fine like Mart but the majority in this country don't after we were told by the remain camp it's for the status quo. Wrong. It was was further integration and become United States of Europe. One border one currency one army. One everything.

 

[Astute]

It's how democracy works.

Sadly the polarisation is going to affect the country for decades, IMO.

Yes IYO.

Open borders to the 500m people in the EU and expanding would have kept our population exploding when we can't house those already here. Not my opinion. It is the truth.

 

[Astute]

he was the main one. He quite clearly thought Leave would lose and was already setting his stall out for a 2nd referendum.

Name anyone who likes or listens to Farage unless it is remoaners using him to try and make a point.

 

[Astute]

That doesn’t explain the disastrous decision to call an early election does it. Who would deliberately set out to look a complete fuck up expecting to increase a majority. The election campaign let the cat out of the bag. This government is a complete fuck up, probably the worse government in living memory. Certainly mine. It’s no act.

Are you 10 years old?

 

[Ashdown]

Sleep in the Park

This is the sort of issue that can only be exacerbated with more and more people.

 

[Kingokings204]

Name anyone who likes or listens to Farage unless it is remoaners using him to try and make a point.

I don't like the guy. He is self serving as the rest of politicians I just don't like it when people quotes things that aren't true about anyone in particular farage as he is the scapegoat for the leave vote as he is the easy target and he is very influential. Why does no one blast Owen Paterson or priti Patel who backed leave? Because no one gives a toss.

People go for the man and not the ball. Let's go for farage because he is racist and let's go for Boris as he is a clown. They aren't. Actually they influenced millions of people to vote their way and very influential to their audience.

 

[Astute]

If Juncker has done anything illegal then he should be punished. These deals should be illegal. There should be a coordinated fiscal system for companies in the EU. It only benefits big business if countries under bid each other with corporation tax. Which is why the UK shouldn’t become a tax haven at the expense of infrastructure and housing projects.

So why is he still in charge of the EU?

They have known for many years what he has done. They know it is wrong.

It is just like FIFA. Keep someone in charge who is corrupt and he is safe. Then sweep it under the table.

 

[Astute]

Sleep in the Park

This is the sort of issue that can only be exacerbated with more and more people.

Why don't you join the deluded and say that millions of people coming here to live doesn't make any difference to the homeless numbers?

 

[martcov]

Oh dear. You bring up Farage for no reason again.

Farage hardly got any votes here. But you don't have many meaningful points. So you continually bring him up. 1 in 8 Germans voted for Fascism/Racism. Yet you try and claim it means nothing. Get real.

UKIP got millions of votes, but only 1 seat because the UK is so democratic. I in 8 Germans voted for a right wing party that includes fascists. It means that 1 in 8 Germans voted for a party which includes fascist, but it means little as 7 in 8 Germans didn't. It's democracy... get over it. Oh, and try pushing for democracy in the UK whilst you're on the subject. Replace the Lords with an elected senate, have the Monarch put up for a pro or anti monarchy vote every 10 years, introduce proportional representation so that we can see what the people really want by making all votes count, and give sovereignity back to parliament when wanting to make major decsisions. It may make the UK more inclusive and less polarised.

 

[Ashdown]

UKIP got millions of votes, but only 1 seat because the UK is so democratic. I in 8 Germans voted for a right wing party that includes fascists. It means that 1 in 8 Germans voted for a party which includes fascist, but it means little as 7 in 8 Germans didn't. It's democracy... get over it. Oh, and try pushing for democracy in the UK whilst you're on the subject. Replace the Lords with an elected senate, have the Monarch put up for a pro or anti monarchy vote every 10 years, introduce proportional representation so that we can see what the people really want by making all votes count, and give sovereignity back to parliament when wanting to make major decsisions. It may make the UK more inclusive and less polarised.

The UK is totally inclusive !