Thoughts on the state of British society? (1 Viewer)

Due to the response from earlier research, I've just started phase 2 of a university research project looking at whether Britain is regressing to a less civil state with less social constraint and more casual aggression. The questionnaire is live at http://www.topfan.co.uk and as you’ll see, the questions are very current. One of them focuses on the current arguments surrounding the welfare system, for example. It should only take you a couple of minutes and thanks in advance.
 

Tad

Member
Done.

The questions about the benefit system is something I really feel strongly about. So many people in this country are getting away with claiming them falsely and it's really holding our country back. The system needs a complete overhaul badly.
 

WillieStanley

New Member
Done.

The questions about the benefit system is something I really feel strongly about. So many people in this country are getting away with claiming them falsely and it's really holding our country back. The system needs a complete overhaul badly.

It's getting an over haul at the moment. To the detriment of those who need it most. The things that have been proposed and the propositions that have already gone through are almost Victorian.

"Keep the dependent dependent" seems to be the ethos and it is quite literally killing people... real people.

I firmly believe that it is the responsibility of the wall of mainstream society to provide a hand up and break the barriers of social exclusion. All the Tories are doing at the moment are punishing those who barely had a chance in the first place.

There will always be those who "play the system" but there will also be a hell of a lot more who genuinely need the welfare state and haven't got the lifeskills that you and I take for granted.
 

Tad

Member
Oh, if you want to see what's really holding this country back, I suggest you follow these links. The figures dwarf that of the welfare state.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2012/jul/21/offshore-wealth-global-economy-tax-havens?intcmp=239

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2012/jul/21/global-elite-tax-offshore-economy?intcmp=239


That will never change sadly. The people in power are just as dodgy. Bankers, politicians etc..Guy Fawkes had the right idea haha. I don't agree with you about the people on benefits though. You don't need to be the smartest to clean a street be a bin man etc. A lot of people who are on benefits have never even worked which isn't even what the system is for.

Some of them aren't even from this country and have walked in with nothing and got handed benefits. Why were they even allowed in if they had no-where to go. It's not acceptable. If you want something, you earn it! Like the rest of us have to.
 
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WillieStanley

New Member
Whilst I see where you are coming from, there are factors that you may not be aware of.

Whilst anyone might be able to do a job, most of the people you are referring to have never been giving the opportunity to learn the basic disciplines it takes to get a job and then hold one down. Disciplines like making sure you're on time or even turn up, how to create a winning CV, how to prepare for a job interview. A lot don't have the self belief that we have that they belong to mainstream society. Some don't see that they have a purpose, haven't had the benefits of positive relationships in their lives, suffered some sort of trauma, undiagnosed mental health issue.

The way things are going, this is only going to get worse, too, as not only are the Government making it harder to claim benefits, they are reducing the number of services available to deliver the learning of those basic disciplines and lifeskills.

To the rest of us, it may look like they just have a bad, lazy attitude towards life, and yes it can be frustrating when you're on your way to work and you walk past a bloke with a can in his hand, but that bloke has probably never had the benefit of experiencing any kind of achievement in his life. I believe it's our responsibility to pass on our knowledge and understanding of what it means to be in mainstream society.

There's a thread on The Dark Knight Rises on here and I want to share with you a brilliant quote from Batman Begins.

"What Chance Does Gotham Have When Good People Do Nothing"

Well. What chance does our society have when we do nothing for the most disadvantaged and deprived people around us.
 
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Tad

Member
Whilst I see where you are coming from, there are factors that you may not be aware of.

Whilst anyone might be able to do a job, most of the people you are referring to have never been giving the opportunity to learn the basic disciplines it takes to get a job and then hold one down. Disciplines like making sure you're on time or even turn up, how to create a winning CV, how to prepare for a job interview. A lot don't have the self belief that we have that they belong to mainstream society. Some don't see that they have a purpose, haven't had the benefits of positive relationships in their lives, suffered some sort of trauma, undiagnosed mental health issue.

The way things are going, this is only going to get worse, too, as not only are the Government making it harder to claim benefits, they are reducing the number of services available to deliver the learning of those basic disciplines and lifeskills.

To the rest of us, it may look like they just have a bad, lazy attitude towards life, and yes it can be frustrating when you're on your way to work and you walk past a bloke with a can in his hand, but that bloke has probably never had the benefit of experiencing any kind of achievement in his life. I believe it's our responsibility to pass on our knowledge and understanding of what it means to be in mainstream society.

There's a thread on The Dark Knight Rises on here and I want to share with you a brilliant quote from Batman Begins.

"What Chance Does Gotham Have When Good People Do Nothing"

Well. What chance does our society have when we do nothing for the most disadvantaged and deprived people around us.

That quote doesn't work tho. We do give them something. Money and lots of it. And what do they do? Waste it.
 

WillieStanley

New Member
We should be giving a hand up and not a hand out.

Give an alcoholic or a drug addict a tenner without any of the other support, what do you think is going to happen? If you research Maslow you will learn a lot!
 

dutchman

Well-Known Member
The riots had nothing to do with "benefits culture", nor were they caused by cuts in public spending. Both sides of the political divide are using the supposed cause of the riots to further their own particular agenda.

All that happened was a minority of persistent troublemakers hijacked a genuine grievance which originated in one part of London and finding that the authorities were virtually powerless to stop them quickly took advantage of the situation.

It has happened in virtually every decade. In 1920 there was a riot in Broadgate which lasted four days and nights! Rioters blamed a lack of job opportunities, police blamed "criminal elements". Nothing much changes.
 

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
We should be giving a hand up and not a hand out.

Give an alcoholic or a drug addict a tenner without any of the other support, what do you think is going to happen? If you research Maslow you will learn a lot!

The assumption from Dave and his cronies is that if you're unemployed, it must be because you're a lazy benefit claiming scrounger. If you have an alcohol, drugs, gambling, whatever addiction, you're a lost cause. The man ruthlessly takes tens of thousands of public jobs, cuts public services, and is surprised when it has a negative impact. All the while, the biggest scroungers of the lot in Buckingham Palace get eternal praise for doing sweet sod all.
 

WillieStanley

New Member
The assumption from Dave and his cronies is that if you're unemployed, it must be because you're a lazy benefit claiming scrounger. If you have an alcohol, drugs, gambling, whatever addiction, you're a lost cause. The man ruthlessly takes tens of thousands of public jobs, cuts public services, and is surprised when it has a negative impact. All the while, the biggest scroungers of the lot in Buckingham Palace get eternal praise for doing sweet sod all.

Actually, I don't think he holds those views at all. I think its much darker. He views them as the most vulnerable in society. The least likely to make a noise and the easiest to demonise.

Presenting stats such as "99% of heroin users are on benefits" what does that lead people to think?

They're knowingly attacking the section of our society with the least means of defending themselves.

Bog Society.
 

Marty

Well-Known Member
We'll be back in the stone age before long, we live in a nation where being thick is looked upon well, where swearing & shouting in the middle of the street is now accepted. Just been upto the hospital today and the amount of 'patients' sitting in wheelchairs chain smoking outside is unbelievable, then there's the obligatory chav trying to look menacing but just coming across as a complete an utter tool, then all the parents setting lovely examples for their children by swearing at them.

Then on the other end of the scale, Children who can't be children anymore, not allowed to climb trees, ride bikes etc. in case they fall and get a little scrape. Kids need to hurt themselves, pick up bugs and viruses so they can learn when to sense danager and take appropriate action.

Until we get to a stage where people understand they need to work hard to better themselves, these issues will never change (a large proportion of society do understand this).
 

Diehard Si

New Member
We'll be back in the stone age before long, we live in a nation where being thick is looked upon well, where swearing & shouting in the middle of the street is now accepted. Just been upto the hospital today and the amount of 'patients' sitting in wheelchairs chain smoking outside is unbelievable, then there's the obligatory chav trying to look menacing but just coming across as a complete an utter tool, then all the parents setting lovely examples for their children by swearing at them.

Then on the other end of the scale, Children who can't be children anymore, not allowed to climb trees, ride bikes etc. in case they fall and get a little scrape. Kids need to hurt themselves, pick up bugs and viruses so they can learn when to sense danager and take appropriate action.

Until we get to a stage where people understand they need to work hard to better themselves, these issues will never change (a large proportion of society do understand this).
I do agree with everything you say.

While people like 'that' have always existed they used to be a minority... Now it seems they are becoming more and more the norm.
 

Otis

Well-Known Member
We'll be back in the stone age before long, we live in a nation where being thick is looked upon well, where swearing & shouting in the middle of the street is now accepted. Just been upto the hospital today and the amount of 'patients' sitting in wheelchairs chain smoking outside is unbelievable, then there's the obligatory chav trying to look menacing but just coming across as a complete an utter tool, then all the parents setting lovely examples for their children by swearing at them.

Then on the other end of the scale, Children who can't be children anymore, not allowed to climb trees, ride bikes etc. in case they fall and get a little scrape. Kids need to hurt themselves, pick up bugs and viruses so they can learn when to sense danager and take appropriate action.

Until we get to a stage where people understand they need to work hard to better themselves, these issues will never change (a large proportion of society do understand this).


Kids do climb trees and ride bikes and do all the things kids have always done. I see it everyday. My daughter climbs trees and does all the slightly 'dodgy' things I did as a kid. Nowt changed there.

It is only institutions where things have changed and that is all because schools and colleges etc. don't want to get their arses sued if something goes wrong.

If my kid fell off some aperatus at school I wouldn't be looking to sue anyone unless the aperatus was faulty.
 

Macca

Well-Known Member
I agree with an earlier post. Standards in society have massively dropped.Whenever I go somewhere with thousands of people I am amazed by the lack of self respect in appearance, general social skills, manners, ability to obey no smoking signs and other requests, the language used, inability to control kids and general lack of awareness how own behaviour affects others. No amount of government propping up people will solve that
 

Otis

Well-Known Member
I agree with an earlier post. Standards in society have massively dropped.Whenever I go somewhere with thousands of people I am amazed by the lack of self respect in appearance, general social skills, manners, ability to obey no smoking signs and other requests, the language used, inability to control kids and general lack of awareness how own behaviour affects others. No amount of government propping up people will solve that


Can't work it out. Even with bad parenting for some stuff. A lot of little things bother me to be honest, cos when you observe it you just know it is just the tip of an iceberg.

Take litter for instance. Schools drum into kids not to drop litter and my little un is 8 and she would never do it, nor would any of her class. You speak to them and they all know not to drop litter.

So at what point in time does it become okay to drop litter? Seems that kids reach an age of 11 or 12 and then just suddenly start dropping litter.

I know there is bad parenting, but when schools drum into kids about not dropping litter and it seems entrenched into the kids mindset, at what point does all that go out the window?



The amount of people I see just park in disabled spaces without a care in the world and parking at bus stops and in front of school gates.

Pretty much every week our school newsletter reminds people and urges them not to block drives and gateways and in front of school gates and every week they have to list registration plates of cars that have broken that rule.

People just throw cigarette butts in the street, swear quite openly in front of children and think its fine not to say please and thank you and show some manners.

As I say, these are little things, but if you don't have respect over these little things doesn't that then point to the fact that you probably aren't going to have respect for much else either?

Don't like to get too political, but I saw a sea change under Thatcher where a society of selfishness, greed and looking after number 1 mentality was bred.

There is too much every man for himself and so much less focus on society and community despite various council and government schemes to try and promote such.

So desperate to get the right schooling for my daughter and last year we moved house so we could be in the Coundon Court catchment area, so as to avoid the prospect of Barr's Hill and President Kennedy.

Bit of a socialist myself, but can fully understand why parents try and go down the private school route for their children.

Our children are the next generation and that is where our focus needs to lie.

We now have at least 1 or 2 lost generations unfortunately.

So glad I was brought up so well by my parents. Respect, consideration, politeness, care for others thoughts and feelings and to treat everyone as an individual and upon their own individual merits.

I don't care if someone is black, white, green, Muslim, Sikh or from the planet Mars. I try and treat each and every one as an individual.
 
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Can't work it out. Even with bad parenting for some stuff. A lot of little things bother me to be honest, cos when you observe it you just know it is just the tip of an iceberg.

Take litter for instance. Schools drum into kids not to drop litter and my little un is 8 and she would never do it, nor would any of her class. You speak to them and they all know not to drop litter.

So at what point in time does it become okay to drop litter? Seems that kids reach an age of 11 or 12 and then just suddenly start dropping litter.

I know there is bad parenting, but when schools drum into kids about not dropping litter and it seems entrenched into the kids mindset, at what point does all that go out the window?



The amount of people I see just park in disabled spaces without a care in the world and parking at bus stops and in front of school gates.

Pretty much every week our school newsletter reminds people and urges them not to block drives and gateways and in front of school gates and every week they have to list registration plates of cars that have broken that rule.

People just throw cigarette butts in the street, swear quite openly in front of children and think its fine not to say please and thank you and show some manners.

As I say, these are little things, but if you don't have respect over these little things doesn't that then point to the fact that you probably aren't going to have respect for much else either?

Don't like to get too political, but I saw a sea change under Thatcher where a society of selfishness, greed and looking after number 1 mentality was bred.

There is too much every man for himself and so much less focus on society and community despite various council and government schemes to try and promote such.

So desperate to get the right schooling for my daughter and last year we moved house so we could be in the Coundon Court catchment area, so as to avoid the prospect of Barr's Hill and President Kennedy.

Bit of a socialist myself, but can fully understand why parents try and go down the private school route for their children.

Our children are the next generation and that is where our focus needs to lie.

We now have at least 1 or 2 lost generations unfortunately.

So glad I was brought up so well by my parents. Respect, consideration, politeness, care for others thoughts and feelings and to treat everyone as an individual and upon their own individual merits.

I don't care if someone is black, white, green, Muslim, Sikh or from the planet Mars. I try and treat each and every one as an individual.

Biggest turnoff for me is the constant barrage of foul and disgusting language in the streets, places of entertainment, the media and yes even my beloved SBT has its fair share despite my protestations and call for more moderator vigilance.

Some young (and older) people appear completely unable to string together a couple of words in a sentence without the F and C word continuing to be uttered.

Just an old gits observation but it p....s me off big time.

PUSB
 

Otis

Well-Known Member
Saw a lad walking into town yesterday and he was wearing a t-shirt.

The t-shirt was just full of swear words, including c..t, fook, wanker and every name under the sun. the printing on the tshirt was quite large too.

20 or 30 years ago he would have been arrested, now people just seem to turn a blind eye.

when you have kids though how do you explain to them when they start trying to read the tshirt?
 

WillieStanley

New Member
Was that the Blink 182 t-shirt. If it is, that's the lyrics to one of their songs. One and a half minutes of "Shit piss fuck c**t cock sucker mother fucker tits fart turd and twat"

They printed it on a t-shirt. When I saw it I turned to my wife and said "I wish there was a social circumstance in which I could wear that". Sadly, there isn't!
 

Otis

Well-Known Member
Was that the Blink 182 t-shirt. If it is, that's the lyrics to one of their songs. One and a half minutes of "Shit piss fuck c**t cock sucker mother fucker tits fart turd and twat"

They printed it on a t-shirt. When I saw it I turned to my wife and said "I wish there was a social circumstance in which I could wear that". Sadly, there isn't!


That's the shirt.

No problem if that is the song and that's the lyrics and the song I am sure is aimed at an older audience. The song can be banned from the airways for its explicit lyrics and just enjoyed by the target audience to a degree.

A tshirt however is there on public display for all to see and I think the only place it would be acceptable to wear it would be at a gig or festival such as Glastonbury or suchlike.

Don't see how you can be wearing it round town centres where there are loads of kids and families etc.
 

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
Biggest turnoff for me is the constant barrage of foul and disgusting language in the streets, places of entertainment, the media and yes even my beloved SBT has its fair share despite my protestations and call for more moderator vigilance.

Some young (and older) people appear completely unable to string together a couple of words in a sentence without the F and C word continuing to be uttered.

Just an old gits observation but it p....s me off big time.

PUSB

'Some' being the key word-don't tar us all with the same brush.
 

Macca

Well-Known Member
There is no age limit on being a yob.

Basically rules, discipline etc became uncool probably starting in the 60 s and it's been downhill ever since. Humans need rules and structure. My grandparents and family didn t have a pot to piss in and certainly had their roguish element but they knew how to behave, act towards others and most of all they had shame unlike many people now
 

jimmyhillsfanclub

Well-Known Member
Jeez....you lot all sound like my dear old grandad.....


....Britain is the same as it ever was....

The only thing thats changed is you lot are getting old & adopting the same old views & moans of your parents & grand-parents....

....I've still got my "offensive" T-shirt & I'm 41.....An original "cool as fuck" Inspiral Carpets T-shirt from 1989....:cool:.
 
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Marty

Well-Known Member
Just take a walk into the city centre and you'll see everything that is wrong with this country.
 

jimmyhillsfanclub

Well-Known Member
Not much wrong with this country.....We are some of luckiest people on earth to live here......people need to get some perspective....

....are you a child soldier?
do you have to walk 10 miles to fetch rancid water that will kill you?
Have you & your family been blown up by allied forces in their pathetic "war on terror"?
Do your kids have to work 80 hours a week for a few pence just so some moaning twat in the UK can buy disposable fashion from Gap or Primark or Next?

No....but someone dropped a crisp packet or wore a t-shirt with swear words on it....boo hoo hoo.

Get a grip folks.

Brtain....its the same as it ever was......if you don't believe me...read some books.
 

Marty

Well-Known Member
Not much wrong with this country.....We are some of luckiest people on earth to live here......people need to get some perspective....

....are you a child soldier?
do you have to walk 10 miles to fetch rancid water that will kill you?
Have you & your family been blown up by allied forces in their pathetic "war on terror"?
Do your kids have to work 80 hours a week for a few pence just so some moaning twat in the UK can buy disposable fashion from Gap or Primark or Next?

No....but someone dropped a crisp packet or wore a t-shirt with swear words on it....boo hoo hoo.

Get a grip folks.

Brtain....its the same as it ever was......if you don't believe me...read some books.

It's a completely different world we live in, at the minute while we're all feeling the pinch, the dregs of society are still living as normal and in many cases leading better life's then 'workers', they are the easy target and rightly get a lot of stick. I work hard for my money and rightly earn a decent wage and have a decent standard of living, but why should I be out there grafting away to put money into someone else's hand?? I am more then happy to pay what I owe for the emergency services, roads to be kept, etc, but I resent those bone idle scum who offer next to nothing too society getting an easy ride.
 

Macca

Well-Known Member
Well I guess I should limit my ambitions to not being a child soldier or dead then :)

If you can't see that standard of behaviour have dropped you really must be blind. And yes, carpets, roses, Monday's and acid house veteran myself
 

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