Vote Them Out. Demo on Sat 10 May & campaign aimed at getting councillors to speak. (1 Viewer)

[ccfctommy]

Why can SISU not be trusted with the stadium?

What are they going to do with it?

Some people actually do think they will knock it down.

If SISU do not own or part own the Ricoh, we will never play there. Simple.

 

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[Nick]

So ignoring constant untruths from one side and trying to find untruths from the other side is a balanced view?

A balanced view is looking at the evidence and working out for yourself what has been going on. Not trying to make both sides as bad as each other without proof. We don't have any proof about what CCC have done wrong. Just allegations from SISU. And we know how much they can be trusted. What is wrong with finding out the truth before declaring someone guilty? I am not saying that CCC have acted perfectly all the way through this mess. But how much was caused by the SISU tactics? I hope we find out.

It isn't ignoring, it is just that SISU make their untruths blatant so they don't need to be found We know they moved us to Northampton, we don't need to post about it in every thread while trying to find out reasoning, past history etc.

Some don't feel the need to point the most obvious blatant thing out in every thread, most of the time things don't even need to be said as they are that obvious.

Some people are open to hearing new things about all sides, the evidence, the facts rather than dismissing them based on who they are aimed out or who said them.

Just because people don't post the same old shit about SISU in every thread whether it is to do with SISU or not, it doesn't mean they blame them any less does it?

 

[Samo]

So ignoring constant untruths from one side and trying to find untruths from the other side is a balanced view?

A balanced view is looking at the evidence and working out for yourself what has been going on. Not trying to make both sides as bad as each other without proof. We don't have any proof about what CCC have done wrong. Just allegations from SISU. And we know how much they can be trusted. What is wrong with finding out the truth before declaring someone guilty? I am not saying that CCC have acted perfectly all the way through this mess. But how much was caused by the SISU tactics? I hope we find out.

Only a fool would lay all the blame in one corner only. There is no short supply of fools.

 

[shmmeee]

Only a fool would lay all the blame in one corner only. There is no short supply of fools.

The thing is a fair few people (not saying you are one) make out it's 50/50 or more CCC than Sisu. Or at least that's the impression you get from the posting style and the comments made.

Yet anyone who questions that get the blanket statement you just made "You must be stupid if you don't blame CCC a bit", but that's a red herring, no-one is saying that, they're saying that the vast majority (like 75%+) lays with Sisu and the don't deserve defending at every turn.

I'd like to see a poll (I know right?) that gives a sliding scale for people to choose so we can see exactly how it does break down. But that's how I see it.

 

[Nick]

The thing is a fair few people (not saying you are one) make out it's 50/50 or more CCC than Sisu. Or at least that's the impression you get from the posting style and the comments made.

Yet anyone who questions that get the blanket statement you just made "You must be stupid if you don't blame CCC a bit", but that's a red herring, no-one is saying that, they're saying that the vast majority (like 75%+) lays with Sisu and the don't deserve defending at every turn.

I'd like to see a poll (I know right?) that gives a sliding scale for people to choose so we can see exactly how it does break down. But that's how I see it.

It only seems like the Anti SISU people (sorry to put into a group) who keep demanding for a percentage breakdown of blame though?

 

[Astute]

Only a fool would lay all the blame in one corner only. There is no short supply of fools.

So you quote what I said saying that only a fool would lay all the blame in one corner. Are you saying that my post laid all the blame in one corner?

 

[shmmeee]

It only seems like the Anti SISU people (sorry to put into a group) who keep demanding for a percentage breakdown of blame though?

It's just illustrative.

And I thought you said we were all anti-Sisu?

 

[Samo]

The thing is a fair few people (not saying you are one) make out it's 50/50 or more CCC than Sisu. Or at least that's the impression you get from the posting style and the comments made.

Yet anyone who questions that get the blanket statement you just made "You must be stupid if you don't blame CCC a bit", but that's a red herring, no-one is saying that, they're saying that the vast majority (like 75%+) lays with Sisu and the don't deserve defending at every turn.

I'd like to see a poll (I know right?) that gives a sliding scale for people to choose so we can see exactly how it does break down. But that's how I see it.

Its strange how perceptions differ. It seems to me that the majority apportion no blame at all to CCC/ACL, some even cheer them on. If those opposing that view seem to be vociferous, it could be because they have to shout a little louder to be heard over the nonsensical din!

 

[Astute]

It only seems like the Anti SISU people (sorry to put into a group) who keep demanding for a percentage breakdown of blame though?

It could be said that the Pro SISU people (sorry to put into a group) constantly try and blame others without proof. Yet as we all know SISU love litigation and would more than likely had them in court if anything had been done. All they have so far is the JR about using state funds wrongly. And we don't have a clue what is going on with it. Is there even a case to answer? Is the funding wrong?

 

[Nick]

Its strange how perceptions differ. It seems to me that the majority apportion no blame at all to CCC/ACL, some even cheer them on. If those opposing that view seem to be vociferous, it could be because they have to shout a little louder to be heard over the nonsensical did!

Exactly.... The way people go on about their love and how proud they are of their local council is a bit random.

 

[Samo]

So you quote what I said saying that only a fool would lay all the blame in one corner. Are you saying that my post laid all the blame in one corner?

Do you?

 

[Nick]

It could be said that the Pro SISU people (sorry to put into a group) constantly try and blame others without proof. Yet as we all know SISU love litigation and would more than likely had them in court if anything had been done. All they have so far is the JR about using state funds wrongly. And we don't have a clue what is going on with it. Is there even a case to answer? Is the funding wrong?

That is the thing, nobody is pro SISU are they? Plenty of Pro Council / ACL but nobody actively pro SISU? Happy to be shown posts where people actually pro SISU or trying to blame others randomly for no reason. (apart from the obvious wind up ones)

People go on about SISU taking people to court, ACL / The Higgs haven't been innocent in taking people to court / threatening court have they?

 

[lordsummerisle]

The "Can't commernt til after the JR" get out of jail free card works a treat though, been trying it myself.

Call from the girlfriend, "Are you in the pub?"

Me: "Sorry, I can't answer that until after the JR and all the evidence has been presented"

G/F: "Look, are in the bloody pub or not? Was about to put the tea on"

Me: "Sorry, I can't answer that until after the JR and all the evidence has been presented"

G/F: "Bollocks to you then, can get your own tea"

G/F: "Are you having an affair?"

Me: ""Sorry, I can't answer that until after the JR and all the evidence has been presented".

Can be used in any tricky situations that present themselves.

 

[Hobo]

Not sure what the council have done wrong. They have reduced rent and also made offers to keep negotiations going.
SISU have had the door open for them to make offers and never have. I don't think they have the money to buy it or buil a new stadium.

If new evidence comes out in J R I might change my mind. But in the meantime SISU's whole stewardship of the club has been shambolic.

 

[Astute]

Do you?

Try reading my post with an unbiased view. You will see I don't, but I do apportion more blame the way of SISU.

 

[shmmeee]

Its strange how perceptions differ. It seems to me that the majority apportion no blame at all to CCC/ACL, some even cheer them on. If those opposing that view seem to be vociferous, it could be because they have to shout a little louder to be heard over the nonsensical din!

I think some can forgive or even understand misdemeanours on the CCC side more than the Sisu side. And to be honest, I'm a Coventry voter and taxpayer, I have more vested in them than in a London hedge fund, that's just the reality of it. But more to the point I think most see it as a football issue and therefore the people who make the decisions in the football club have to be the ones to be seen acting in the fans interests. The move to Sixfields did a lot to break the emotional connection between the corporate entity CCFC and the CCFC fan IMO. It gave literal form to the feeling the club was being taken from them, and it's natural to focus aggression on those doing the taking.

For me, Sisu didn't play fair once they moved the club. Until that's put right I will focus on them 100% no matter what % I feel they are to blame for the entire situation, because they are the ones that have stepped over the line. If there was a Geneva Convention on running clubs, this would be in it under cruel and unusual punishment of non-combatants.

 

[Samo]

The "Can't commernt til after the JR" get out of jail free card works a treat though, been trying it myself.

Call from the girlfriend, "Are you in the pub?"

Me: "Sorry, I can't answer that until after the JR and all the evidence has been presented"

G/F: "Look, are in the bloody pub or not? Was about to put the tea on"

Me: "Sorry, I can't answer that until after the JR and all the evidence has been presented"

G/F: "Bollocks to you then, can get your own tea"

G/F: "Are you having an affair?"

Me: ""Sorry, I can't answer that until after the JR and all the evidence has been presented".

Can be used in any tricky situations that present themselves.

I tried it too... just having my nose reset now.

 

[Nick]

Try reading my post with an unbiased view. You will see I don't, but I do apportion more blame the way of SISU.

Or the post above you just liked saying they weren't sure what the council have done wrong?

 

[Astute]

Coventry fan: The three weeks were up ages ago. Where is all the information about this new ground you promised us?

Labo: I was misquoted. I said three weeks after the JR. We need to keep confidentiality just in case someone else wants to build a football stadium.

 

[Samo]

Or the post above you just liked saying they weren't sure what the council have done wrong?

I rest my case

 

[chiefdave]

This seems to be a lot of effort if you haven't already got confirmation from SISU that they would be interested in paying a proper price for the Ricoh, and presumably ACL.

Have you made any enquiries of SISU? Have you asked Higgs if they are willing to sell their shares?

A sensible idea. At the moment we are assured SISU are advancing with plans to build a new stadium so, taking them at their word, anything that happens in the elections will not impact of the club in the slightest.

IMO the best route for Get Cov Back to the Ricoh to take would be to get an independent valuation carried out, this can of course be done without full access to ACL, Higgs or the Council if done on a conditional basis. Then present this to SISU and ask them to confirm that they were be prepared to open negotiations with this valuation as a reference. At that point, if you get a positive answer we're moving forward, if SISU reject it no matter what you do at the elections it will be a waste of time.

 

[Nick]

Coventry fan: The three weeks were up ages ago. Where is all the information about this new ground you promised us?

Labo: I was misquoted. I said three weeks after the JR. We need to keep confidentiality just in case someone else wants to build a football stadium.

Who has said they haven't been full of shit also? Yet as soon as anybody tries to find anything out about the council, there are a million posts stating the obvious?

 

[Astute]

Or the post above you just liked saying they weren't sure what the council have done wrong?

Which is right. I am not sure what they have done wrong. We have seen bits of emails. Does this make CCC guilty? Or were they private emails with nothing to do with CCC so they are guilty of nothing? Have they been taken out of context?

Or are you sure about these emails and think I should be?

 

[Nick]

Which is right. I am not sure what they have done wrong. We have seen bits of emails. Does this make CCC guilty? Or were they private emails with nothing to do with CCC so they are guilty of nothing? Have they been taken out of context?

Or are you sure about these emails and think I should be?

How weren't they anything to do with CCC?

I am not saying hang anybody over these emails, they could well be taken out of context so surely they should be pursued to find out?

If there is a little nugget of information which could lead to something, dig further to find out more. Don't just say "oh its nothing". This goes all ways, not just CCC / ACL.

 

[robbiethemole]

As I live in Rugby, I have no vote on the issues here but feel as a fan this is not the way forward. How can Rob think that SISU can be sold the Ricoh, they don't want to BUY it, they want it for nothing!!!

everbody needs to realise they don't do negotiations.

Surely this campaign is going to fall at the first hurdle on that basis. Why should CCC or ACL,a separate business with no connection to our Club, other than being a landlord for them until recently, have to do

anything to make life easier for SISU? SISU have made their decision and must now face the consequences of that, and sink or swim.

 

[Astute]

Who has said they haven't been full of shit also? Yet as soon as anybody tries to find anything out about the council, there are a million posts stating the obvious?

So what are you trying to find out about CCC by having a go at posters that don't have the same view as yourself? I have seen no proof about what CCC have done wrong. What proof do you have? And I am not going on about how the rent was set too high. We have a 99% agreement on this at least. The one thing we do all agree on.

 

[Grendel]

Which is right. I am not sure what they have done wrong. We have seen bits of emails. Does this make CCC guilty? Or were they private emails with nothing to do with CCC so they are guilty of nothing? Have they been taken out of context?

Or are you sure about these emails and think I should be?

How can e- mails be taken out of context?

 

[Astute]

How weren't they anything to do with CCC?

I am not saying hang anybody over these emails, they could well be taken out of context so surely they should be pursued to find out?

If there is a little nugget of information which could lead to something, dig further to find out more. Don't just say "oh its nothing". This goes all ways, not just CCC / ACL.

:claping hands:

Which is why I am looking forward to the JR. We will get more than just the SISU version then. Hopefully we will find out the truth.

 

[Nick]

So what are you trying to find out about CCC by having a go at posters that don't have the same view as yourself? I have seen no proof about what CCC have done wrong. What proof do you have? And I am not going on about how the rent was set too high. We have a 99% agreement on this at least. The one thing we do all agree on.

I can't see where I have had a go at anybody for not having the same view?

Surely the rent being too high was something the council / ACL did wrong? That is a debate for another thread though isn't it?

 

[Nick]

As I live in Rugby, I have no vote on the issues here but feel as a fan this is not the way forward. How can Rob think that SISU can be sold the Ricoh, they don't want to BUY it, they want it for nothing!!!

everbody needs to realise they don't do negotiations.

Surely this campaign is going to fall at the first hurdle on that basis. Why should CCC or ACL,a separate business with no connection to our Club, other than being a landlord for them until recently, have to do

anything to make life easier for SISU? SISU have made their decision and must now face the consequences of that, and sink or swim.

Any proof they want it for free?

 

[Grendel]

So what are you trying to find out about CCC by having a go at posters that don't have the same view as yourself? I have seen no proof about what CCC have done wrong. What proof do you have? And I am not going on about how the rent was set too high. We have a 99% agreement on this at least. The one thing we do all agree on.

You say there is no proof they have done wrong but bin the same post admit the management company they run overcharged the club for years. Really you can't make some things up.

 

[Nick]

:claping hands:

Which is why I am looking forward to the JR. We will get more than just the SISU version then. Hopefully we will find out the truth.

I totally agree, I also hope it actually achieves something

 

[Samo]

Which is right. I am not sure what they have done wrong. We have seen bits of emails. Does this make CCC guilty? Or were they private emails with nothing to do with CCC so they are guilty of nothing? Have they been taken out of context?

Or are you sure about these emails and think I should be?

So if you are not sure what they have done wrong, do you apportion any blame to them?

 

[shmmeee]

OK let's post a list of things we're not happy about each side doing:

I'll do Sisu:

- moved club out of city
- attacked fans groups
- threatened to liquidate club
- refused forum on financial future of club that they suggested
- tried to sue dissenting voices
- continually refused offers and reduced offers in negotiations
- allowed the club to go into administration
- moved club assets away from the GS to prevent a proper admin
- continually missed own deadlines to progress on new stadium

And that's just the non-football stuff. All I see on the other side is an allegation about not sending an email and a refusal to agree to a CVA. And to be honest, when it comes down to it, the only side with an actual duty to make decisions that benefit the club are CCFC and by proxy Sisu.

 

[Rusty Trombone]

A sensible idea. At the moment we are assured SISU are advancing with plans to build a new stadium so, taking them at their word, anything that happens in the elections will not impact of the club in the slightest.

IMO the best route for Get Cov Back to the Ricoh to take would be to get an independent valuation carried out, this can of course be done without full access to ACL, Higgs or the Council if done on a conditional basis. Then present this to SISU and ask them to confirm that they were be prepared to open negotiations with this valuation as a reference. At that point, if you get a positive answer we're moving forward, if SISU reject it no matter what you do at the elections it will be a waste of time.

A valuation, even on this basis, will cost a few thousand. I doubt these guys are stupid enough to waste their money (I hope I'm right). They would need to know what's being valued as well, it's been discussed many times that there is no point owning the ground without at least a share in the lease.