Ethics Commitee Meeting Tomorrow (31 Viewers)

[SkyBlueZack]

I care to but I don't cry over spilt milk which is what you're doing. One meeting yesterday isn't changing a thing so get over it. You know as much as me and we judge it for ourselves hence we are entitled to our own opinion.

As I said the there more than likely lies somewhere in the middle and council bashing isn't the way forward just as sisu bashing isn't. I also dislike the CT as their reporting I will accept seems very biased and hypercritical at times.

My point is who cares where the blame lies? It's obvious all parties share the blame so no point in pointing fingers and slagging off over a forum. We need positive ways to overcome it and be together as fans not slagging other fans off for having another point of view.

My opinion is let's see where we are after this season SBZ by that I mean if we get promoted we get a much bigger say on the Ricoh as championship football is a big prize these days. (Never use to be) and if we get promoted then we can use our weight a bit more and get better deals for ccfc as a club. If we don't get promoted then nothing wrong with the rent deal we are on For now.

What's your way forward?

Sighs. If you're so apathetic towards it all, why you still commenting? Thought you had got over it? My way forward is hamstrung by what the council have done. That's why people still discuss it. This club has to be self sustainable, be it in the premiership or conference. SISU will not put money in. Nor will any likely investor. There is only a few Abramovichs in this world and we're not likely to have one rocking up in Coventry. Therefore for the club to be sustainable the Ricoh was a massive part of that. As we're seeing with wasps. Or should I just enjoy the fact that another sporting club from another part of the country has the benefits that my club from the area should rightfully have?

 

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[SkyBlueZack]

Taking an awful long time with them teas Mr Gilbert

 

[martcov]

yup this. only council employees could argue against this

The official CCFC line is that they need their own stadium. Theoretically they could, and Indeed do, claim that they would not have taken the Ricoh because of the debt in the deal offered to Wasps. They ( TF etc ) are not council employees. They also would argue against the " complete arseholes " bit of the post.

 

[SkyBlueZack]

The official CCFC line is that they need their own stadium. Theoretically they could, and Indeed do, claim that they would not have taken the Ricoh because of the debt in the deal offered to Wasps. They ( TF etc ) are not council employees. They also would argue against the " complete arseholes " bit of the post.

Keep peddling this line. We know it ain't true. There was a mention of a document stating the club would have accepted a 125 year lease, HALF of what was sold to wasps. Do we all really believe that SISU would not have paid 5 million approx and taken on the loan in exchange for a 250 year lease? As for the SISU have no money line, does anyone have proof of this? There a hedge fund, can't imagine them being skint. Can't imagine them not being able to find finance for 5 million and sorted out the loan later. Wake up!

 

[fernandopartridge]

Don't worry sure you will get some sarky remark that's hilarious.

Anyway if FP and SBZ want to contribute to this thread?

What is your beef? What's so wrong that's got you so mad over this pointless meeting yesterday? (On topic)

You're either completely thick or being deliberately obtuse. Not that a clown like you would ever delve beneath the headlines anyway, look at the documents. It shows a council that conducted a campaign against SISU which has culminated in London Wasps RFC now taking effective ownership of the stadium.

 

[martcov]

Keep peddling this line. We know it ain't true. There was a mention of a document stating the club would have accepted a 125 year lease, HALF of what was sold to wasps. Do we all really believe that SISU would not have paid 5 million approx and taken on the loan in exchange for a 250 year lease? As for the SISU have no money line, does anyone have proof of this? There a hedge fund, can't imagine them being skint. Can't imagine them not being able to find finance for 5 million and sorted out the loan later. Wake up!

I know nothing about SISU being skint. They administer other people's money as far as I understand it.

TF told a journalist from the Guardian that SISU would not have accepted the Wasps' deal ( which included a 250 year lease ) because of the 14,4m debt.

I am not peddling a line. If anyone is, it is TF for whatever reason. Ask him, not me.

 

[torchomatic]

I think his response will be "ha, ha"

SISU which has culminated in London Wasps RFC now taking effective ownership of the stadium.

 

[martcov]

You're either completely thick or being deliberately obtuse. Not that a clown like you would ever delve beneath the headlines anyway, look at the documents. It shows a council that conducted a campaign against SISU which has culminated in London Wasps RFC now taking effective ownership of the stadium.

TBF, SISU were also doing PR - e.g. through Les Reid - and we only have the council documents to base our judgement upon. The rest is an over simplification of years of suspect dealings by both sides.

It would be great if we could also delve into the SISU documents to get a balanced viewpoint. No-one on here is in the position to do that.

The best chance of gaining more information is the JR. So wait and see...... which side was the worst out of two suspect groups.

 

[SkyBlueZack]

TF has said a lot of things. Some people believe. Some people don't. You see people believe what they want to believe. Usually what suits them or what they want to hear or see. I'm not singling you out. Just speaking generally of what has happened throughout this mess.

 

[italiahorse]

Sighs. If you're so apathetic towards it all, why you still commenting? Thought you had got over it? My way forward is hamstrung by what the council have done. That's why people still discuss it. This club has to be self sustainable, be it in the premiership or conference. SISU will not put money in. Nor will any likely investor. There is only a few Abramovichs in this world and we're not likely to have one rocking up in Coventry. Therefore for the club to be sustainable the Ricoh was a massive part of that. As we're seeing with wasps. Or should I just enjoy the fact that another sporting club from another part of the country has the benefits that my club from the area should rightfully have?

A club being sustainable will not get you to the PL. You need to take a finanancial risk (debt/sugar daddy) to get there.

Still want to see the business case for the Ricoh against a new stadium.
Yes both cases will not get us there. That fight was lost before Sisu got here.

 

[Nick]

TBF, SISU were also doing PR - e.g. through Les Reid - and we only have the council documents to base our judgement upon. The rest is an over simplification of years of suspect dealings by both sides.

It would be great if we could also delve into the SISU documents to get a balanced viewpoint. No-one on here is in the position to do that.

The best chance of gaining more information is the JR. So wait and see...... which side was the worst out of two suspect groups.

The thing is people were hammering Les Reid for being SISU's PR but it seems it has turned out he was just trying to report what was actually happening at the time, especially with the bailout thing that was "not reported" which nobody seems to really have much of an issue with.

I don't doubt SISU were attempting to do some aspects of PR, where they went wrong though is not spending a fair amount on Weber Shandwick and denying it.

I think 99.9% of people will tell you SISU haven't always done the best by the club, owners will come and go and often screw up. Local councils however, you would expect to do the best by the club (Especially after they put out those heart wrenching statements about being stood by us in the terraces etc). I am not talking about owners, just the club. If they wanted the club to gain from it I am pretty sure they could have made offers with conditions about ownership to make sure the club was benefiting from it.

 

[martcov]

TF has said a lot of things. Some people believe. Some people don't. You see people believe what they want to believe. Usually what suits them or what they want to hear or see. I'm not singling you out. Just speaking generally of what has happened throughout this mess.

I think that is a problem and it is no wonder that there is and was distrust between the parties. Since TF and Joy are out of the Limelight at CCFC, things have got better. The new CEO will be a great help in improving CCFC's image with us and business partners imo - judging by his background ( as opposed to, say, ML's city and Blair background ).

 

[fernandopartridge]

A club being sustainable will not get you to the PL. You need to take a finanancial risk (debt/sugar daddy) to get there.

Still want to see the business case for the Ricoh against a new stadium.
Yes both cases will not get us there. That fight was lost before Sisu got here.

The 'Swansea model' was widely espoused on here.

Was that not sustainable? Oh, I forget, the council there didn't attempt to make up for their own financial mismanagement by charging Swansea City a punitive rate for renting the stadium.

 

[Astute]

Of course yesterday looked good for SISU and bad for CCC. It was the turn of SISU's legal team. Just like in the JR when Grendel said that they would win. So we have heard one side of the story. Although we can see that CCC could have done things a lot better.

 

[italiahorse]

The 'Swansea model' was widely espoused on here.

Was that not sustainable? Oh, I forget, the council there didn't attempt to make up for their own financial mismanagement by charging Swansea City a punitive rate for renting the stadium.

Yes they charge them a pepercorn rent, but both Swansea and Ospreys contributute £1M a year towards the stadium maintenance costs.
I would say that the football club pay the majority of that.

 

[torchomatic]

Seems he had a point, didn't he?

TBF, SISU were also doing PR - e.g. through Les Reid -

 

[SkyBlueZack]

A club being sustainable will not get you to the PL. You need to take a finanancial risk (debt/sugar daddy) to get there.

Still want to see the business case for the Ricoh against a new stadium.
Yes both cases will not get us there. That fight was lost before Sisu got here.

Financial risk is the reason we're in this mess. Yet you advocate more of the same.

Genius!

 

[martcov]

The thing is people were hammering Les Reid for being SISU's PR but it seems it has turned out he was just trying to report what was actually happening at the time, especially with the bailout thing that was "not reported" which nobody seems to really have much of an issue with.

I don't doubt SISU were attempting to do some aspects of PR, where they went wrong though is not spending a fair amount on Weber Shandwick and denying it.

I think 99.9% of people will tell you SISU haven't always done the best by the club, owners will come and go and often screw up. Local councils however, you would expect to do the best by the club (Especially after they put out those heart wrenching statements about being stood by us in the terraces etc). I am not talking about owners, just the club. If they wanted the club to gain from it I am pretty sure they could have made offers with conditions about ownership to make sure the club was benefiting from it.

After the JR we will all be in a better position to make judgement. Then will also be SISU's time to decide whether to stay or go - depending on the judgement.
At this moment in time we are in Limbo. We have a cheap rent deal with little revenues - which could be better than a high rent with higher revenues from F&B. The stadium still has plenty of sky blue in it and the team is well managed and doing well. The disaster has not hit yet. The game is not over. We could still do a deal with Wasps or there is a remote possibilty that TF does come up with a stadium ( doubt it though ).

The JR (final) result is the game changer.

 

[torchomatic]

"Looked"? TBH, it's not a case of "looking good", that just suggests spin. There was a lot of material written in black and white that exposed what the Council, Mutton, Lucas were up to. Something LR has said all along.

Of course yesterday looked good for SISU and bad for CCC. It was the turn of SISU's legal team. Just like in the JR when Grendel said that they would win. So we have heard one side of the story. Although we can see that CCC could have done things a lot better.

 

[Nick]

Seems he had a point, didn't he?

I think a few people were written off. I filed most of the stuff Labovitch said in the "over exaggerated or bullshit" file, but it turns out some of what he said was true.

 

[martcov]

Seems he had a point, didn't he?

Not disputing that people doing PR have good points. They are supposed to place the "good" points at the top of the list and leave the "bad" points on page 92, bottom left hand corner.

 

[Astute]

"Looked"? TBH, it's not a case of "looking good", that just suggests spin. There was a lot of material written in black and white that exposed what the Council, Mutton, Lucas were up to. Something LR has said all along.

Which is why I said they could have done things a lot better.

 

[eastwoodsdustman]

Yes they charge them a pepercorn rent, but both Swansea and Ospreys contributute £1M a year towards the stadium maintenance costs.
I would say that the football club pay the majority of that.

We were paying rent, running costs and massively marked up utility costs under the previous rental agreement at the Ricoh. It was never a case of 'heres £1.2 million and we'll rock up when we like'.

 

[Astute]

"Looked"? TBH, it's not a case of "looking good", that just suggests spin. There was a lot of material written in black and white that exposed what the Council, Mutton, Lucas were up to. Something LR has said all along.

Spin? Like saying that someone has made derogatory remarks but still getting a hug off the victim?

 

[eastwoodsdustman]

It's unfair to say that LR was acting as a PR outlet for Sisuin all of this. The bloke lost his job because he reported what he saw and wouldn't toe the party line with his employers. People who slaughtered him on here, and there were a lot, need to look at themselves and admit that he was correct all along.

 

[Nick]

After the JR we will all be in a better position to make judgement. Then will also be SISU's time to decide whether to stay or go - depending on the judgement.
At this moment in time we are in Limbo. We have a cheap rent deal with little revenues - which could be better than a high rent with higher revenues from F&B. The stadium still has plenty of sky blue in it and the team is well managed and doing well. The disaster has not hit yet. The game is not over. We could still do a deal with Wasps or there is a remote possibilty that TF does come up with a stadium ( doubt it though ).

The JR (final) result is the game changer.

Make judgement about what though?

You have councillors saying things to the press (look at Mutton with his bit about the greed running through the DNA). He made a statement of his thoughts on the radio, then when asked yesterday he backtracked saying he was just quoting somebody else. The same as Ann Lucas saying "hell will freeze over" and then backtracks saying she was just quoting the thoughts of city fans.

I'd say when you have councillor's doing things like that, you can sort of make a judgement can't you?

 

[Nick]

Not disputing that people doing PR have good points. They are supposed to place the "good" points at the top of the list and leave the "bad" points on page 92, bottom left hand corner.

You would think local news reporters would just report the news though?

 

[Astute]

Make judgement about what though?

You have councillors saying things to the press (look at Mutton with his bit about the greed running through the DNA). He made a statement of his thoughts on the radio, then when asked yesterday he backtracked saying he was just quoting somebody else. The same as Ann Lucas saying "hell will freeze over" and then backtracks saying she was just quoting the thoughts of city fans.

I'd say when you have councillor's doing things like that, you can sort of make a judgement can't you?

Would anyone say that the DNA comment isn't true

 

[Nick]

Would anyone say that the DNA comment isn't true

I haven't doubted it, but why backtrack and make out he was just quoting. I'd have much more respect for him if he said "Yes, I said it, because it is true" rather than some half arsed excuse trying to wriggle out of it.

 

[Kingokings204]

You're either completely thick or being deliberately obtuse. Not that a clown like you would ever delve beneath the headlines anyway, look at the documents. It shows a council that conducted a campaign against SISU which has culminated in London Wasps RFC now taking effective ownership of the stadium.

And I'm the clown?

Right ok I have changed my mind and now I fully blame the council 100%. Ok what's that achieved? Oh yeah nothing.

 

[Astute]

I haven't doubted it, but why backtrack and make out he was just quoting. I'd have much more respect for him if he said "Yes, I said it, because it is true" rather than some half arsed excuse trying to wriggle out of it.

We don't know if he quoted or not.

All this 'he said she said' is a bit tame to what we have been used to.

 

[hutch1972]

Would anyone say that the DNA comment isn't true

Does not matter if it's true or not , people in positions such as they have should keep it shut.

 

[hill83]

What would people do if Sisu took over Wasps?

 

[MusicDating]

It's unfair to say that LR was acting as a PR outlet for Sisuin all of this. The bloke lost his job because he reported what he saw and wouldn't toe the party line with his employers. People who slaughtered him on here, and there were a lot, need to look at themselves and admit that he was correct all along.

And it goes to show just how successful the council PR machine was when anyone who spoke out against CC was a SISU rent boy.

LR has come across as arrogant in his Twitter dealings with fans, but if he did quit because he disagreed with his editor agreeing to bury bad council news, then that was a very admirable stance.

 

[Nick]

We don't know if he quoted or not.

Did he mention a quote when he said it? His direct quote from CWR looks very much like it was coming from him. Which again is fine, just don't backtrack.