Back to being the biggest club in Coventry? (22 Viewers)

[stupot07]

I appreciate your view but it is based on the supposition that CCFC want or could afford the Ricoh.
In fact Sisu have said they couldn't as it stands.

So in view of that your plan will be .....

...... CCFC and fans should prevent Wasps from being successful so eventually they will leave.
...... Sisu can then be almost certain that CCFC are the only clients and can continue the plan to get the stadium unencumbered.

Look forward to that !!

So what do you want us to do? forgive wasps? stop taking delight when they lose? start attending wasps games? hold hands with wasps fans and sing kumbaya?

You seem obsessed with anyone bad mouthing or taking delight in wasps defeats/poor attendances, etc.


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[Terry Gibson's perm]

I appreciate your view but it is based on the supposition that CCFC want or could afford the Ricoh.
In fact Sisu have said they couldn't as it stands.

So in view of that your plan will be .....

...... CCFC and fans should prevent Wasps from being successful so eventually they will leave.
...... Sisu can then be almost certain that CCFC are the only clients and can continue the plan to get the stadium unencumbered.

Look forward to that !!

my view has always been that the arena was in the correct hands and shouldn't have been handed on a plate to its new owner or Sisu.

if they are unsuccessful they will leave, this city had a Rugby team already and didn't need a second one

 

[stupot07]

Have you read that thread? They are not bothered !!

Did you read it? One of them said it is on Eastwoods "to do" list.


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[italiahorse]

So what do you want us to do? forgive wasps? stop taking delight when they lose? start attending wasps games? hold hands with wasps fans and sing kumbaya?

You seem obsessed with anyone bad mouthing or taking delight in wasps defeats/poor attendances, etc.


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Just my opinion but ..........

I think CCFC need to use Wasps to get to where they want and if they can get to the PL the tables will turn and we can return the compliment.
They need to be successful as a host for us to survive the next few years and they need to build bridges with the people of Coventry and all the clubs that are affected by them.
I believe that getting visibility in the Championship gives us a better chance of getting rid of Sisu as others become interested.
I would say that the conflict between Sisu/CCC/Wasps needs to end (both ways) so Sisu can build bridges and people can trust them in any future dealings.
I think that once in the PL that a 50% deal for CCFC is then enabled.

Just my opinion.

 

[italiahorse]

Did you read it? One of them said it is on Eastwoods "to do" list.
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I genuinely can't find it among all the positive Wasps comments. What number post ?

 

[italiahorse]

my view has always been that the arena was in the correct hands and shouldn't have been handed on a plate to its new owner or Sisu.

if they are unsuccessful they will leave, this city had a Rugby team already and didn't need a second one

All three teams this season have had higher attendances than they have had for many years.
Am I missing something ?

 

[Terry Gibson's perm]

All three teams this season have had higher attendances than they have had for many years.
Am I missing something ?

Are Wasps not slightly down on last year and you can't class any attendances before they moved here, the football club yes because of a bit of success and better football, I have no idea on the Coventry rugby club.

 

[Terry Gibson's perm]

It will be over by the end of the season IMO

I really cant see it unless Sisu have won by then.

 

[stupot07]

Just my opinion but ..........

I think CCFC need to use Wasps to get to where they want and if they can get to the PL the tables will turn and we can return the compliment.
They need to be successful as a host for us to survive the next few years and they need to build bridges with the people of Coventry and all the clubs that are affected by them.
I believe that getting visibility in the Championship gives us a better chance of getting rid of Sisu as others become interested.
I would say that the conflict between Sisu/CCC/Wasps needs to end (both ways) so Sisu can build bridges and people can trust them in any future dealings.
I think that once in the PL that a 50% deal for CCFC is then enabled.

Just my opinion.

Ccfc need to use wasps? How? Cheap rent and limited access to revenues is nowhere near enough to help us to get the PL.

IMHO Coventry can't sustain 2 successful and well supported teams - if we did well and were pulling in 20-25k+ every week, wasps will be having lower attendances like they have for the majority of games this season. Likewise, If wasps are doing well and pulling in 20-25k+ every week, that will lead to a decrease in our attendances. Wasps will not want to subsidise the football club so them being successful does not mean the club getting any favours - they have to make ACL profitable to be able to fund their loss making rugby club, to pay the £2m pa interest on the bonds, pay the bonds back in a few years time, build their academy, and invest more money in their squad.

How is getting to the championship going to get rid of sisu? Who's going to want to buy is when realistically owner the stadium is out of the question?

As I've said before I can't see us getting back to the PL for a long long time, especially now we have no chance of owning the Ricoh and benefiting from the revenues.

The only chance we have of getting the Ricoh is for wasps to struggle to pay back the bonds, and that needs them to struggle not be successful.


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[stupot07]

Are Wasps not slightly down on last year and you can't class any attendances before they moved here, the football club yes because of a bit of success and better football, I have no idea on the Coventry rugby club.

Wasps attendances have been significantly down on lasts seasons Ricoh attendances.


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[Nick]

Wasps attendances have been significantly down on lasts seasons Ricoh attendances.


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Cov Rugby got their best this season which was 1,298. They got 2132 last season, with an average of 1506.

They are down too, they did well last season which is why I assume they were high.

CCFC are doing well this season which is why they are high.

Neither of those were to do with Wasps.

 

[italiahorse]

Ccfc need to use wasps? How? Cheap rent and limited access to revenues is nowhere near enough to help us to get the PL.

IMHO Coventry can't sustain 2 successful and well supported teams - if we did well and were pulling in 20-25k+ every week, wasps will be having lower attendances like they have for the majority of games this season. Likewise, If wasps are doing well and pulling in 20-25k+ every week, that will lead to a decrease in our attendances. Wasps will not want to subsidise the football club so them being successful does not mean the club getting any favours - they have to make ACL profitable to be able to fund their loss making rugby club, to pay the £2m pa interest on the bonds, pay the bonds back in a few years time, build their academy, and invest more money in their squad.

How is getting to the championship going to get rid of sisu? Who's going to want to buy is when realistically owner the stadium is out of the question?

As I've said before I can't see us getting back to the PL for a long long time, especially now we have no chance of owning the Ricoh and benefiting from the revenues.

The only chance we have of getting the Ricoh is for wasps to struggle to pay back the bonds, and that needs them to struggle not be successful.


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So when Wasps leave will you support the move to Northampton to get that Ricoh freehold ?

It's the 'best' chance we have of getting to the PL. Having our own little stadium on the outside of Coventry will not get us there.

 

[italiahorse]

Wasps attendances have been significantly down on lasts seasons Ricoh attendances.
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Last season was always going to be a one off.
With all 3 teams playing well the attendance will always rise and be dependent on that, not dependent on Wasps.

 

[Nick]

Last season was always going to be a one off.
With all 3 teams playing well the attendance will always rise and be dependent on that, not dependent on Wasps.

So attendances aren't up? Apart from ours?

 

[lifeskyblue]

Football always has been bigger than rugby both nationally and locally. Cov city bigger than cov rugby. And even though wasps one of the better rugby clubs in the country they are smaller in the national psyche and in attendances than a league one football club. Says it all really!


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[stupot07]

So when Wasps leave will you support the move to Northampton to get that Ricoh freehold ?

It's the 'best' chance we have of getting to the PL. Having our own little stadium on the outside of Coventry will not get us there.

Brilliant, now you're making up a scenario that will likely never happen as your argument for wasps staying. We will not move to Northampton again, so I won't have to make a choice of supporting or campaigning against a move to Sixfields.

We have very little chance of getting to the PL without new owners, who won't see our club as an attractive proposition as they wont be able to get the ground. Like you say, nothing's changed, our revenues are still massively limited by our rental deal. And no I'm not suggesting we build a small ground.

If we signed a 10 year deal tomorrow, what % of the stadium naming rights do you think wasps will give us?

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[italiahorse]

Brilliant, now you're making up a scenario that will likely never happen as your argument for wasps staying. We will not move to Northampton again, so I won't have to make a choice of supporting or campaigning against a move to Sixfields.
​If Sisu want the stadium they will do anything. We know they have history.
We have very little chance of getting to the PL without new owners, who won't see our club as an attractive proposition as they wont be able to get the ground. Like you say, nothing's changed, our revenues are still massively limited by our rental deal. And no I'm not suggesting we build a small ground.
We won't have the ground, Sisu will. How can you be certain they will let the club and the ground go. It's a massive leap of faith.
If we signed a 10 year deal tomorrow, what % of the stadium naming rights do you think wasps will give us?
What % of the naming rights will Sisu give us and how much will they take?
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You surely need to see a plan that says Sisu want the ground and if they do you surely want to know what they will pay for it ?
Their previous attempt suggests not a lot.
You can then hazard a guess what the plan would be to get it ? I suggest more of the same and it might include more threats on liquidation and moving us.

But hey, lets get rid of Wasps first and then let Sisu take over the plan !!

 

[Moff]

Italia, you have your opinion which is fair enough, but there are others like myself that want the club CCFC, to be matched up with the stadium, and that is whoever owns the club.

My reasoning for this is as follows

1) The ground will give the club more income. Whoever owns it, some of that income will go tothe club, meaning it will be more financially viable, and the Club will be able to invest more whilst still meeeting Financial fairplay rules.

2) SISU have made a huge mess of their investment in the club. Matching the club with the stadium makes it a saleable asset, rather than its current pretty worthless state. Matching the ground with the club would hopefully lead to its sale to new owners giving most people exactly what they want, and a new future for the club.

I would rather the ground be in the clubs hands, whoever the owner, rather than a London Rugby team.
Lets not kid oursleves whoever the owner, Wasps, SISU, Byng et al, unless they love CCFC they will always be after making money from the stadium, and lining their own pockets in some way, just as Richardson has done with wasps. Lets not kid ourselves otherwise.

 

[Moff]

Whoever the owner, Wasps, SISU, Byng et al, unless they love CCFC they will always be after making money from the stadium, and lining their own pockets in some way, just as Richardson has done with wasps. Lets not kid ourselves otherwise.

I read that bit back and realised how depressingly true it is.

(So much so I am now talking to myself )

 

[stupot07]

You surely need to see a plan that says Sisu want the ground and if they do you surely want to know what they will pay for it ?
Their previous attempt suggests not a lot.
You can then hazard a guess what the plan would be to get it ? I suggest more of the same and it might include more threats on liquidation and moving us.

But hey, lets get rid of Wasps first and then let Sisu take over the plan !!

They will not go back to Sixfields, it costs them far too much and they gained very little. You're just scaremongering now.

I agree with both of Moffs reasons why we need the club to own/leasehold the Ricoh.



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[chiefdave]

I'm not happy that we don't own the stadium but at some point you guys will need to accept we are stuck with them and like CCFC management work with them.

Why do we need to accept it? If SISU moved us 90 miles away would you suggest we also just accept that?

The only thing in the stadium that looks like ours is the seats and our wall, that will change eventually. The front entrance looks like wasps, the signs inside the ground are bigger than ours, from what I understand all the cov memorabilia inside the ground / lounges, etc like legend lounge have been removed and replaced by wasps. I heard someone say that they had recently had a tour and wouldn't know we play here.

Apparently Singers has, or is shortly to be, renovated and the CCFC connection removed. How anyone can have watched the Jimmy Hill service the other day with a backdrop of huge Wasps logos and be happy with the situation is beyond me.

Even Eastwood himself said the the other day he was surprised by the lack of opposition from local people over the move, he was shocked by how easy people rolled over and accepted it. He was expecting a much harder job to have to convince people.

This is the most depressing thing. We went, in a few short months, from thousands marching through the streets in protest at a temporary move 35 miles away to wholeheartedly embracing a club being ripped from its community and moved 90 miles. It reflects very badly on the city and don't for a minute kid yourself that people outside the city haven't noticed.

There was nothing stopping you picking up the baton and running with it or anyone of the other's who spend all there time winging about it while doing nothing.

What do you suggest? The local media are 100% onside with Wasps, Poole was on CWR today saying what a dream it is they are here. The council hide behind confidentiality whenever they are asked a question. Wasps own it now, the only thing we can really do is hope, no matter how slim the chance, that they fail and CCFC get another shot at owning the stadium. Realistically all we can do as CCFC fans is make sure as many people as possible know the basics of what happened with the bail out, media blackout etc and ensure we don't assist Wasps financially by turning up to their matches.

I would say that if we can eventually commit long term that Wasps will 'allow' us some customisation of the stadium.

I see zero evidence to support this. When they turned up they made a big play of being caring landlords, all the 'we've been in the same situation rubbish'. Since then they've kicked us out of our dressing room, stopped us using the warm up area, removed CCFC branding and plastered Wasps logos anywhere. To me all signs of being massively insecure and I think shooting themselves in the foot business wise. When they turned up there were very few of our fans in favour of a new ground. As more and more Wasps branding has been applied there's been a clear increase in those who would be happy to move elsewhere.

Also if something lands on your desk promoting the Ricoh, home of CCFC you instantly know where it is, can the same be said for JLR Arena (or whatever it is to be called), home of Wasps?

If it was my business I would give both clubs equal billing, show of the Ricoh as a multi use facility.

 

[chiefdave]

So when Wasps leave will you support the move to Northampton to get that Ricoh freehold ?

In the highly unlikely event that this happens shouldn't we all support them? After all there's no problem with Wasps moving 90 miles so why would there be a problem with us moving?

 

[italiahorse]

Why do we need to accept it? If SISU moved us 90 miles away would you suggest we also just accept that?



Apparently Singers has, or is shortly to be, renovated and the CCFC connection removed. How anyone can have watched the Jimmy Hill service the other day with a backdrop of huge Wasps logos and be happy with the situation is beyond me.



This is the most depressing thing. We went, in a few short months, from thousands marching through the streets in protest at a temporary move 35 miles away to wholeheartedly embracing a club being ripped from its community and moved 90 miles. It reflects very badly on the city and don't for a minute kid yourself that people outside the city haven't noticed.



What do you suggest? The local media are 100% onside with Wasps, Poole was on CWR today saying what a dream it is they are here. The council hide behind confidentiality whenever they are asked a question. Wasps own it now, the only thing we can really do is hope, no matter how slim the chance, that they fail and CCFC get another shot at owning the stadium. Realistically all we can do as CCFC fans is make sure as many people as possible know the basics of what happened with the bail out, media blackout etc and ensure we don't assist Wasps financially by turning up to their matches.



I see zero evidence to support this. When they turned up they made a big play of being caring landlords, all the 'we've been in the same situation rubbish'. Since then they've kicked us out of our dressing room, stopped us using the warm up area, removed CCFC branding and plastered Wasps logos anywhere. To me all signs of being massively insecure and I think shooting themselves in the foot business wise. When they turned up there were very few of our fans in favour of a new ground. As more and more Wasps branding has been applied there's been a clear increase in those who would be happy to move elsewhere.

Also if something lands on your desk promoting the Ricoh, home of CCFC you instantly know where it is, can the same be said for JLR Arena (or whatever it is to be called), home of Wasps?

If it was my business I would give both clubs equal billing, show of the Ricoh as a multi use facility.

Then stay bitter and twisted. I'll just get on with the situation and enjoy my sport.

 

[Nick]

In the highly unlikely event that this happens shouldn't we all support them? After all there's no problem with Wasps moving 90 miles so why would there be a problem with us moving?

As long as Joy comes out and says it is to survive, I guess the council / telegraph / trust etc will all come out and say it needed to be done and back it. Hopefully the Northampton paper will embrace us too.

 

[Grendel]

Then stay bitter and twisted. I'll just get on with the situation and enjoy my sport.

Of course you will and I'm sure you will keep your head held high that you have never supported a club that has moved from a community.

Yes I'm sure you will.

 

[italiahorse]

As long as Joy comes out and says it is to survive, I guess the council / telegraph / trust etc will all come out and say it needed to be done and back it. Hopefully the Northampton paper will embrace us too.

I never believed it the first time thats why I never went.
Along with thousands of other fans I managed to suss out their plan and help bring the team home.

 

[italiahorse]

Of course you will and I'm sure you will keep your head held high that you have never supported a club that has moved from a community.

Yes I'm sure you will.

Which Community was that ?
North London, Sudbury Middlesex, Loftus Road, Wycombe ?

 

[stupot07]

Which Community was that ?
North London, Sudbury Middlesex, Loftus Road, Wycombe ?

Not Coventry or the midlands that's for sure.


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[italiahorse]

Not Coventry or the midlands that's for sure.
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I guess we need to give it a couple of years before they can call Coventry home

 

[chiefdave]

Which Community was that ?
North London, Sudbury Middlesex, Loftus Road, Wycombe ?

Why do you try to make it sound like they were constantly moving around the country?

They haven't played in North London since moving to Sudbury in 1923 (a move of around 5 miles, hardly huge). Stayed at Sudbury until 1996 when they moved to Loftus Road (2 miles away) then Wycombe in 2002. The move to Wycombe was only supposed to be for 2 years but for some reason they elected not to return to Loftus Road. Even moving to Wycombe was only 20 miles and was only ever touted as a temporary move.

 

[italiahorse]

Why do you try to make it sound like they were constantly moving around the country?

They haven't played in North London since moving to Sudbury in 1923 (a move of around 5 miles, hardly huge). Stayed at Sudbury until 1996 when they moved to Loftus Road (2 miles away) then Wycombe in 2002. The move to Wycombe was only supposed to be for 2 years but for some reason they elected not to return to Loftus Road. Even moving to Wycombe was only 20 miles and was only ever touted as a temporary move.

I think if you have to continually move you don't really have a home.
At some point you need to set roots and make a home.
Unfortunately it's a home we continually said we didn't want and CCC called our bluff.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

I think if you have to continually move you don't really have a home.

By that logic, they don't really have a home now.

Or...their home is London.

 

[stupot07]

I guess we need to give it a couple of years before they can call Coventry home

Well they were at Wycombe for 12 years, so we should probably give them that long before they can call it home.....with any luck by then they will have struggled to pay back the bonds and the interest and fuck off back to London.


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[italiahorse]

By that logic, they don't really have a home now.

Or...their home is London.

That's probably why they are trying to lay roots here,

 

[italiahorse]

Well they were at Wycombe for 12 years, so we should probably give them that long before they can call it home.....with any luck by then they will have struggled to pay back the bonds and the interest and fuck off back to London.
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Wycombe didn't share their ambitions when they rejected the new stadium.
They nearly went out of business there as well only 2 years ago.
Ricoh was worth the risk and unfortunately we loose out thanks to Sisu poor management.