More CCC/Wasps/CCFC Angst (6 Viewers)

[lewys33]

I didn't want Wasps here in the first place.
That ground should be CCFC's. I struggle to forgive our owners for the manner in which the negotiations were handled.
They created the opportunity for Wasps.
I can see why Wasps did what they did. So I hold no animosity towards them.
I wish they were not here certainly.
I can also see why the council did what they did.
I can see what our owners were trying to do, however the devastation that action has taken on our club is what I struggle to deal with. Far more than wasps been there or the CET and the council promoting Wasps.

utter bullshit.

I won't forgive the club for temporarily moving to Northampton (to create said oppurtunity) but I won't hold any animosity towards Wasps for moving permanently to Coventry..............

Fucking backwards.

They are both cunts.

 

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[Sick Boy]

utter bullshit.

I won't forgive the club for temporarily moving to Northampton (to create said oppurtunity) but I won't hold any animosity towards Wasps for moving permanently to Coventry..............

Fucking backwards.

They are both cunts.

The hypocrisy is laughable, isn't it?

 

[lewys33]

The hypocrisy is laughable, isn't it?

It is indeed. I can't see how you can disagree with one but not the other? You either accept it all or you don't. You can't pick and choose because your daughter got free tickets for a month or some other bullshit excuse.

I genuinely think people are more connected to the Ricoh than the team it was built for.

 

[Nick]

It is indeed. I can't see how you can agree with one but not the other? You either accept it all or you don't. You can't pick and choose because your daughter got free tickets for a month or some other bullshit excuse.

I genuinely think people are more connected to the Ricoh than the team it was built for.

I see it as a way to show dislike for SISU for some. If it is somebody "against" SISU then by supporting them it is some statement. It is just strange how a lot of people so vocal about SISU and Northampton are now so passionate about Wasps.

There's a guy I saw on Twitter the other day, he has gone from some pretty sick stuff about people who went to Sixfields to being a full on Wasps chuffty.

 

[italiahorse]

The hypocrisy is laughable, isn't it?

It's different.
CCFC are our team and they were moved.
The real reason people object to the Wasps move is that they have taken over our stadium.
At least get the cause of the fight right.

Moving our team to Northampton was unforgivable yet Wasps fans seem quite sterile in their fight.

 

[Nick]

It's different.
CCFC are our team and they were moved.
The real reason people object to the Wasps move is that they have taken over our stadium.
At least get the cause of the fight right.

Moving our team to Northampton was unforgivable yet Wasps fans seem quite sterile in their fight.

It is different because it is permanent and it was to try and aim at a bigger fanbase with no regard to their current fans. It is worse.

Surely people would say it was wrong if they moved to Wyken or Binley?

It is just strange how so many who are so vocal about Wasps now, were so vocal about Sixfields. Very strange.

 

[Hobo]

I see it as a way to show dislike for SISU for some. If it is somebody "against" SISU then by supporting them it is some statement. It is just strange how a lot of people so vocal about SISU and Northampton are now so passionate about Wasps.

There's a guy I saw on Twitter the other day, he has gone from some pretty sick stuff about people who went to Sixfields to being a full on Wasps chuffty.

Just like people who dislike CCC seem to dislike
Wasps and some come out with some pretty suck stuff.

Then one day Maddison is a hero and the next he is a villain. Also overnight Norwich becomes the club people have always hated. Perhaps we will have a new song "shit on the Norwich." All because it was a shit deal. Even though no one seems to know what the deal was.

It's a strange world Nick in which some people seem to want to be angry?

 

[Nick]

Just like people who dislike CCC seem to dislike
Wasps and some come out with some pretty suck stuff.

I think the other day with the Time Capsule thing showed it isn't just 5 or 6 "bitter fans" on here who don't like Wasps. I was surprised at how many "normal people" didn't like them at all with some of the comments. I could understand if it was all hardcore CCFC Fans but it wasn't.

 

[italiahorse]

It is different because it is permanent and it was to try and aim at a bigger fanbase with no regard to their current fans. It is worse.

Surely people would say it was wrong if they moved to Wyken or Binley?

It is just strange how so many who are so vocal about Wasps now, were so vocal about Sixfields. Very strange.

A lot of Wasps fans I speak to, say that at Wycombe they were minutes away from administration/relegation only 2 year ago and that the move to their own stadium was essential.

Yes they wanted to be in West London but that was never going to be possible/affordable and the Ricoh came gift wrapped thanks to Sisu.

Time will tell whether it was the right thing to do but its a good start.

Moving us to Northampton instead of buying into the Ricoh when they could was a massive miscalculation by Sisu and may yet be the end of this club.

 

[Nick]

A lot of Wasps fans I speak to, say that at Wycombe they were minutes away from administration/relegation only 2 year ago and that the move to their own stadium was essential.

Yet you keep going on about how it isn't for us.
Just another day, another bit of hypocrisy.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

A lot of Wasps fans I speak to, say that at Wycombe they were minutes away from administration/relegation only 2 year ago and that the move to their own stadium was essential.

Isn't that the argument SISU made about why they had to go to Northampton, as CCC wouldn't entertain them having their own stadium...?

 

[Nick]

Isn't that the argument SISU made about why they had to go to Northampton, as CCC wouldn't entertain them having their own stadium...?

The difference is, SISU said it and not somebody else..... Which just adds to the hypocrisy.

He will now say CCFC don't need their own stadium, they just need to work with Wasps. Which totally contradicts his other post.

 

[Grendel]

Isn't that the argument SISU made about why they had to go to Northampton, as CCC wouldn't entertain them having their own stadium...?

I think the "fan" is called Nicky"

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Yes they wanted to be in West London but that was never going to be possible/affordable

Seems to have been possible for Brentford and Wimbledon.

More, the answer is Wasps did not want to, rather than were unable to. And if the club was close to administration, that was because they were spending more than they earned... the same as we did.

Therefore, the logical conclusion is we should buy Ibrox.

(Anyway, this digression is another reason why a Wasps board is vital, as I've got sucked in to the same old same old again!)

 

[Nick]

Seems to have been possible for Brentford and Wimbledon.

More, the answer is Wasps did not want to, rather than were unable to. And if the club was close to administration, that was because they were spending more than they earned... the same as we did.

Therefore, the logical conclusion is we should buy Ibrox.

(Anyway, this digression is another reason why a Wasps board is vital, as I've got sucked in to the same old same old again!)

And that is where you can't argue or fault people like LASt, BHSB and Lewys above (and I am sure others) who at least have exactly the same view and morals all the way through.

Just swap / change CCFC for Wasps in different scenarios and people's views change, but with the same situations.

 

[lewys33]

It's different.
CCFC are our team and they were moved.
The real reason people object to the Wasps move is that they have taken over our stadium.
At least get the cause of the fight right.

Moving our team to Northampton was unforgivable yet Wasps fans seem quite sterile in their fight.

1) No it isn't - quite similar actually
2) Correct - and I did not agree with it. Same way I don't agree with wimbledon/mk dons nor do I agree with Wasps. You on the other hand pick and choose.
3) They have taken over our stadium AND moved a substantial amount. Something which we should be able to relate to (even though it was for a short time).

A lot of Wasps fans I speak to, say that at Wycombe they were minutes away from administration/relegation only 2 year ago and that the move to their own stadium was essential.

Yes they wanted to be in West London but that was never going to be possible/affordable and the Ricoh came gift wrapped thanks to Sisu.

Time will tell whether it was the right thing to do but its a good start.

Moving us to Northampton instead of buying into the Ricoh when they could was a massive miscalculation by Sisu and may yet be the end of this club.

This seems about right .........

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Same way I don't agree with wimbledon/mk dons nor do I agree with Wasps.

Personally, I'll never set foot in Stadium MK. I also felt dirty cheering Chelsea on over the weekend...

It's the bigger picture that's dangerous. If a club moving itself unilaterally becomes a success, then all failing clubs with no physical ties find it easier to do the same...

And how could we complain if CCFC then decided a move to Windsor Park offered them a bigger potential fan base and more revenues, if that was the accepted way a club worked?

 

[Nick]

Personally, I'll never set foot in Stadium MK. I also felt dirty cheering Chelsea on over the weekend...

It's the bigger picture that's dangerous. If a club moving itself unilaterally becomes a success, then all failing clubs with no physical ties find it easier to do the same...

And how could we complain if CCFC then decided a move to Windsor Park offered them a bigger potential fan base and more revenues, if that was the accepted way a club worked?

They couldn't. When you take the Wasps situation and just change it like you did to CCFC and a place 80 miles away, put it to somebody who is keen on Wasps being here then the view suddenly changes.

I still think that the "get as many to MK Dons as possible to show SISU for moving our club" was a bit strange.

 

[lewys33]

They couldn't. When you take the Wasps situation and just change it like you did to CCFC and a place 80 miles away, put it to somebody who is keen on Wasps being here then the view suddenly changes.

I still think that the "get as many to MK Dons as possible to show SISU for moving our club" was a bit strange.

Yes it was hypocritical. I didn't attend and have never felt the need to attend that franchise.

 

[italiahorse]

Isn't that the argument SISU made about why they had to go to Northampton, as CCC wouldn't entertain them having their own stadium...?

CCC always wanted the club to have the stadium. Sisu thought they could get it cheap and dirty and that changed CCC thinking. As a CCFC fan you can put a vague case for Sisu but as a tax payer you will logically back CCC. Based solely on numbers it was the right decision.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

CCC always wanted the club to have the stadium. Sisu thought they could get it cheap and dirty and that changed CCC thinking. As a CCFC fan you can put a vague case for Sisu but as a tax payer you will logically back CCC. Based solely on numbers it was the right decision.

No I won't back CCC, as they sold the stadium cheap and dirty (according to popular valuation) anyway, without taking into account the cultural heritage of the city. And that cultural heritage is what a city is based on, its identity, the recognition it gets across the globe... the intangible things that you may be able to skew short-term by inflicting a club such as Wasps on to the city, but long term will end up embedding the identity as transient, blurred, unclear, vague.

And that will be far worse to the taxpayer long term.

 

[italiahorse]

The difference is, SISU said it and not somebody else..... Which just adds to the hypocrisy.

He will now say CCFC don't need their own stadium, they just need to work with Wasps. Which totally contradicts his other post.

Never said they don't need there own stadium. I said from where we are what is the best thing to do. IMO the stadium as proposed by Sisu is not a good option vs the current deal at the Ricoh. But distort it as much as you like to try and put it that Sisu had no choice.

 

[Moff]

Never said they don't need there own stadium. I said from where we are what is the best thing to do. IMO the stadium as proposed by Sisu is not a good option vs the current deal at the Ricoh. But distort it as much as you like to try and put it that Sisu had no choice.

WE need our own stadium, end of, whichever way you dress it. We will always be a pauper to Wasps otherwise, and a slave to SISU.

 

[Nick]

Never said they don't need there own stadium. I said from where we are what is the best thing to do. IMO the stadium as proposed by Sisu is not a good option vs the current deal at the Ricoh. But distort it as much as you like to try and put it that Sisu had no choice.

So we need to wait for a stadium to come up for cheap and move away.

 

[italiahorse]

No I won't back CCC, as they sold the stadium cheap and dirty (according to popular valuation) anyway, without taking into account the cultural heritage of the city. And that cultural heritage is what a city is based on, its identity, the recognition it gets across the globe... the intangible things that you may be able to skew short-term by inflicting a club such as Wasps on to the city, but long term will end up embedding the identity as transient, blurred, unclear, vague.

And that will be far worse to the taxpayer long term.

Wasps bought it at a value Sisu were not prepared to pay. A value driven down because we were moved to Northampton and hence market value at that time.

 

[italiahorse]

So we need to wait for a stadium to come up for cheap and move away.

Can't happen financially and certainly with our profile no fan base. We already know CCFC fans won't travel.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Wasps bought it at a value Sisu were not prepared to pay. A value driven down because we were moved to Northampton and hence market value at that time.

And a value far cheaper than that most were demanding SISU pay, where the taxpayers were, apparently, suggesting the city should keep hold of said cultural asset (that offered a return to the taxpayer) unless a vastly higher fee was forthcoming from CCFC/SISU.

 

[Moff]

Can't happen financially and certainly with our profile no fan base. We already know CCFC fans won't travel.

Nor do wasps fans, lets just move like Wasps did to a new town and get some new fans. That seems to me what you are suggesting.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Nor do wasps fans, lets just move like Wasps did to a new town and get some new fans. That seems to me what you are suggesting.

Worked for MK. Especially as they could rely on the occasional huge away following to bump up their attendances.

 

[Nick]

Nor do wasps fans, lets just move like Wasps did to a new town and get some new fans. That seems to me what you are suggesting.

It's the old change something Wasps have done and put CCFC's name instead of Wasps. Then watch people who back Wasps change their views.

 

[dongonzalos]

I didn't say I agree with Wasps did. I said I can see why Wasps did what they did and why the council did what they did.
I don't agree with the RFC allowing Francising I don't understand why they do. I don't rant about it or the NFL or the Ice Hockey doing it. (Neither does anyone else mention the blaze for some reason)
The opportunity for it to happen should never come around. SISU created that opportunity they are the primary reason we don't have a share of the Ricoh IMO not Wasps. So I have no interest in them and show no animosity towards them

 

[italiahorse]

WE need our own stadium, end of, whichever way you dress it. We will always be a pauper to Wasps otherwise, and a slave to SISU.

Our own stadium is a pipe dream at the moment.
So what's best at this moment in time ?

We need to commit long term to the Ricoh with a rolling 10 year deal. (5 Year minimum)
This won't happen until the legals are out the way.

In parallel Sisu can show us how a new stadium will be better and if it is that becomes the better plan then we can get behind it.

I think at the moment a few people still see the Ricoh as a possibility and hence the dislike of Wasps and anybody associated with them.
I think some delusional people even believe the JR will result in CCFC being given the stadium.

We will certainly be a pauper to Wasps if we don't commit to the Ricoh and we can certainly expect to be slaves to Sisu for years to come because of the way they have tied the debt up on the club.

 

[italiahorse]

And a value far cheaper than that most were demanding SISU pay, where the taxpayers were, apparently, suggesting the city should keep hold of said cultural asset (that offered a return to the taxpayer) unless a vastly higher fee was forthcoming from CCFC/SISU.

The Sisu process was missing some essential items. An actual offer and sensible negotiations with CCC/Higgs to get it at the market value.

Once they adopted the take it or leave it attitude CCC were never going to sell it to them.
Whether it was a satisfying victory for them when Wasps came along you can make your own mind up on that one.

 

[Broken Hearted Sky Blue]

It is different because it is permanent and it was to try and aim at a bigger fanbase with no regard to their current fans. It is worse.

Surely people would say it was wrong if they moved to Wyken or Binley?

It is just strange how so many who are so vocal about Wasps now, were so vocal about Sixfields. Very strange.

Like who?

 

[Nick]

Like who?

Who on here has (since Wasps moved) openly said they like the move and have been to watch them? Without bringing everything back up, didn't some of the trust board say how much they enjoyed a Wasps match? 1 example...