Coventry Evening Telegraph. (9 Viewers)

[Nick]

Why is that I wonder? Who keeps all these wasps threads going Oh and who is it that always brings them up in each thread?

They go on and on because people who don't give a shit about Wasps don't like anything bad being said about them...

I can understand if people are saying "we lost today, the other team scored 4 because of Wasps" then it is silly. However, when it is things like "Wasps shouldn't move, it is wrong" and city fans are saying "no, it is ok for them to move because it is Rugby, it is good they moved" then that is why things drag on.

 

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[letsallsingtogether]

They go on and on because people who don't give a shit about Wasps don't like anything bad being said about them...

I can understand if people are saying "we lost today, the other team scored 4 because of Wasps" then it is silly. However, when it is things like "Wasps shouldn't move, it is wrong" and city fans are saying "no, it is ok for them to move because it is Rugby, it is good they moved" then that is why things drag on.

This thread started off as a slating for a buisiness that is struggling putting advertising on there back page.

TBF to Wasps whether you like them or not it is getting the right reaction and getting them noticed.
All I am saying is why don't we do the same.
When there are special offers on they email STH who are already going need to attract New blood within our supporter base.
Get the back page and knock the Wasps off it.
PUSB

 

[skybluetony176]

Who is attacking people who hold SISU to account? Who has ever said you can't? I think the fact people are so quick to defend and justify Wasps and the council is why you get more about them. Whereas nobody is going all out like that with SISU.

Who has ever tried to blame Wasps / The Council for things that are clearly not their fault?

Are there people on here saying SISU have done nothing wrong like there are the council / wasps?

Are other fans really laughing at people who look at the bigger picture? I spoke to a Blackpool fan who was very surprised at how well the Wasps move had gone down.

For another person who doesn't care about Wasps or know much about them, only SISU. You also spend a lot of time posting on threads about them? If somebody says something like "Wasps were wrong to move here" then there are quite a lot of people who are quick to jump in to justify it. I can only really remember RFC ever saying Sixfields was good, and they don't count.

People are saying "It has happened, move on" but still hold Sixfields against SISU? Should we move on from Wasps moving etc, council lying because it is the past but still get angry Scott Dann was sold?

This site is for people to have opinions. Nothing more, or nothing less.

Nobody has ever said anybody but SISU have they? Has anybody ever said everything is 100% the council and 0% SISU like people do about the Council?

Somebody can be annoyed with the council for something, Wasps for something else and then SISU for something else. The bit where people seem to struggle is when people aren't just aimlessly shouting SISU OUT about everything and anything.

Close the wasps sub forum then and delete any posts specifically about wasps and wasps only and have no directly effect on the club then. I won't miss it, I'll be happy if no mention of Wasps ever happen on this site. I'd say do a poll on it but you already did that. I guess the results didn't go the way you wanted so it quietly got swept under the carpet.

When I post on the wasps threads it's usually when people start going on about something and desperately trying to read it as a sign of failure to point out they're wrong. The same people are usually wrong on all things Wasps whether that be predicting the oversubscribed bond issue that's still holding it's value would be a huge failure and then shouting down anyone who disagreed, to trying to play down the significance of the the summer concerts again shouting down anyone pointing out the obvious significance only for the people doing the shouting down to then claim that CCFC need access to over revenue streams so they are significant contradicting the argument that they've used to shout down people with or the most recent salivating over the predicted drop in attendances and shouting down anyone who points out that in the big scheme of things the current attendances are actually not that important as other revenue streams are available something recently proved by they're interim accounts to be correct. Funny that you and the rest of them aren't all other that particular wasps thread.

Talking of wasps threads why is this one on the CCFC section? Shouldn't you have moved it to the wasps sub forum by now? It clearly isn't about CCFC in any shape way or form m

 

[SkyblueBazza]

Whilst I agree buisness is buisness, I cant ever recall the Telegraph having a huge back page advertisment before.

This is the same paper that rightly made a huge song and dance about CCFC leaving the City and getting them back home, and yet seem to take the polar opposite view with wasps?

I look foward to their section on CRFC, you know like the one they have done for Wasps, but it will never happen, as why support your local Rugby Club when you can jump on the more glamorous bandwagon and forget the local roots of the City your rag is meant to cover.

Different league though isn't it?

That's why Liverpool with 2 premiership clubs gets much more National newspaper coverage coverage than Bristol...or Nottingham. Why Wolves gets much more than Walsall. It only becomes an issue when locally Liverpool get much more local coverage than Everton & so on. Then it is not fair.
At present, Coventry is graced with a top class Rugby club...not two...& a third rate football club.
Reality bites!

...onwards & upwards PUSB

 

[Nick]

Close the wasps sub forum then and delete any posts specifically about wasps and wasps only and have no directly effect on the club then. I won't miss it, I'll be happy if no mention of Wasps ever happen on this site. I'd say do a poll on it but you already did that. I guess the results didn't go the way you wanted so it quietly got swept under the carpet.

When I post on the wasps threads it's usually when people start going on about something and desperately trying to read it as a sign of failure to point out they're wrong. The same people are usually wrong on all things Wasps whether that be predicting the oversubscribed bond issue that's still holding it's value would be a huge failure and then shouting down anyone who disagreed, to trying to play down the significance of the the summer concerts again shouting down anyone pointing out the obvious significance only for the people doing the shouting down to then claim that CCFC need access to over revenue streams so they are significant contradicting the argument that they've used to shout down people with or the most recent salivating over the predicted drop in attendances and shouting down anyone who points out that in the big scheme of things the current attendances are actually not that important as other revenue streams are available something recently proved by they're interim accounts to be correct. Funny that you and the rest of them aren't all other that particular wasps thread.

Talking of wasps threads why is this one on the CCFC section? Shouldn't you have moved it to the wasps sub forum by now? It clearly isn't about CCFC in any shape way or form m

I don't think I have ever tried to say they are failing, I would comment on attendance as a sign of popularity but wouldn't class it as failing.

I think the issue some point out is that if they are doing really well and turning over shed loads of money, then surely it was not sold for enough and the tax payer has been done over?

Why do you post on Wasps threads if you aren't bothered? I'm not bothered about F1 or Cheltenham, so I haven't posted.

Moving now...

 

[Nick]

Different league though isn't it?

That's why Liverpool with 2 premiership clubs gets much more National newspaper coverage coverage than Bristol...or Nottingham. Why Wolves gets much more than Walsall. It only becomes an issue when locally Liverpool get much more local coverage than Everton & so on. Then it is not fair.
At present, Coventry is graced with a top class Rugby club...not two...& a third rate football club.
Reality bites!

...onwards & upwards PUSB

So why didn't we get more than Northampton when we graced them?

 

[Nick]

This thread started off as a slating for a buisiness that is struggling putting advertising on there back page.

TBF to Wasps whether you like them or not it is getting the right reaction and getting them noticed.
All I am saying is why don't we do the same.
When there are special offers on they email STH who are already going need to attract New blood within our supporter base.
Get the back page and knock the Wasps off it.
PUSB

I've never argued with the fact our PR is dog shite and that Wasps is decent.

 

[skybluetony176]

I don't think I have ever tried to say they are failing, I would comment on attendance as a sign of popularity but wouldn't class it as failing.

I think the issue some point out is that if they are doing really well and turning over shed loads of money, then surely it was not sold for enough and the tax payer has been done over?

Why do you post on Wasps threads if you aren't bothered? I'm not bothered about F1 or Cheltenham, so I haven't posted.

Moving now...

I wouldn't argue that it was sold on the cheap but then I wasn't one of the ones saying it was a worthless white elephant in the first place so my position hasn't changed on that score. Not saying you personally are either but pretty much everyone who did say it was a worthless white elephant is now complaining it was undersold. Often using the value in the accounts as a basis for this opinion rather than their previous opinion before wasps showed up despite it being explained numerous times by OSB what the figure actually represents and not it's sale value. Ironically the same posters who don't seem to want to heed OSB's advice are also usually the ones who mock Italia for failing to understand the management fees (again something regularly explained by OSB) but are basically doing the same thing over ACL's accounts valuation. This must be some of the hypocrisy you talk about.

I post to address some of the inaccurate nonsense posted. Of you're going to inform an opinion at least do it on fact not supposition and nonsense plus mainly to draw attention back on the club to posters who spend 90% of their time and energy on wasps when the tea issues are at CCFC and they spend little to no time on that. Strange behaviour for CCFC fans on a CCFC forum if you ask me.

What was the result of the poll again? Remind me?

 

[Nick]

I wouldn't argue that it was sold on the cheap but then I wasn't one of the ones saying it was a worthless white elephant in the first place so my position hasn't changed on that score. Not saying you personally are either but pretty much everyone who did say it was a worthless white elephant is now complaining it was undersold. Often using the value in the accounts as a basis for this opinion rather than their previous opinion before wasps showed up despite it being explained numerous times by OSB what the figure actually represents and not it's sale value. Ironically the same posters who don't seem to want to heed OSB's advice are also usually the ones who mock Italia for failing to understand the management fees (again something regularly explained by OSB) but are basically doing the same thing over ACL's accounts valuation. This must be some of the hypocrisy you talk about.

I post to address some of the inaccurate nonsense posted. Of you're going to inform an opinion at least do it on fact not supposition and nonsense plus mainly to draw attention back on the club to posters who spend 90% of their time and energy on wasps when the tea issues are at CCFC and they spend little to no time on that. Strange behaviour for CCFC fans on a CCFC forum if you ask me.

What was the result of the poll again? Remind me?

The result was that people didn't really understand it, and people who wanted to vote couldn't because they couldn't do it on mobiles. When explained it would be to move any Wasps talk out of the main stuff to keep it clear they preferred that.

People bang on about CCFC's derogitary offers to higgs, when they were about the same as what Wasps actually paid. The £40m in the bonds is for the lease, not the sale value isn't it which I think you are referring to? Again, you can maybe blame the CET for misinforming.

 

[Covstu]

wow 43 pages of the same regurgitated arguments people. SISU aren't going anywhere nor are Wasps, its the sad truth but we need to deal with it. We just need to focus on the football and back the team to get into the playoffs, this has to be the focus of all fans rather than who's camp you sit in.

 

[shmmeee]

This thread is fucking hilarious.

 

[letsallsingtogether]

I've never argued with the fact our PR is dog shite and that Wasps is decent.

Fair enough...
And thank God you moved this thread.
Back to the City threads now☺

 

[skybluetony176]

The result was that people didn't really understand it, and people who wanted to vote couldn't because they couldn't do it on mobiles. When explained it would be to move any Wasps talk out of the main stuff to keep it clear they preferred that.

People bang on about CCFC's derogitary offers to higgs, when they were about the same as what Wasps actually paid. The £40m in the bonds is for the lease, not the sale value isn't it which I think you are referring to? Again, you can maybe blame the CET for misinforming.

Ha ha. Blame the CT. Perhaps we should blame them for not explaining the management fees either

In all seriousness I've lost count the number of times OSB has explained the accounts valuation as apposed to the sale price when it gets repeated as a basis for the undersold argument, probably as often as it's been explained to Italia about the management fees. It's selective memory of facts that causes both to get regurgitated on here not something that the CT should have done. Both have been explained time and time again and people who tell me I'm an idiot don't seem to be able to understand it. Doesn't say much for them if I'm an idiot and understand it when they apparently don't.

The reason I think that the Ricoh was sold on the cheap and SISU continually undervalued it is because I can see the potential. I'm gutted we don't own it and I'm even more gutted that I can't see the prospect of that ever happening simply because I could see the value of it in the first place to the club. The security to the club was easily worth what Wasps paid on it's own and that's before you consider asset value of ACL and that's because I look at it from the prospective of a fan not someone who's only concern is their investors return. Somewhere between the formula price and what wasps ended up paying would have been fair to all if it included the same lease extension even with the loan in place IMO. Where in that window would the final price have fell? Who knows, that's what negotiations are for. Problem is if you're not willing to get into negotiations no one should be surprised that you come out with nothing. The council said they'd listen to any serious offer, JS even had AL come to see her. Yet no offer or a starting point for negotiations. There's only ever going to be one party accountable in that scenario for my money. If SISU were ever serious about buying it they well and truly missed the opportunity. You can take a horse to water but you can't make it drink. Never a truer word said.

 

[Moff]

What you fail to notice that it is our job as supporters to hold SISU as custodians of the club accountable on any forum available to us. The SCG is clearly governed at the top by SISU yes men who are more interested in attacking the largest supporters group than challenging SISU's decision making and how that has and continues to effect the club.

If as fans we fail to voice our very real fears about what's happened and continues to happen to the club on any media possible we are failing the club we support. Whether that media be fans forum, newspaper websites, facebook, twitter or anywhere else you can do that publicly. Why give SISU places to hide? They haven't earned that right so why gift it to them?

I dont fail to notice anything Tony, if you looked at previous posts I had spoken about SISU and the damage they have done to our club.

If you want to continually bang on about SISU you go for it, I am tired of it, and if you think that makes you a better fan in your mind then well done you.

You will probably decry this, but what difference does it make? we have done it on this forum for years and they are still here, so I would rather listen to ideas on how to get rid of them, than just pages and pages of we hate sisu. We all want them gone, but they are not going anywhere at present.

 

[skybluetony176]

I dont fail to notice anything Tony, if you looked at previous posts I had spoken about SISU and the damage they have done to our club.

If you want to continually bang on about SISU you go for it, I am tired of it, and if you think that makes you a better fan in your mind then well done you.

You will probably decry this, but what difference does it make? we have done it on this forum for years and they are still here, so I would rather listen to ideas on how to get rid of them, than just pages and pages of we hate sisu. We all want them gone, but they are not going anywhere at present.

I don't think it makes me a better anything. I just don't understand the mentality of people who constantly bang a big drum about wasps, ccc, ct but when it comes to SISU barely a whisper.

You say it doesn't change anything and in truth I guess we'll never really know. Certainly chanting SISU out in every post isn't going to achieve anything but I'm sure someone from the club looks in on this site from time to time if for no other reason than to laugh at my posts but I do also offer constructive criticism from time to time and one of the things I was banging on about last season and getting berated for saying it on here actually happened. I'm not saying it was my idea and they only done it because I told them to but we do now have a small club shop in one of the kiosks in the ground instead of the embarrassing car boot style pasting tables.

I don't think it was an idea that came through the SCG and who knows maybe they did come up with the idea themselves but I wasn't the only one suggesting that the club should approach our landlords about renting a kiosk for the club shop. An idea that you would think would be universally welcomed and supported by any sensible minded CCFC fan but no. The posters of the mentality I'm talking about rather than back and get on board with a perfectly sensible idea as a solution to an obvious problem took it as an opportunity to not only berate those CCFC fans that dare say it publicly but also couldn't resist the opportunity to invent an imaginary outcome so they can get angry with wasps. The regular reply I got from one or two after daring to suggest such a terrible thing regardless of what subject matter I was posting about was "all you have to do is ask wasps and they'll provide".

That's the mentality I'm talking about. It's pathetic and counter intuitive to trying to improve CCFC but the temptation to try and belittle myself and others who also suggested it and invent an imaginary outcome to be even more angry at wasps was more important to some.

Ask was all I was saying. If they gave a flat no then fair enough get as angry as you like. I'd probably have been joining them but not of the back of an imaginary outcome based on never even asking. Seriously how old would you have to be to act like that?

 

[Moff]

I don't think it makes me a better anything. I just don't understand the mentality of people who constantly bang a big drum about wasps, ccc, ct and basically anyone other than SISU but when they do say anything it's barely a whisper.

You say it doesn't change anything and in truth I guess we'll never really know. Certainly chanting SISU out in every post isn't going to achieve anything but I'm sure someone from the club looks in on this site from time to time if for no other reason than to laugh at my posts but I do also offer constructive criticism from time to time and one of the things I was banging on about last season and getting berated for saying it on here actually happened. I'm not saying it was my idea and they only done it because I told them to but we do now have a small club shop in one of the kiosks in the ground instead of the embarrassing car boot style pasting tables.

I don't think it was an idea that came through the SCG and who knows maybe they did come up with the idea themselves but I wasn't the only one suggesting that the club should approach our landlords about renting a kiosk for the club shop. An idea that you would think would be universally welcomed and supported by any sensible minded CCFC fan but no. The posters of the mentality I'm talking about rather than back and get on board with a perfectly sensible idea as a solution to an obvious problem took it as an opportunity to not only berate those CCFC fans that dare say it publicly but also couldn't resist the opportunity to invent an imaginary outcome so they can get angry with wasps. The regular reply I got from one or two after daring to suggest such a terrible thing regardless of what subject matter I was posting about was "all you have to do is ask wasps and they'll provide".

That's the mentality I'm talking about. It's pathetic and counter intuitive to trying to improve CCFC but the temptation to try and belittle myself and others who also suggested it and invent an imaginary outcome to be even more angry at wasps was more important to some.

Ask was all I was saying. If they gave a flat no then fair enough get as angry as you like. I'd probably have been joining them but not of the back of an imaginary outcome based on never even asking. Seriously how old would you have to be to act like that?

Fair points in there Tony. I know we disagree on the odd occasion, but we also agree many times, and I guess I am just ground down by it all, as I honestly cant see how we rid ourselves of SISU.

I long for the days when we just concentrate on the football, not onwership, CCC, wasps etc, but it seems like groundhog day.

I understand where you are coming from, and although personally I probably feel a little more aggrieved at other parties, we are singing the same tune.

(I still dont like Wasps though but that is from being a local rugby fan, and not from the Ricoh ownership front.....but I would love SISU to go and Wasps to follow on afterwards.)

 

[oldfiver]

Ha ha. Blame the CT. Perhaps we should blame them for not explaining the management fees either



The reason I think that the Ricoh was sold on the cheap and SISU continually undervalued it is because I can see the potential.

Surely the point here is as a Public Owned Asset it should not have been sold "on the cheap". However as recently admitted, the Council had no professional valuations at either point of the original sale or the worth of the lease extension so they did not know if cheap or not.

 

[skybluetony176]

Fair points in there Tony. I know we disagree on the odd occasion, but we also agree many times, and I guess I am just ground down by it all, as I honestly cant see how we rid ourselves of SISU.

I long for the days when we just concentrate on the football, not onwership, CCC, wasps etc, but it seems like groundhog day.

I understand where you are coming from, and although personally I probably feel a little more aggrieved at other parties, we are singing the same tune.

(I still dont like Wasps though but that is from being a local rugby fan, and not from the Ricoh ownership front.....but I would love SISU to go and Wasps to follow on afterwards.)

For what it's worth I don't like wasps either but unlike yourself it's not because I'm a Rugby fan it's purely down to ownership of the Ricoh and equally I can't see the end game for SISU. They'll have to sell at some point I guess, I just can't see anyone taking on the debt.

 

[skybluetony176]

Surely the point here is as a Public Owned Asset it should not have been sold "on the cheap". However as recently admitted, the Council had no professional valuations at either point of the original sale or the worth of the lease extension so they did not know if cheap or not.

It was the best offer on the table though. It's a real shame that no other party was interest in making a serious offer after serious offers were publicly invited. A bidding war might have erupted and the taxpayer may have got more money in the coffers.

Trouble is when there's only one offer on the table and you need to sell, which they clearly did the only offer is the value at that moment in time.

 

[oldfiver]

It was the best offer on the table though. It's a real shame that no other party was interest in making a serious offer after serious offers were publicly invited. A bidding war might have erupted and the taxpayer may have got more money in the coffers.

Trouble is when there's only one offer on the table and you need to sell, which they clearly did the only offer is the value at that moment in time.

That is not the point - they sold it not knowing its worth. If CCC had told other interested parties they would consider a 250 year lease ( virtually a freehold in property dealing ) would they have got a better deal? Was there an immediate requirement to sell - if so what and why? Even then a professional valuation would be required.

 

[skybluetony176]

That is not the point - they sold it not knowing its worth. If CCC had told other interested parties they would consider a 250 year lease ( virtually a freehold in property dealing ) would they have got a better deal? Was there an immediate requirement to sell - if so what and why? Even then a professional valuation would be required.

What other interested parties? I think we all know why they needed to sell. Let's not pretend otherwise.

 

[oldfiver]

What other interested parties? I think we all know why they needed to sell. Let's not pretend otherwise.

Go on give us your version

 

[skybluetony176]

Go on give us your version

OK, you pretend then.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

So why didn't we get more than Northampton when we graced them?

Because it was an expressed temporary arrangement

...onwards & upwards PUSB

 

[oldfiver]

OK, you pretend then.

OK I will pretend you know!

 

[skybluetony176]

OK I will pretend you know!

And I'll pretend you don't.

 

[Grendel]

And I'll pretend you don't.

I assume your reluctance to answer the question is because you have to answer to back up your throwaway comment.

 

[Nick]

In other news, London Wasps sponsor Coventry City of Culture bid...

 

[oldfiver]

And I'll pretend you don't.

What I think I know may be different to you so I was asking for your version. Which may or may not be correct and possibly different to mine

Simple question really

 

[chiefdave]

In other news, London Wasps sponsor Coventry City of Culture bid...

It would be funny if it wasn't so sad.

 

[Nick]

It would be funny if it wasn't so sad.

Plenty of back scratching...

 

[italiahorse]

In other news, London Wasps sponsor Coventry City of Culture bid...

It would be funny if it wasn't so sad.

.... CCFC need to also use Wasps to get what they want.

 

[italiahorse]

Plenty of back scratching...

Why have they borrowed the Sky blue talk 'hair shirt' ?

 

[Nick]

Why have they borrowed the Sky blue talk 'hair shirt' ?

No, from what I can see they have been shopping in the same hypocritical, drop their morals when they can benefit hat shop as you. Councillor discount.

 

[italiahorse]

No, from what I can see they have been shopping in the same hypocritical, drop their morals when they can benefit hat shop as you. Councillor discount.

So both CCC and Wasps benefit ? Win Win !