So , what are our owners going to do now ............... (8 Viewers)

[Nick]

Don't try f**king squirming your way out of this Nick. No mention whatsoever about the price being for a Season Ticket. I see you conveniently omitted to say anything about the "Crewe" debacle. You and a few others on here deserve each other absolute shithouses :jerkit:

Have a look at what I was quoting / replying to for fuck sake. It isn't hard is it?

Squirming out of what? Somebody said something about season ticket pricing, somebody then replied saying it was too expensive for the average man with kids, I then replied saying the price wasn't too much. It is quite clear.

As you are so angry about the pricing, you would think you would have known which pricing I was referring to anyway?

 

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[oldskyblue58]

A fair point but thats a different argument really. Given our reliance on ticket revenues is proportionally higher than every other club we aren't really in the position to be leading the way on ticket prices.

I know the perceived knowledge is that there is a huge difference between CCFC and the rest of the League about the %age of match day income to total income, but I just wonder how true that is

If you take the CCFC accounts for 2015 at Companies House and compare other L1 teams 2015 that disclose the split then (turnover figs where available are in the brackets) ......

CCFC 37.7% of turnover is match day income (turnover 4.8m)
Wigan 36.8% (6.6m excluding premier league distribution 21.3m)
Millwall 41% (11.2m)
Walsall 28% (turnover 5.6m)
Sheff united no split (turnover 10.8m)
Burton no split (2.7m)
Bradford no details filed
Barnsley no split given (4.8m)
Scunthorpe 35% (2.78m)
Gillingham 34% (4.7m)
Rochdale no details filed
Port Vale no details filed
Peterborough no split given (6.2m)
Southend (2014 figs 2015 not filed yet) 36.5% (3.4m)
Bury 2015 no yet filed and no details available - late
Swindon no details filed
Oldham no details filed
Chesterfield no details filed
shrewsbury no split (4m)
Fleetwood no split given (4.6m)
Blackpool 32.9% ( turnover 8.2m excl 10m premier league) 2014 figs 2015 are late
Doncaster no details filed
Colchester no split given (3.8m)
Crewe 78.5% (3.5m)


No split and no details means that they have used the regs legally and properly not to disclose the information at companies house. There is no clear definition as to what constitutes match day income. Income from player sales is excluded

Conclusions
we are not the worst for relying on match day income. I would suggest that 30 to 35% is the norm in L1 for those that disclose the split - we are not far off that at 37.7%
Our turnover in L1 is not the best but certainly not the worst
Our turnover should in theory mean a larger SCMP budget than most

Final thought as CCFC have decided to franchise the shop and programme sales then the %age of match income to total will rise - due to a club decision

ps (not directed at anyone in particular) I wish people would stop saying we only have ticket income we clearly do have other incomes - infact the majority, 62.3% of it, is other incomes

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

Have a look at what I was quoting / replying to for fuck sake. It isn't hard is it?

Squirming out of what? Somebody said something about season ticket pricing, somebody then replied saying it was too expensive for the average man with kids, I then replied saying the price wasn't too much. It is quite clear.

As you are so angry about the pricing, you would think you would have known which pricing I was referring to anyway?

As you also knew that I was talking about playing Crewe again in the JPT. but arseholes that you and a few others are tried your hardest to take the piss. you give it. but can't take it.

 

[chiefdave]

Why has Crewe in the JPT suddenly come into a discussion about ST prices?

 

[Nick]

Why has Crewe in the JPT suddenly come into a discussion about ST prices?

Because he said something like "We could lose to crewe in the first round of the JPT again" and I said "we havent lost to them in the first round"

Not me saying kids are £25 in reply to something about season tickets, he thought I was saying per game.

In other words, he hasn't got a clue what he is talking about and thought it would be something to use to poke the club with. Not realising that £25 was for the whole season.

 

[Nick]

As you also knew that I was talking about playing Crewe again in the JPT. but arseholes that you and a few others are tried your hardest to take the piss. you give it. but can't take it.

Just at least be correct when you try to "give it" else you just look silly.

It is a bit like having a clue about things you are ranting about.

 

[Macca]

To be fair an increasing number of people are supportive of the owners and happy with what gets served up so it is what it is

 

[oldskyblue58]

Following on from my last post over the years the percentage of match day income to total group turnover at CCFC has been (= turnover)

2015 37.7% (4.8m)
2014 30.3% (3.8m)
2013 45.6% (6.6m)
2012 48.8% (10.8m)
2011 24.5% (16.0m)
2010 30.8% (14.1m)

and yet the club and others have repeatedly hidden behind "the only income we get is matchday income"

Just to clear I am not saying we couldn't do with more income. I just think it has to be some degree been convenient to hide the claim because it masked piss poor performance on and off the pitch

 

[chiefdave]

I know the perceived knowledge is that there is a huge difference between CCFC and the rest of the League about the %age of match day income to total income

What's going on at Crewe??? If you drill down on the figures we must be outperforming a lot of teams in other areas, do the accounts show what areas they are?

What would be interesting to know would be the spend per head other teams get from the revenue streams we don't get. We'd then get a clear picture on the amount we are missing out on.

 

[Nick]

To be fair an increasing number of people are supportive of the owners and happy with what gets served up so it is what it is

Where?

 

[Nick]

Following on from my last post over the years the percentage of match day income to total group turnover at CCFC has been (= turnover)

2015 37.7% (4.8m)
2014 30.3% (3.8m)
2013 45.6% (6.6m)
2012 48.8% (10.8m)
2011 24.5% (16.0m)
2010 30.8% (14.1m)

and yet the club and others have repeatedly hidden behind "the only income we get is matchday income"

Just to clear I am not saying we couldn't do with more income. I just think it has to be some degree been convenient to hide the claim because it masked piss poor performance on and off the pitch

Is there anything to show profit rather than turnover?

I guess it's hard to say exactly what is covered isn't it? Corporate, pitch advertising, match advertising, corner advertising (all that stuff). Then now the % that we get of food / parking revenue.

You would expect it to go up with the % of food etc now wouldn't you?

 

[oldskyblue58]

What's going on at Crewe??? If you drill down on the figures we must be outperforming a lot of teams in other areas, do the accounts show what areas they are?

What would be interesting to know would be the spend per head other teams get from the revenue streams we don't get. We'd then get a clear picture on the amount we are missing out on.

very few go into any great detail CD so it isn't going to be a helpful exercise. From what I have seen the ones that do don't really show massive sums for F&B or hospitality, they will of course have ground sponsorship but it isn't massive figures (on the otherside of that they have costs we don't).

in 2015 62.3% of our turnover was commercial income that's around 3m - more turnover than some of the clubs have in total!

Crewe. As I said there is no definition of match income or football income so their figure could include FL distributions, it doesn't give details

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

Just at least be correct when you try to "give it" else you just look silly.

It is a bit like having a clue about things you are ranting about.

You're a cheeky fuck. you join in threads without reading what's gone on and been said before but claim to know what you're talking about. I've picked you up on it 3 or 4 times in the past. Your excuse... "I couldn't be arsed to read the previous pages" I think you need to be correct on things before you "Give it" mate. You do it all the fucking time, you take the piss, answer questions with at least 2 questions in reply, and you call me silly? Still no reply to the Crewe shit that you gave out! I'll stick by what I said previously. You and a few others on here are a bunch of shithouses!

 

[Nick]

You're a cheeky fuck. you join in threads without reading what's gone on and been said before but claim to know what you're talking about. I've picked you up on it 3 or 4 times in the past. Your excuse... "I couldn't be arsed to read the previous pages" I think you need to be correct on things before you "Give it" mate. You do it all the fucking time, you take the piss, answer questions with at least 2 questions in reply, and you call me silly? Still no reply to the Crewe shit that you gave out! I'll stick by what I said previously. You and a few others on here are a bunch of shithouses!

Can you point me to where I said "I couldn't be arsed to read the previous pages" as I can't ever recall saying that?

I think the sun is getting to you, it is making you a bit of a diva.

You said something like "We would go out to crewe in the first round again" which quite clearly read that we had gone out to Crewe in the first round.

I am really not sure of your point, as you don't make any sense. It was quite clear what I meant, you are moaning about ticket prices but don't even know what they are.

I don't think I need to call you silly, it just needs a read of your posts where you thought you were going to win the internet because I said kids were £25 (quite clearly in reply to season ticket comments, I quoted Ashdown) and you thought that it was something to have a go at the club about.

As you are so wound up about ticket prices and the club, you would know that kids cost £25 for a season ticket with the JSB membership.

 

[letsallsingtogether]

You're a cheeky fuck. you join in threads without reading what's gone on and been said before but claim to know what you're talking about. I've picked you up on it 3 or 4 times in the past. Your excuse... "I couldn't be arsed to read the previous pages" I think you need to be correct on things before you "Give it" mate. You do it all the fucking time, you take the piss, answer questions with at least 2 questions in reply, and you call me silly? Still no reply to the Crewe shit that you gave out! I'll stick by what I said previously. You and a few others on here are a bunch of shithouses!

You forget the favourite saying.......
"Show me a link".
That is always a good one when they are at a loss "show me a link"

 

[Nick]

You forget the favourite saying.......
"Show me a link".
That is always a good one when they are at a loss "show me a link"

Well yeah, when people make stuff up the general reply is to see proof isn't it?

It is hardly at a loss is it? If you make shit up, you get asked for a link, you can't find one...

 

[ajsccfc]

For such an obvious case of crossed wires, it's been dragged out a bit. Kiss and make up you two.

 

[Bob Latchford]

Think what Bob is getting at is, We don't even give the "Kids" a chance to mature in the first team squad before our arsehole owners sell 'em for peanuts, as opposed to getting possibly 10 times more by keeping hold for a while longer

Spot on Kid !

 

[chiefdave]

Thats more down to the Elite Player Performance Plan than the club isn't it? Allows 'big' clubs to come in and cherry pick the talent at little cost.

And then you've got players like Wilson and Maddison being offered big moves having played very little first team football.

No club in L1 is in a position to refuse those players moves to a higher level so what's the solution?

 

[letsallsingtogether]

You're a cheeky fuck. you join in threads without reading what's gone on and been said before but claim to know what you're talking about. I've picked you up on it 3 or 4 times in the past. Your excuse... "I couldn't be

Well yeah, when people make stuff up the general reply is to see proof isn't it?

It is hardly at a loss is it? If you make shit up, you get asked for a link, you can't find one...

No just a cop out used to often.
Who the fuck wants to trawl throu a load of old threads? Bad enough keeping up to date with present ones.

 

[Nick]

You're a cheeky fuck. you join in threads without reading what's gone on and been said before but claim to know what you're talking about. I've picked you up on it 3 or 4 times in the past. Your excuse... "I couldn't be



No just a cop out used to often.
Who the fuck wants to trawl throu a load of old threads? Bad enough keeping up to date with present ones.

How is it a cop out?

Person 1 : "yeah, you said that person x was a twat"
Person 2 : "did I, when?"
Person 1 : "thats just a cop out"

The cop out is not being able to prove stuff after making stuff up, surely?

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

How is it a cop out?

Person 1 : "yeah, you said that person x was a twat"
Person 2 : "did I, when?"
Person 1 : "thats just a cop out"

The cop out is not being able to prove stuff after making stuff up, surely?

No mate, the "Cop out is when you can't be arsed to go back a COUPLE OF PAGES. You're a lazy fuck at the best of times!

 

[Grendel]

No mate, the "Cop out is when you can't be arsed to go back a COUPLE OF PAGES. You're a lazy fuck at the best of times!

Great to see SBK back on the meths and in fine form.

 

[Grendel]

I know the perceived knowledge is that there is a huge difference between CCFC and the rest of the League about the %age of match day income to total income, but I just wonder how true that is

If you take the CCFC accounts for 2015 at Companies House and compare other L1 teams 2015 that disclose the split then (turnover figs where available are in the brackets) ......

CCFC 37.7% of turnover is match day income (turnover 4.8m)
Wigan 36.8% (6.6m excluding premier league distribution 21.3m)
Millwall 41% (11.2m)
Walsall 28% (turnover 5.6m)
Sheff united no split (turnover 10.8m)
Burton no split (2.7m)
Bradford no details filed
Barnsley no split given (4.8m)
Scunthorpe 35% (2.78m)
Gillingham 34% (4.7m)
Rochdale no details filed
Port Vale no details filed
Peterborough no split given (6.2m)
Southend (2014 figs 2015 not filed yet) 36.5% (3.4m)
Bury 2015 no yet filed and no details available - late
Swindon no details filed
Oldham no details filed
Chesterfield no details filed
shrewsbury no split (4m)
Fleetwood no split given (4.6m)
Blackpool 32.9% ( turnover 8.2m excl 10m premier league) 2014 figs 2015 are late
Doncaster no details filed
Colchester no split given (3.8m)
Crewe 78.5% (3.5m)


No split and no details means that they have used the regs legally and properly not to disclose the information at companies house. There is no clear definition as to what constitutes match day income. Income from player sales is excluded

Conclusions
we are not the worst for relying on match day income. I would suggest that 30 to 35% is the norm in L1 for those that disclose the split - we are not far off that at 37.7%
Our turnover in L1 is not the best but certainly not the worst
Our turnover should in theory mean a larger SCMP budget than most

Final thought as CCFC have decided to franchise the shop and programme sales then the %age of match income to total will rise - due to a club decision

ps (not directed at anyone in particular) I wish people would stop saying we only have ticket income we clearly do have other incomes - infact the majority, 62.3% of it, is other incomes

Wouldn't a large proportion of our non match day income be transfer payments and payment clauses from sales like Wilson?

 

[skybluetony176]

Wouldn't a large proportion of our non match day income be transfer payments and payment clauses from sales like Wilson?

That would be the same for every other club to. Not the Wilson money obviously but we're far from the only selling club in league one so if a large portion of our non match day income is from transfer fees we certainly won't be alone in this league.

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

Great to see SBK back on the meths and in fine form.

Not Meths Grenduffy... A large dose of "Don't give a fuck about arseholes like you" pal.

 

[Sick Boy]

Wouldn't a large proportion of our non match day income be transfer payments and payment clauses from sales like Wilson?

It also means that we have probably found our natural level.

 

[dongonzalos]

Middlesborough verses Brighton match
Worth £170 million to the winner.

 

[oldskyblue58]

Wouldn't a large proportion of our non match day income be transfer payments and payment clauses from sales like Wilson?

nope they are disclosed separately and not included in the turnover figure

 

[dongonzalos]

I know turn over isn't the same as budget available for players but there are 6 clubs there with a higher turn over than us.
So I can't see why so many people struggle with the idea that our spend on player budget maybe 6th or less.......

 

[Deleted member 5849]

I know the perceived knowledge is that there is a huge difference between CCFC and the rest of the League about the %age of match day income to total income, but I just wonder how true that is

Out of interest (and as I don't know the answer, it's a genuine question!) how did/do we compare with teams in the division above?

I thought the argument had always been *that* was the division we couldn't compete in as it stood (stands?) but in *this* division we'd be relatively OK.

 

[stupot07]

I know turn over isn't the same as budget available for players but there are 6 clubs there with a higher turn over than us.
So I can't see why so many people struggle with the idea that our spend on player budget maybe 6th or less.......

That's last seasons finances....

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

 

[dongonzalos]

That's last seasons finances.......

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

So are we comparing last years against teams that were in the championship?

 

[stupot07]

So are we comparing last years against teams that were in the championship?

That list does because its the latests accounts, not this years.

You have to factor in 3 clubs in the championship, plus you have others who had decent cup runs (Bradford), we were also in sixfields for 2-3 games and did a lot of ticket offers, and didn't really get thr commercial side goin

You're also ignore that not every club will spend the allowed 60%, so if we are usijg our 60% and others with higher turnovers a have a lower % wage to turnover than it is possible to have a top 6 wage bill.

If you want to discount that then, look how shocking it is that the likes of Fleetwood had a turnover just £200k less than ours despite have only a few thousand fans


Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

 

[chiefdave]

Out of interest (and as I don't know the answer, it's a genuine question!) how did/do we compare with teams in the division above?

I thought the argument had always been *that* was the division we couldn't compete in as it stood (stands?) but in *this* division we'd be relatively OK.