Mean while back in court (9 Viewers)

[dongonzalos]

Basically this. Altough isn't doesn't pain me to say it as I couldn't give a fuck, I just want sexy football and beer.

Brilliant

 

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[martcov]

You then have to remember, it dates back to before SISU. People were saying the council weren't helping before there was a Tim Fisher or Joy Seppalla in town..

'The Stadium would never have been built without some form of council cooperation. SISU smashed any goodwill against the wall and we are where we are. No doubt we now go to Europe. The last time we were in Europe we got hammered by Bayern Munich....

 

[Nick]

Basically this. Altough isn't doesn't pain me to say it as I couldn't give a fuck, I just want sexy football and beer.

Pretty much. I am tempted to just setup a completely different forum for all of the politics side and just limit this to football and football only!

 

[duffer]

The second the verdict popped up, there was a lot of startled people in my open plan office as a I leapt out of my chair whilst cheering and fist pumping, trying to high-five bemused co-workers and then walking around the office, arms aloft then playing a bit of air guitar.


Happy days!!!!!!!!!!

Can someone pop round and move all of the sharp objects away from oucho's desk please. He's going to be very disappointed when he reads what happens next...

 

[martcov]

Remember to get the story without any spin go to Les, he is impartial

Absolutely.

 

[Nick]

'The Stadium would never have been built without some form of council cooperation. SISU smashed any goodwill against the wall and we are where we are. No doubt we now go to Europe. The last time we were in Europe we got hammered by Bayern Munich....

But I was talking before SISU were here...

 

[oldskyblue58]

I thought that as well OSB but JR2 would be about the decision making process and valuation of the Ricoh by CCC, not Wasps isn't it? Wasps paid what they were asked to...that's not something that can be scrutinized. Isn't it the valuation that would be looked at in JR2?

I agree with the sentiment though that continued legal action will no doubt harm 'negotiations/discussions' with Wasps/ACL.

but I think you will find Wasps were linked in to and named on the JR2 papers. As such it is it going to cost them time effort and money to deal with and be represented.

I would guess that SISU would seek to prove collusion between CCC, Wasps & AEHC in artificially deflating valuations and striking a deal that short changed the taxpayer

So we go from ACL being over valued for JR1 to ACL being undervalued for JR2 ....... basically using the same damn figures

 

[olderskyblue]

Remember to get the story without any spin go to Les, he is impartial

I know. Although, if it were any other journo (Simon) you'd suspect the words were sisu's not his.

 

[Nick]

but I think you will find Wasps were linked in to and named on the JR2 papers. As such it is it going to cost them time effort and money to deal with and be represented.

I would guess that SISU would seek to prove collusion between CCC, Wasps & AEHC in artificially deflating valuations and striking a deal that short changed the taxpayer

So we go from ACL being over valued for JR1 to ACL being undervalued for JR2 ....... basically using the same damn figures

Time maybe, they will get their court / legal costs paid..

 

[Captain Dart]

Also, was this expected? As the Observer had the pressing on against wasps article up within minutes!

So Les Reid is effectively an agent of SISU.

SISU claimed in original court case that stadium lease was practically worthless, now they want to claim the lease extension provides value and council sold it cheap.

 

[martcov]

Pretty much. I am tempted to just setup a completely different forum for all of the politics side and just limit this to football and football only!

Football season is over for us. At least we have something to follow til August. Plus we learn lots of new things about the law, hedge funds, investment etc., so we are pretty well educated football fans.

 

[oldskyblue58]

Also, was this expected? As the Observer had the pressing on against wasps article up within minutes!

I think before a judgement is handed down a few days before both sides get to see it to check the facts. Whether or not others got to see it I wouldn't know and couldn't say

 

[dongonzalos]

Think it baffles most people Nick.

The problem they will have in claiming any compensation will be linking the cause and effect. JR1 would seem to be gone so once the club threw the keys in at the Ricoh then they severed any links

Here is another thought. The prospects of doing an improved long term deal at the Ricoh whilst SISU are suing Wasps are ........................ (a) excellent (b) good (c) maybe (d) small chance (e) no chance

If JR1 can't be appealed at the Euro Court.
Then wouldn't JR1 negate any compensation if they win JR2.
If that's the case would they whole purpose of JR2 only be to apply pressure on Wasps.

If JR1 doesn't get appealed I can see JR2 getting shelved.
It's too risky in terms of how it affects all other negotiations for very little pay off at the end.
I get the JR1 angle but 2 is only worth it if 1 has merit.
Wasps are spending more and more they are not showing signs of a struggle at all.

 

[Nick]

I think before a judgement is handed down a few days before both sides get to see it to check the facts. Whether or not others got to see it I wouldn't know and couldn't say

It is a bit strange, there were articles lined up and videos so they must have known the outcome.

Would that be against court rules?

 

[oldskyblue58]

Time maybe, they will get their court / legal costs paid..

only if they win and the judge says so at some point in the future (maybe years) In the mean time they have to fund the legal team, provide evidence and statements, attend court etc ....... it all costs

 

[Nick]

They must have known, Simon has managed to get back to the office from London and make a video about it.

Or they had different things lined up depending on the outcome to try and be the 1st?

 

[oldskyblue58]

so in the eyes of 4 top judges (3 today 1 before) CCC acted legally in providing the loan and protecting its asset.

 

[armybike]

so in the eyes of 4 top judges (3 today 1 before) CCC acted legally in providing the loan and protecting its asset.

That's the long and short of it, but I'm sure this thread will rumble on..........

 

[dongonzalos]

so in the eyes of 4 top judges (3 today 1 before) CCC acted legally in providing the loan and protecting its asset.

Was there one before that as well who didn't think it should be a JR?
I think the one before this one advised SISU to not waste their money as well.

Imagine if at the end of this SISU achieve nothing

JR/1 and appeals
JR/2 and appeals
Ethics hearing
Battle against Higgs.

What will be the combined legal cost and costs of employee time on all of this!!!
And paying other people's costs.

Were they been asked to pay out 10-12 million for all of ACL and take in a 14 million loan.

It ended up going for 4-6 million less.

Would these cost be near that 4-6 million.

Alternatively what would these costs do to a player budget
Would have won the league by about 20 points last season!!!

 

[skybluetony176]

So, I think this has been to court now a total of six times with an aggregate score of 4-2 in the favour of the council. Can we now finally agree that the council did nothing wrong in bailing out ACL and the fact that we don't own the Ricoh or any part of it is largely down to the failed policies of a hedge fund? Or are we going for best of 9?

You could argue that it was time to move on after the original judgment but please can we all finally agree it's time to move on if nothing else

 

[fernandopartridge]

protecting its asset.

Is that the key to JR2 - the defence of protecting an asset is contradicted by selling it to Wasps.

 

[Captain Dart]

So, I think this has been to court now a total of six times with an aggregate score of 4-2 in the favour of the council. Can we now finally agree that the council did nothing wrong in bailing out ACL and the fact that we don't own the Ricoh or any part of it is largely down to the failed policies of a hedge fund? Or are we going for best of 9?

You could argue that it was time to move on after the original judgment but please can we all finally agree it's time to move on if nothing else

No chance, part of SISU response in Reid's article

There are significant public policy reasons why this matter should be reviewed by the Supreme Court.

Part of Council response in same article.

“We urge SISU to abandon further costly, lengthy and pointless legal proceedings and focus on working with key partners to develop a sustainable business plan for the future which puts the football club and its success at its heart.”

 

[italiahorse]

You then have to remember, it dates back to before SISU. People were saying the council weren't helping before there was a Tim Fisher or Joy Seppalla in town..

Was it not the council who completed the stadium and also gave CCFC half of ACL at the start ?
Pre SISU management cocked up big time by messing up on stadium finance including selling of their share in ACL.

But Sisu bought into the situation either 'knowingly' or due to incompetence.

I have a nigglng suspicion that pulling CCFC out of the Ricoh and stressing ACL was always the plan.
I do however think ACL being inflexible on initial CCFC high rent and access to revenues was a key factor in events.
CCC and SISU fall out then escalated into a personal battle that neither would back down and from todays result, CCC always had the upper hand.

 

[mrtrench]

Can we now finally agree that the council did nothing wrong in bailing out ACL and the fact that we don't own the Ricoh or any part of it is largely down to the failed policies of a hedge fund?

Not until all options for appeal are exhausted I imagine.

 

[Skyblueweeman]

Wasps are spending more and more they are not showing signs of a struggle at all.

They'll need quite a bit of success to cover the £32m they owe in a few years time.

 

[italiahorse]

They'll need quite a bit of success to cover the £32m they owe in a few years time.

..... or they just do another one to pay off the previous one.

 

[skybluetony176]

No chance, part of SISU response in Reid's article


Part of Council response in same article.

Best out of 9 it is then. SISU's legal team best start practicing penalties.

 

[dongonzalos]

They'll need quite a bit of success to cover the £32m they owe in a few years time.

They don't seem concerned about that though they just keep spending.
Applying pressure on someone by making them spend when that's the last thing they seem bothered about. Seems a bit pointless to me. Especially if you irritate them. Then sit down with them and say can you give us more access to revenues in exchange for a long term commitment ( the only option for CCFC IMO)

 

[skybluetony176]

Not until all options for appeal are exhausted I imagine.

Why? Everytime ALL the details (not just the argument for appeal) sits in front of judges whether that be one on his own or a panel of 3 it falls on it's arse.

I struggle to see how anyone can't accept the judgements.

 

[dongonzalos]

Best out of 9 it is then. SISU's legal team best start practicing penalties.

They are doing JR2 and exploring appeals in Europe.

I will like them to ditch the lot form a partnership with wasps.
Use Wasps influence to push the council on areas such as transport.
I like the football side of things ATM (granted it is divusion3)
This uncertainty is the only thing left to resolve!!!

 

[Nick]

Why? Everytime ALL the details (not just the argument for appeal) sits in front of judges whether that be one on his own or a panel of 3 it falls on it's arse.

I struggle to see how anyone can't accept the judgements.

I just can't see what they think somebody else will see different.

Can understand appealing, but there is a point.

If they were appealing and the club would be handed the Ricoh I'd say fight it all the way, but I just can't see the point in it.

 

[Nick]

Use Wasps influence to push the council on areas such as transport.

How depressing is that? Having to try and use Wasps to help things for the club.

 

[ajsccfc]

Are there any actual club ramifications involved with this news? What does any of this actually mean for those of us who don't care about legal battles or popping the champers when one set of corporate scumbags beats another?

 

[Nick]

Are there any actual club ramifications involved with this news? What does any of this actually mean for those of us who don't care about legal battles or popping the champers when one set of corporate scumbags beats another?

I am not sure there is / are any.

 

[duffer]

..... or they just do another one to pay off the previous one.

Sort of like taking out a credit card to pay your mortgage. It's possible, but it wouldn't suggest a great business model to me as a potential investor.