SISU/ARVO appeal turned down (14 Viewers)

[sky blue john]

Come on Sisu talk is cheap I think we have all been patient long enough lets see some action !!
You may have fooled Grendel and gang but not me !
And i don't mean court action...

 

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[skyblueinBaku]

Its not the start capacity that's the problem its the end capacity !!

The start capacity is a problem, Italia. As has been pointed out already, after the allocation of tickets for away supporters and a separation area, a 15k stadium could only hold about 13k home fans (assuming no safe standing area). If that were the case, if we had a good run next season, there would be CCFC fans unable to get in.

 

[chiefdave]

Why is it everybody's fault except for CCFC?.
We don't own Higgs, we don't want to sign a long term deal because we building our own facilities, but now we do want a long term deal, so Higgs should stop immediately looking for an alternative solution.

Any indication whether CCFC have asked for a long term deal or just want to continue forever on the 12 months rolling contract ?

This is the type of thing that frustrates me. Why do we so often see post like this (not to single you two out) rather than peoples primary concern being the future of the club. I support CCFC, not SISU, Higgs, CCC, Wasps, CSF, ACL or anyone else. I want what is best for the club. There is an academy facility in place that was built for the club, the club wants to continue to use it. That should be the end of the discussion for us as CCFC fans.

 

[Kingokings204]

The start capacity is a problem, Italia. As has been pointed out already, after the allocation of tickets for away supporters and a separation area, a 15k stadium could only hold about 13k home fans (assuming no safe standing area). If that were the case, if we had a good run next season, there would be CCFC fans unable to get in.

Exactly and more bizarre to me is we get 100% of ticket revenue so we are actually saying we want a smaller stadium and turn people away over the one revenue the club actually controls and gets 100% to.
Beggars belief to me.

Not just that but while I'm at it everyone keeps mentioning Bournemouth in the PL with 11k stadium as if it's justification for us. That's utter nonsense. Point A is Bournemouth ran at huge losses to get to the PL and point B is would Bournemouth want a bigger stadium right now with Ricoh facilities. Of course they would.

 

[Nick]

This is the type of thing that frustrates me. Why do we so often see post like this (not to single you two out) rather than peoples primary concern being the future of the club. I support CCFC, not SISU, Higgs, CCC, Wasps, CSF, ACL or anyone else. I want what is best for the club. There is an academy facility in place that was built for the club, the club wants to continue to use it. That should be the end of the discussion for us as CCFC fans.

Hence the pr jobs... Means people support stadium management companies.

Some will just see it as ammo at sisu whether higgs are being dicks or not

 

[skybluetony176]

This is the type of thing that frustrates me. Why do we so often see post like this (not to single you two out) rather than peoples primary concern being the future of the club. I support CCFC, not SISU, Higgs, CCC, Wasps, CSF, ACL or anyone else. I want what is best for the club. There is an academy facility in place that was built for the club, the club wants to continue to use it. That should be the end of the discussion for us as CCFC fans.

I think people are just pointing out Dave that if the primary concern is that future of the club short term deals of the like that SISU commit to don't offer the club a stable future. If we'd come back to the Higgs with the academy on a ten year even five year deal the academy wouldn't be under the risk it is now. If you factor all the talk of moving on etc. into it can you really blame anyone for looking at long term commitments for the security of their business?

 

[colin101]

This is the type of thing that frustrates me. Why do we so often see post like this (not to single you two out) rather than peoples primary concern being the future of the club. I support CCFC, not SISU, Higgs, CCC, Wasps, CSF, ACL or anyone else. I want what is best for the club. There is an academy facility in place that was built for the club, the club wants to continue to use it. That should be the end of the discussion for us as CCFC fans.

Built for the Club, but not paid for by the club

 

[Nick]

I think people are just pointing out Dave that if the primary concern is that future of the club short term deals of the like that SISU commit to don't offer the club a stable future. If we'd come back to the Higgs with the academy on a ten year even five year deal the academy wouldn't be under the risk it is now. If you factor all the talk of moving on etc. into it can you really blame anyone for looking at long term commitments for the security of their business?

Yes but then are ccfc trying to get a long term deal? The quote from one was from May last year when it was said the club wanted a long term deal.

They put a statement out saying "the door is open" to put it on the club.

If the club can prove they are trying but aren't getting anywhere like ca suggests then people should be hammering the higgs, and ccfc until they prove they are trying.

 

[stupot07]

I think people are just pointing out Dave that if the primary concern is that future of the club short term deals of the like that SISU commit to don't offer the club a stable future. If we'd come back to the Higgs with the academy on a ten year even five year deal the academy wouldn't be under the risk it is now. If you factor all the talk of moving on etc. into it can you really blame anyone for looking at long term commitments for the security of their business?

Of course it would, forget the wasps part, its part of the councils city strategy to have a swimming pool in each area of the city, for the east side of the city the Higgs centre is the only viable option for a 50m pool (to replace the one they are losing in the city centre), the British Swimming Association are standing by with the cash to build it. This would be happening even if we had a 10 year contract.

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[Nick]

Of course it would, forget the wasps part, its part of the councils city strategy to have a swimming pool in each area of the city, for the east side of the city the Higgs centre is the only viable option for a 50m pool, the British Swimming Association are standing by with the cash to build it. This would be happening even if we had a 10 year contract.

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That's the thing, they put out a statement saying the door is open but didn't mention Anderson's other points about wasps and the pool.

All I have heard from people who might know (with a pinch of salt) is that the club aren't getting anywhere with it and that wasps and the pool is a done deal.

 

[Grendel]

Come on Sisu talk is cheap I think we have all been patient long enough lets see some action !!
You may have fooled Grendel and gang but not me !
And i don't mean court action...

Court action may in the end be all we have left as wasps by the look of it only want to deal on terms which the club agree to if it wants to progress.

 

[stupot07]

That's the thing, they put out a statement saying the door is open but didn't mention Anderson's other points about wasps and the pool.

All I have heard from people who might know (with a pinch of salt) is that the club aren't getting anywhere with it and that wasps and the pool is a done deal.

Thats what I've heard from someone who is in the know

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[Captain Dart]

Of course it would, forget the wasps part, its part of the councils city strategy to have a swimming pool in each area of the city, for the east side of the city the Higgs centre is the only viable option for a 50m pool (to replace the one they are losing in the city centre), the British Swimming Association are standing by with the cash to build it. This would be happening even if we had a 10 year contract.

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Or to put it another way it wouldn't be happening if a 10 year contract had been signed 2 years ago. SISU's bluff got called! They are the worst poker players I know.

 

[Nick]

Or to put it another way it wouldn't be happening if a 10 year contract had been signed 2 years ago. SISU's bluff got called! They are the worst poker players I know.

Wouldn't it?

 

[italiahorse]

You could always stand in your car park and reminisce "Ah, I remember when this place was full of cars..."

Don't open for football. Wasps and concerts only.

 

[stupot07]

Or to put it another way it wouldn't be happening if a 10 year contract had been signed 2 years ago. SISU's bluff got called!

No, it would be happening, there would be a break out clause, and the council would still want a 50m pool in the city. This isn't about the higgs trustx this is about a bout he sports foundation, Warwickshire sports trust (or whatever they are called) and the city councils sports strategy team wanting to replace the 50m city centre pool and having a water space in each area of the city.

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[skyblueinBaku]

Court action may in the end be all we have left as wasps by the look of it only want to deal on terms which the club agree to if it wants to progress.

Just what we need, G. More litigation.:arghh:

 

[italiahorse]

This is the type of thing that frustrates me. Why do we so often see post like this (not to single you two out) rather than peoples primary concern being the future of the club. I support CCFC, not SISU, Higgs, CCC, Wasps, CSF, ACL or anyone else. I want what is best for the club. There is an academy facility in place that was built for the club, the club wants to continue to use it. That should be the end of the discussion for us as CCFC fans.

I'm trying to explain why we may not be considered in future plans.
We keep crying wolf and expect organisations to wait for us to change our minds.
First CCC on the Ricoh (not coming back, building our own stadium, will come back as freehold owners) now maybe Higgs Centre (already moved out once, building our own facility, only committing for 12 months) and maybe Wasps (building our own stadium, discussing moving to the Butts, won't give us all the 17 points).
If they want use it commit for 10 years not 12 months. Nobody can plan on existing commitment from the club.

 

[italiahorse]

Of course it would, forget the wasps part, its part of the councils city strategy to have a swimming pool in each area of the city, for the east side of the city the Higgs centre is the only viable option for a 50m pool (to replace the one they are losing in the city centre), the British Swimming Association are standing by with the cash to build it. This would be happening even if we had a 10 year contract.

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Surely it would be more economical to build it stand alone than convert an existing lightweight building into a swimming pool?

 

[Nick]

Surely it would be more economical to build it stand alone than convert an existing lightweight building into a swimming pool?

So why aren't they?

 

[Astute]

There is no evidence they wanted it for free.

There is plenty of evidence that they didn't want to pay much for the Ricoh. And they certainly didn't want to take on the debt secured on it. And you like others said it wasn't worth much and the loan was worth much more than the arena. But once Wasps took over the arena and the loan they supposedly got it well under value.

I am happy to listen to different opinions. But not from someone who changes their mind on what is right/wrong, valuations, locations or whatever just so they can carry on with their own agenda.

 

[italiahorse]

So why aren't they?

Who knows until actual planning applications are put in ?

Perhaps they would consider it if CCFC commit and finance things like pitches etc.

 

[Skyblueweeman]

What I expect to happen though is that Sisu won't compromise on the 17 points and so say they are leaving after the 2 year deal.

See, this is why I disagree with your thoughts Italia. Despite putting your point across without throwing your toys out of the pram (good work), I reckon a sane CCFC fan would hope that Wasps would be the ones who would compromise on some/all of the 17 points.

We want what's best for CCFC right? So personally, I'd want Wasps to concede on the 17 points, not SISU, knowing that we'd put forward points that would be beneficial to OUR club, not a nomadic London rugby club.

I can't believe no one else picked you up on this.

Respectfully,

WM

 

[Nick]

See, this is why I disagree with your thoughts Italia. Despite putting your point across without throwing your toys out of the pram (good work), I reckon a sane CCFC fan would hope that Wasps would be the ones who would compromise on some/all of the 17 points.

We want what's best for CCFC right? So personally, I'd want Wasps to concede on the 17 points, not SISU, knowing that we'd put forward points that would be beneficial to OUR club, not a nomadic London rugby club.

I can't believe no one else picked you up on this.

Respectfully,

WM

No I.want.ccfc to pay more! Don't you?

 

[chiefdave]

But why is the current deal now suddenly a problem? Its almost as if its a convenient stick to bash SISU with. When we moved back on the new deal PWKH said "“The Trustees are glad that a satisfactory end has been brought to this chapter in the centre’s life and that they can now continue to build for the future with a greater degree of security”. Does that sound like they were worried the academy was about to move out again or only be there short term?

Then we've got Anderson saying he's been trying to extend the lease. And after spending time trying to do that he's come back and said we don't appear to be part of Higgs plans and that at no point have they given any indication they want us to commit longer term.

Wouldn't common courtesy mean that if you had a tenant on a rolling deal and you were thinking of making a major change that would have a huge negative impact on them you would mention it?

Some of the replies have just proved my point. People would rather point the finger at SISU and / or make excuses for Higgs, the council or Wasps than worrying about the damage being done to the future of our club.

Where is the CT campaign to save the Academy? Where is the trust campaign? Once again we will lose something vital to the future of the club with barely a whimper before people proudly make 'told you so' posts.

 

[skybluetony176]

Of course it would, forget the wasps part, its part of the councils city strategy to have a swimming pool in each area of the city, for the east side of the city the Higgs centre is the only viable option for a 50m pool (to replace the one they are losing in the city centre), the British Swimming Association are standing by with the cash to build it. This would be happening even if we had a 10 year contract.

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Most likely yes. But not until our ten year contract is up. Which gives the club time to make alternative arrangements. We were never going to get time to do anything on a rolling one year commitment. I would have thought that was obvious so why did we return under that agreement if the academy is so important to the long term future of the club?

 

[Grendel]

Most likely yes. But not until our ten year contract is up. Which gives the club time to make alternative arrangements. We were never going to get time to do anything on a rolling one year commitment. I would have thought that was obvious so why did we return under that agreement if the academy is so important to the long term future of the club?

The contract would have had a break clause. The council have acted disgracefully over this but as always the apologists unite.

 

[italiahorse]

See, this is why I disagree with your thoughts Italia. Despite putting your point across without throwing your toys out of the pram (good work), I reckon a sane CCFC fan would hope that Wasps would be the ones who would compromise on some/all of the 17 points.

We want what's best for CCFC right? So personally, I'd want Wasps to concede on the 17 points, not SISU, knowing that we'd put forward points that would be beneficial to OUR club, not a nomadic London rugby club.

I can't believe no one else picked you up on this.

Respectfully,

WM

Its always going to be a compromise. Obviously I would want all 17 points accepted at 100% but to move out because they are all not accepted is silly.
Examples.
CCFC may ask for 100% of the incomes and Wasps say leave it at 50%. Wasps might say yes but CCFC need it buy into them. CCFC might not want to. Who knows ?
CCFC may say they want to have all the hotel rooms left open for corporate not pre booked. Wasps say just book them. CCFC say but we might not need them. Who knows ?
I would say that CCFC may get more yes's if they say they will buy into them. Who knows if the want to.
I could go on but I'm guessing as CCFC have not told us the 17 points and what Wasps answer was.
Yet fans are now blaming Wasps which is exactly what Sisu want. They might be right, but show us !!
It's typical Sisu, we asked but they said no. It's everybody else's fault but theirs.

 

[Astute]

But why is the current deal now suddenly a problem? Its almost as if its a convenient stick to bash SISU with. When we moved back on the new deal PWKH said "“The Trustees are glad that a satisfactory end has been brought to this chapter in the centre’s life and that they can now continue to build for the future with a greater degree of security”. Does that sound like they were worried the academy was about to move out again or only be there short term?

Then we've got Anderson saying he's been trying to extend the lease. And after spending time trying to do that he's come back and said we don't appear to be part of Higgs plans and that at no point have they given any indication they want us to commit longer term.

Wouldn't common courtesy mean that if you had a tenant on a rolling deal and you were thinking of making a major change that would have a huge negative impact on them you would mention it?

Some of the replies have just proved my point. People would rather point the finger at SISU and / or make excuses for Higgs, the council or Wasps than worrying about the damage being done to the future of our club.

Where is the CT campaign to save the Academy? Where is the trust campaign? Once again we will lose something vital to the future of the club with barely a whimper before people proudly make 'told you so' posts.

So SISU put into negotiations 17 points that they want and you wonder why people question the way that SISU negotiate while blaming others.

 

[chiefdave]

Couple of questions spring to mind. How long was the original contract with Higgs? Was the 12 month rolling contract proposed by Higgs or SISU?

 

[italiahorse]

The contract would have had a break clause. The council have acted disgracefully over this but as always the apologists unite.

So again everybody else is wrong because they won't wait for Sisu to make their mind up.
What planet are you on ?

 

[Astute]

The contract would have had a break clause. The council have acted disgracefully over this but as always the apologists unite.

You always ask for proof but can never provide any when stating things like you have here. What a surprise.

 

[chiefdave]

So SISU put into negotiations 17 points that they want and you wonder why people question the way that SISU negotiate while blaming others.

The 17 points is for the Ricoh isn't it? Not the academy.

 

[Grendel]

So again everybody else is wrong because they won't wait for Sisu to make their mind up.
What planet are you on ?

Planet reality. The swimming pool was always happening the minute the 50 metre pool was closed down.

As for the contract wasn't that pre Sisu and wasn't Higgs the initiator of the terms?

 

[Nick]

But why is the current deal now suddenly a problem? Its almost as if its a convenient stick to bash SISU with. When we moved back on the new deal PWKH said "“The Trustees are glad that a satisfactory end has been brought to this chapter in the centre’s life and that they can now continue to build for the future with a greater degree of security”. Does that sound like they were worried the academy was about to move out again or only be there short term?

Then we've got Anderson saying he's been trying to extend the lease. And after spending time trying to do that he's come back and said we don't appear to be part of Higgs plans and that at no point have they given any indication they want us to commit longer term.

Wouldn't common courtesy mean that if you had a tenant on a rolling deal and you were thinking of making a major change that would have a huge negative impact on them you would mention it?

Some of the replies have just proved my point. People would rather point the finger at SISU and / or make excuses for Higgs, the council or Wasps than worrying about the damage being done to the future of our club.

Where is the CT campaign to save the Academy? Where is the trust campaign? Once again we will lose something vital to the future of the club with barely a whimper before people proudly make 'told you so' posts.

In fairness I think the trust are working on something, doubt the telegraph will be bothered.