'We felt it was difficult to conclude on a long-term arrangement' - Wasps pull out of Ricoh Arena ta (38 Viewers)
- Thread starter armybike
- Start date
Astute
Well-Known Member
We all want the legal crap to stop. It won't benefit our club in any way. And it has looked like being a waste of time from the start.
But it certainly looks dodgy to me.
Why even start talks if they don't want to come to an agreement if there are legal cases going on?
Only background noise and it doesn't mean that it will stop an agreement but is given as a reason to stop talks?
And on top of this it looks like our academy is losing it's home at the same time whilst saying a deal might still be done.
All smells like bullshit to me. But I have a feeling that there is more to it than anyone is saying. Is it anything to do with the Butts idea? Things have moved on quickly since it was announced recently. I can see the headline already. 'We offered CCFC a long term agreement but.....'
The end of playing at the Ricoh could be closer than most think. And would it be a surprise if we were turned down for the Butts? I never went to Northampton. But if we are more or less forced out I would follow my football club to where we end up this time. And I would do so for as long as it looks like they are trying to move us back to where we should be.
But it certainly looks dodgy to me.
Why even start talks if they don't want to come to an agreement if there are legal cases going on?
Only background noise and it doesn't mean that it will stop an agreement but is given as a reason to stop talks?
And on top of this it looks like our academy is losing it's home at the same time whilst saying a deal might still be done.
All smells like bullshit to me. But I have a feeling that there is more to it than anyone is saying. Is it anything to do with the Butts idea? Things have moved on quickly since it was announced recently. I can see the headline already. 'We offered CCFC a long term agreement but.....'
The end of playing at the Ricoh could be closer than most think. And would it be a surprise if we were turned down for the Butts? I never went to Northampton. But if we are more or less forced out I would follow my football club to where we end up this time. And I would do so for as long as it looks like they are trying to move us back to where we should be.
Nick
Administrator
Unless something has happened regarding JR2.
Like you say though, they knew about this when they started the negotiations as did the Higgs.
Higgs / Wasps and the council have obviously been working on stuff behind the scenes for the training ground etc.
SkyBlueHomer
New Member
Any idea what the football league's position will be regarding this latest development?
I'd be very suprised if they just sit around waiting for the remaining time to tick down. Hopefully they could intervene & help sort this mess out but what guarantee's do they need/time frame before (worst case scenario) we have our membership withdrawn if we cant prove we have somewhere to play in a couple of season's
I'd be very suprised if they just sit around waiting for the remaining time to tick down. Hopefully they could intervene & help sort this mess out but what guarantee's do they need/time frame before (worst case scenario) we have our membership withdrawn if we cant prove we have somewhere to play in a couple of season's
rupert_bear
Well-Known Member
Not read all the threads but you can't blame Wasps stopping the talks, we all know sisu legislate at the drop of a hat why would someone put themselves in jeopardy of that. Unfortunately Wasps hold the cards and don't make fortunes out of CCFC renting their ground and that unfortunately is what the Ricoh is, their ground.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Wasps have made an offer for the club to stay so legal action is irrelevant.
Astute
Well-Known Member
But what are the chances of new negotiations stopping suddenly because of legal action that has been going for years that they even admit do not involve them?
Ian1779
Well-Known Member
The discussions between CA and Wasps suggested that although they were civil, there were sticking points in regards to what each party wants/is prepared to offer.
It may be that these points are not going to be resolved - so from a Wasps perspective, they have a free pass by dropping in the 'background legal noise' excuse to stop discussions. Even though they are irrelevant to any discussions.
My concern is we get to April next year, nothing is resolved and suddenly we get a take it or leave it offer that is not beneficial to CCFC whatsoever. Then look who's fault it becomes if we don't just accept it.
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
if he's doing his job properly then surely he wants the best option for CCFC?
colin101
Well-Known Member
Clint, I understand he wants the best option, however what is the best option, because how can you negotiate a long term deal at the Ricoh whilst telling everyone your preference is to move to the Butts.
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
Think he's just keeping his options open, but let's be honest, does anyone think SISU are going to invest the cash required to develop the Butts, (or any other site for that matter), I have my doubts.
duffer
Well-Known Member
It's pretty clear to me. The Wasps and the Council are hand in glove here. There's no threat to Wasps from JR1 or JR2 because the Ricoh deal can't be unwound now it's all been paid for, but the Council clearly is at risk (even if it's seemingly a pretty low risk).
Wasps want planning permission and a smooth transition for the Higgs purchase (and publicly funded PR like the City of Rugby bullshit), something the Council can provide. The Council want an end to the legal action, and ideally rid of SISU. Join the dots.
Neither of them give a sh*t about the impact on the club. As skybluetony said elswhere - if you're a CCFC fan, and you're spending money at Wasps, you might want to think again.
NW is bang on - this is bullying, plain and simple.
Wasps want planning permission and a smooth transition for the Higgs purchase (and publicly funded PR like the City of Rugby bullshit), something the Council can provide. The Council want an end to the legal action, and ideally rid of SISU. Join the dots.
Neither of them give a sh*t about the impact on the club. As skybluetony said elswhere - if you're a CCFC fan, and you're spending money at Wasps, you might want to think again.
NW is bang on - this is bullying, plain and simple.
Covstu
Well-Known Member
Surely any party wouldn't continue with such a lengthy legal process unless they think they have a chance of success, the costs alone would dictate this. We all think it's pointless but they clearly don't!
The matters at court were coming to ahead during the timeframe it would appear the negotiations were ongoing between SISU/Wasps and again CCC were not found to be at fault.
However SISU have decided to continue with the matters and progress to a further appeal.
They had the option to draw a line under the matter, but decided only last week to move matters to the Supreme Court.
Wasps have said talks will be put on hold until the court matters are finalised.
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
I want the sale of the Ricoh to Wasps to be scrutinised properly (in the absence of any transparency from the public authority). Therefore, bring on JR2.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
What was the offer?
duffer
Well-Known Member
Why - when it impacts Wasps not a jot? Who are they, you or anyone else to deny someone their right to pursue matters through the court just because your opinion is that they're wrong.
SISU will eventually exhaust all legal avenues, though it may yet take a few more years. It's likely going to cost them a lot of money, but it's their money not ours - and just maybe they will show something illegal from the council in all this (though I have my doubts).
Regardless, the club has to stand on its own two feet in the meantime anyway, unless we can attract a billionaire somehow...
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
I can't see how JR2 is going to do anything. Legally as far as anyone can tell there is no proceedure from central goverment on the selling of a council asset such as a half share in a management company. The only way JR2 would have any legal merit as far as I can tell is if they had sold the freehold as there are proceedure's set on this from central goverment that have to be stricktly adhered to and CCC didn't sell the freehold. Personally I'd be suprised if it ever got to a courtroom for a full hearing. It seems even more half assed than JR1 to me and we all know how that's working out.
Astute
Well-Known Member
What do you mean by scrutinised properly? It has been looked at a few times now by different judges. And nothing unlawful has been found. And we all know that it was immorally wrong already.
SkyBlue_Bear83
Well-Known Member
Obviously we need to have more than one option so no surprise he was talking it up.
It is an interesting question, with talk of a 20-25 year Ricoh deal yesterday before talks broke down is the Ricoh or Butts Anderson's first choice
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
The judges haven't looked at the deal with Wasps. They looked at events that took place during 2012 predominantly.
duffer
Well-Known Member
I'm not aware that the sale of the Ricoh to Wasps was the central plank of JR1, so I don't think that has been fully looked at yet. That's to come in JR2!
Sky Blue Kid
Well-Known Member
Of course SISU are squeaky clean too :angelic:
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
Although, perhaps the Wasps deal was background noise to JR1, why was it that the council got cold feet about the deal to distress the YB mortgage? It never was explained.......
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
I thought that in the original JR the judge ruled that plan to distress the YB mortgage and get a knockdown settlement wasn't feasable as the YB wasn't willing to accept a reduced settlement and this rulling was upheld in the appeal? If thats the case isn't it truer to say that no one got cold feet the plan just failed. Who's to say that SISU didn't then get cold feet after the failure of this plan leaving the council to bail out ACL on their own? All supposition I know but just as likely, possibly more given the way the judgement went.
Astute
Well-Known Member
It has been ruled that there wasn't a problem legally by not selling to SISU as both sides didn't look at making a deal within the timespan. So how could there be a problem with selling to someone else? The owners wanted to sell and the buyer wanted to buy. And being an immoral sale doesn't come into it. SISU acting immorally didn't come into anything.
OK, you'll have to help me out on this one - where have I said SISU shouldn't pursue this through the courts? I think it's utter ridiculous but again, where have I said they shouldn't?
stupot07
Well-Known Member
No, they are not squeeky clean, sisu have done lots of shitty things and continue to do so and have played a major part in all this. But when they have gone our club will be fucked for a long time after this shafting wasps, CCC, higgs and CSF are giving us.
We could 100% focus on blaming sisu and let wasps, CCC, higgs, and CSF contribute in destroying us, or we can challenge them all including sisu.
We should be united on this.
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mattylad
Member
SISU were always going to go as far as the European court, it has always been their only true chance of winning the case they have put forward. I imagine that those on the Wasps side just got fed up/bored with all the crap floating around about the Butts, the Academy etc and have decided to push the situation to a finish. Not nice that the football club is again piggy in the middle and I now await TF to pop out the woodwork with rhetoric of a magical new stadium built on a cloud in the sky with a state of the art training and academy facility on the neighboring cloud all harnessed by Unicorns so they can be dragged over to Northampton at the whim of SISU :-(
Sky Blue Kid
Well-Known Member
Glad you added that little caveat mate
Irish Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Hope he wasn't Irish or Sky Blue. As you probably know, this is the badge for the CCFC supporters club in Ireland.
Yes, I bought it off you guys in 1997. I was proud of it, especially when I was working on an Irish stand...
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
What is very worrying is that Wasps have so much confidence in their position for Armstrong to give an interview like that. Does not bode well for the future of CCFC