The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (79 Viewers)

[jimmyhillsfanclub]

...As there is a bit of a EU debate raging on the footy forum section, I though I'd gauge the current SBT opinion on the EU referendum.

 

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[Otis]

...As there is a bit of a EU debate raging on the footy forum section, I though I'd gauge the current SBT opinion on the EU referendum.

EU referendum? What's that? Never heard of it.

If there is actually one by chance then why haven't I heard anything about it in the press or media?

 

[Terry Gibson's perm]

EU referendum? What's that? Never heard of it.

If there is actually one by chance then why haven't I heard anything about it in the press or media?

What would be on the tv if this wasn't happening getting bored now as I have already x the box on my postal vote.

 

[Steve.B50]

What I find hard to accept is that even if we vote out we still need a change in our law to leave the EU.
Only the politicians can allow us to leave.

 

[Philosoraptor]

Democracy in action. CCC should hang their heads in shame.

 

[CCFC88]

I'm remain, but I dont think it is a decision we should be making. Isnt this why we elect politicians, to make these types of decisions?

 

[Tad]

The only thing I've learnt from all of this is our current politicians are a bunch of weasels who'd struggle to get by in a real job. It's sickening to think that this lot were elected. I'm honestly thinking of just spoiling my vote in the next election - which might be sooner then we think if the tory fraud turns out to be true.

As for the EU...I honestly think it'll fall apart in the next 10 years anyway unless dramatic change happens. The idea of the EU is fine, but in its current state it got some serious issues. Firstly, it's gotten too big, secondly, it's brought in countries that are completely incompatible with the rest of Europe on a social and financial bases which has lead to mass movement of people to the richer countries and weaken those already struggling. The idea of "one set of rules for all" is utterly ridiculous as each country has its own needs, beliefs and values.

We're not alone in losing faith in the EU either. Many people across the EU are starting to take issue with it and as I said, It won't be long till others question the need for the EU in its current form.

 

[mrtrench]

I'm a reluctant leave. I love the idea of a close Europe but some of the rules that the EEC has come up with are very damaging to everyone. They keep meddling with economics trying to impose things onto a region with a huge variation in economic needs. One size doesn't fit all in Europe and whether we leave or not I see the current situation crumbling within 5 years. If us leaving is a catalyst for a reform that would save Italy, Greece, Spain etc. a lot of pain in the interim and hopefully something more functional will come out of the ashes.

 

[Malaka]

I have splinters in my arse from sitting on the fence. I really cant make up my mind, so I will try to judge it as a younger person would and vote accordingly

 

[fernandopartridge]

What I find hard to accept is that even if we vote out we still need a change in our law to leave the EU.
Only the politicians can allow us to leave.

Of course we would. Why is that hard to accept?

 

[fernandopartridge]

I can understand all of the downsides of being the EU (though regulations on employers and employment rights is certainly not one of them), so could be encouraged to vote out on that basis.

HOWEVER, I have no faith at all in the blatant liars within the Leave campaign who will presumably be part of the government post leave if that happens. I am thinking of Boris Johnson, Gove and Priti Patel, all pretty detestable individuals whose interests are certainly not for ordinary British people.

 

[Tad]

I agree with you there. Unlike the EU however, we can remove them. The only politician I've seen make a solid case for leaving is Daniel Hannan - who unlike either side of the campaign is actually looking at it from both sides. He's already said leaving will cause problems, but he's already set out a way to get past them.

For what's it's worth, I don't think it'll matter what people vote for. I'm 99% certain we'll stay in due the Tory's doing the fear campaign just like they do at the elections. As I said though, I feel it's just a case of staying in a bit longer before it crumbles away.

 

[lewys33]

I am in camp remain. The EU needs massive change, but the timing of this vote is wrong for me. I like the idea of taking back control etc. but the economy is not strong enough for the hit from investor uncertainty. 1% change in the economy would rule the cost of the EU irrelevant.

 

[fernandopartridge]

I agree with you there. Unlike the EU however, we can remove them. The only politician I've seen make a solid case for leaving is Daniel Hannan - who unlike either side of the campaign is actually looking at it from both sides. He's already said leaving will cause problems, but he's already set out a way to get past them.

For what's it's worth, I don't think it'll matter what people vote for. I'm 99% certain we'll stay in due the Tory's doing the fear campaign just like they do at the elections. As I said though, I feel it's just a case if staying in a bit longer before it crumbles away.

Yes, reading Daniel Hannan's book at the moment which does set out a rational case for leaving.

 

[Tad]

Apart from Daniel Hannan, I'm really surprised by the leave campaign. A lot of them have been asking for this for years and yet, when they finally get it they have very little to show the people on how it could work. Of course, there's uncertainties they can't factor and the IN campaign are fooling people into thinking they should know everything, but even the most basic things haven't been set out yet.

Speaking of the election in my previous post...does anyone else feel we need another one already?

The tories are a mess and they only got into power last year. It's clearly showing without the Lib Dems they're incapable of doing even the most basic of things.

 

[Pipehitterz]

I decided - leave.
After the last tv debate. I have had enough of cameron and his spin and lying. He says nothing that is true, he is totally removed from actual real life in uk.

Ask yourself, why is someone that is on his side , Boris, so determined that we should leave.

One of them is wrong , and cameron has never been worth anything trust wise .
I sat on the fence as I really didn't know , but we had a great Britain before the eu , we will have one afterwards.

Since the eu came along we haven't had a great Britain , scotland have never been so distant, and wales seems to have left Britain a Long time ago, let's start flying our own flag with our own rules once more

Please vote out and get Britain back

 

[Liquid Gold]

I wouldn't be surprised to see another election before the end of the year, the vitriol being shared between members of the same party, the government even, is astounding.

 

[Terry Gibson's perm]

I have voted to leave which is a total change of mind, if we leave we will be the first to go but not the last and then all these trade agreements will be gone.

 

[Pipehitterz]

Personally think the eu worked for the time , but times changed , europe is in crisis right now and things need changing

 

[Tad]

ITV have a live debate at 8pm tonight on the EU if you're interested.

 

[Gint11]

I'm also reluctantly voting OUT. I like the idea of Europe sticking together but current laws/rules etc is bollocks. I want my country to be in full control of its economic and financial choices and it isn't. If it can't, then the EU needs to be just, fair and right. The one size fits all isn't working. A reformed EU is what I'd go along with but that's not on offer whether Cameron thinks it is or not. In saying that though, if other countries threaten to leave it might create a shake up. Still at present, I'm leave.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[AngryAnt]

I'm very much in the remain camp.

End of the day I feel we'd be insane to leave and all the arguments for leaving are complete bs (especially the one about 'using the money to fund the NHS' don't even get me started on that line).

Cameron and Boris are playing a complete blinder though. Cameron is stepping down (about time!) and Boris is fav to take over.. If we stay in then Boris will be the 'heroic underdog who tried he's hardest and everyone loves the underdog' and if we leave then Boris will be the 'hero who wrestled control from the evil Europeans and fought tooth and nail to take back our country!!!'. It's a win win for them.

 

[dutchman]

Whichever side wins is going to be bitterly disappointed afterwards when the ludicrous benefits being promised during the referendum campaign fail to materialise.

 

[footyfrenzy]

 

[LastGarrison]

I'm erring towards leave.....

 

[SIR ERNIE]

It's actually a very straightforward choice:

Self determination, control and democracy
or
Dictatorship, uncontrolled mass immigration and instability


The EU is in chaos. It's sinking and if we remain they will milk us dry.

Vote leave. Vote freedom.

 

[SkyBlueScottie]

Free movement has been a bit of a disaster, its allowed segregated communities to form in foreign countries, which leads to an us and them type attitude which imo has fueled a rise in right wing politics. On the flip side I like that the EU has contributed to improve the infrastructure of poorer countries, for example Poland and would quite like if that type of thing could continue under the banner. However as time goes by I cant see that the current set up of the unelected in Brussels can continue to increase their budgets, ask for larger contributions without being held accountable. For me if the running of the EU could be reformed with each member state having an elected spokesperson who carries a vote then for me it would be much better. However the reality is its nothing like that so for me it has to be out.

 

[Otis]

It's actually a very straightforward choice:

Self determination, control and democracy
or
Dictatorship, uncontrolled mass immigration and instability.

Err, not being funny, but if that really was true there wouldn't be a remain camp and the vote would be 100% leave.

Except of course there would have been no vote, because we would have already left.

 

[Sick Boy]

It's actually a very straightforward choice:

Self determination, control and democracy
or
Dictatorship, uncontrolled mass immigration and instability


The EU is in chaos. It's sinking and if we remain they will milk us dry.

Vote leave. Vote freedom.

So a dictatorship offers a vote and the chance to leave?

I am voting remain and I think it would be a massive mistake to lose access to the single market and leave the EU.

 

[Sick Boy]

Free movement has been a bit of a disaster, its allowed segregated communities to form in foreign countries, which leads to an us and them type attitude which imo has fueled a rise in right wing politics. On the flip side I like that the EU has contributed to improve the infrastructure of poorer countries, for example Poland and would quite like if that type of thing could continue under the banner. However as time goes by I cant see that the current set up of the unelected in Brussels can continue to increase their budgets, ask for larger contributions without being held accountable. For me if the running of the EU could be reformed with each member state having an elected spokesperson who carries a vote then for me it would be much better. However the reality is its nothing like that so for me it has to be out.

The EU should and will change, IMO. Free movement is excellent, go and spend some time living in Europe, you'll have a great time!

 

[SkyBlueScottie]

The EU should and will change, IMO. Free movement is excellent, go and spend some time living in Europe, you'll have a great time!

I accept that the idea of free movement is excellent, sadly I think the reality is somewhat different. Rather like the EU, the idea is good, the running of it not so much.

 

[Liquid Gold]

It's definitely a good idea, think in the long run when the less developed nations who take more than they put in have developed to a sufficient level. Not only will we have massive trading opportunities but people will not have the economic need to come to the uk. We can live and work anywhere in Europe and that is incredible, to give this up due to short sighted concerns about migration and finance is insanity.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Free movement has been a bit of a disaster, its allowed segregated communities to form in foreign countries, which leads to an us and them type attitude which imo has fueled a rise in right wing politics. On the flip side I like that the EU has contributed to improve the infrastructure of poorer countries, for example Poland and would quite like if that type of thing could continue under the banner. However as time goes by I cant see that the current set up of the unelected in Brussels can continue to increase their budgets, ask for larger contributions without being held accountable. For me if the running of the EU could be reformed with each member state having an elected spokesperson who carries a vote then for me it would be much better. However the reality is its nothing like that so for me it has to be out.

The genuinely segregated communities (which means Pakistanis and Bangladeshis lets be honest) are not from within the EU in my experience.

 

[Sick Boy]

I accept that the idea of free movement is excellent, sadly I think the reality is somewhat different. Rather like the EU, the idea is good, the running of it not so much.

I will have to respectfully disagree. Migration is a sign of a strong economy and overall the vast majority of EU migrants benefit our society.

 

[Sick Boy]

The genuinely segregated communities (which means Pakistanis and Bangladeshis lets be honest) are not from within the EU in my experience.

A lot of people seem to lump EU migrants, refugees and non EU migrants together for some reason.