Forthcoming General Election (8 Viewers)

[Ian1779]

Hugely popular among the young.

He is - and Labour risk losing a lot of members if they get rid.

 

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[dancers lance]

Not sure what this is all about but the BBC are reporting that people within the labour party have proof that Corbyn and his office sabotaged the vote in favour of leave ?

 

[dancers lance]

Quote from BBC news site............And documents passed to the BBC suggest Jeremy Corbyn's office sought to delay and water down the Labour Remain campaign. Sources suggest that they are evidence of "deliberate sabotage".

 

[Otis]

Quote from BBC news site............And documents passed to the BBC suggest Jeremy Corbyn's office sought to delay and water down the Labour Remain campaign. Sources suggest that they are evidence of "deliberate sabotage".

Deliberate sabotage in the world of politics? Nope, not having that at all!

 

[skybluetony176]

Full story here.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36633238

 

[dancers lance]

Deliberate sabotage in the world of politics? Nope, not having that at all!

I agree, but this (if true?) would be sabotaging something they were apparently fighting for?

 

[Deleted member 5849]

You have to say whoever drew up this list had nailed the MPs' views of Corbyn pretty accurately.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-35884080

Only Lilian Greenwood, so far, comes from the positive side of those who've resigned.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Now two in the positive group. This is when it starts to look a bit more serious...

 

[Captain Dart]

Now two in the positive group. This is when it starts to look a bit more serious...

Corbyn is fucked, only a matter of time, it is debatable if he will even get the nominations of 35 MPs he needs to be able to stand again. I think he'll only get around a dozen nominations, MacDonnell, Mad Diane and a few other lefties.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Corbyn is fucked, only a matter of time, it is debatable if he will even get the nominations of 35 MPs he needs to be able to stand again. I think he'll only get around a dozen nominations, MacDonnell, Mad Diane and a few other lefties.

Which in itself offers an interesting conundrum, because there's no doubt he carries a groundswell of popular support.

And to deny him the chance to show that, splits the Labour Party by definition.

I'd be very disappointed if the current leader wasn't allowed the chance to show his vision in any leadership contest. You never know, it might shake him out of this torpor. To do otherwise would be the Parliamentary Party showing they've not learned from their recent failures, by staying in a bubble and not allow their membership a voice. Whatever Corbyn's failures as leader, to do that could be the most destructive thing they've done.

 

[Captain Dart]

Which in itself offers an interesting conundrum, because there's no doubt he carries a groundswell of popular support.

And to deny him the chance to show that, splits the Labour Party by definition.

I'd be very disappointed if the current leader wasn't allowed the chance to show his vision in any leadership contest. You never know, it might shake him out of this torpor. To do otherwise would be the Parliamentary Party showing they've not learned from their recent failures, by staying in a bubble and not allow their membership a voice. Whatever Corbyn's failures as leader, to do that could be the most destructive thing they've done.

Yes it does doesn't it.

Press here.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

I'd hope in any Labour leadership election, any candidate against Corbyn would be rather more dynamic than last time. The problem they had last time was none of them, bar Corbyn (and Burnham belatedly, once he realised Corbyn was actually a threat), offered any kind of vision.

So any future leadership election, you'd hope(!) would be contested as much on policy and direction as anything else. That's no bad thing...

 

[wingy]

He is - and Labour risk losing a lot of members if they get rid.

Agreed
Yet may gain voters
I find politics less and less relevant.
Globalisation and Multi-Nationals now seem to dictate how the world runs.
The pretence of democracy seems to merely pay lip service.
The Establishment have been after him from the get go.
Keunsberg especially has been nothing but hostile to him.

 

[dongonzalos]

The general election will be the sledge hammer but the Cons will find a way to get out of the referendum, without it coming to that.
They won't want it if Labour suddenly bring in a viable candidate with a "stay" in mandate

 

[Deleted member 5849]

The Establishment have been after him from the get go.

They have.

What he hasn't necessarily shown is the strength of character to overcome that however. And I don't mean the bloody stupid stuff like him not singing the national anthem, or dressing a bit scruffily. I mean his ability to lead and pull policy together.

To his credit he has tried to concede, a free vote on Syria was a very magnanimous and gracious gesture for one, but Trident became a shoddy fudge, and so's the EU stuff.

And if he were to end up inert during a general election campaign, then it all gets swept away, doesn't it.

I want him to succeed, because my sympathies are with the left, but he needs the kick to either shake himself up, or move over for someone more dynamic.

Ideal case is he's made the case for the Labour Party to be relevant to the left, and shown left wingers don't have to be tub thumping mentalists... but someone else comes in to fill the space.

 

[chiefdave]

Which in itself offers an interesting conundrum, because there's no doubt he carries a groundswell of popular support.

And to deny him the chance to show that, splits the Labour Party by definition.

Its a very interesting situation. I have no doubt that should Corbyn stand again he would leave. If the PLP deny the rank and file the opportunity to vote for their preferred candidate then it sends a very clear message that the PLP couldn't care less about the wishes of the party members. Why would anyone continue to support them?

You only have to look at the response on social media. Many younger Labour supporters are happy that these people are resigning. The general feeling seems to be Corbyn gave them a chance and should now replace them with those whose views are more in line with his own.

 

[chiefdave]

Yet may gain voters

I'm not sure that moving more towards the centre would work again. When Blair did it they managed to present it as a new way forward for Labour, that won't work again. You already see phrases like Red Tories being thrown around.
It would be a big gamble. Lib Dems moved that way and got wiped out at the next election. Scottish Labour moved that way and got wiped out.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Its a very interesting situation. I have no doubt that should Corbyn stand again he would leave. If the PLP deny the rank and file the opportunity to vote for their preferred candidate then it sends a very clear message that the PLP couldn't care less about the wishes of the party members. Why would anyone continue to support them?

You only have to look at the response on social media. Many younger Labour supporters are happy that these people are resigning. The general feeling seems to be Corbyn gave them a chance and should now replace them with those whose views are more in line with his own.

And then you have the circle, what makes a party electable? Kinnock, Smith, Blair recognised the party needed to move away from what its core support wanted, to appeal to a wider base but, arguably, it's Blair moving it too far that weakens its affinity with its traditional heartlands.

So somehow, a leader has to find a way to preach to the converted, while recognising the need to convert at the same time.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Of course if we had a more flexible political system, we could have a left ing Labour Party, an SDP equivalent populated by Blairites, a Liberal Party... and they'd take the best of all of them for government, while allowing the margins a voice that they don't seem to get nowadays, and allowing their leaders to be a lot more authentic really.

 

[clint van damme]

and this is why this country is fucked as a democracy as the media tail wags the dog.
I'm not saying there isn't a potentially big story brewing regarding Corbyn but really, bigger than the lies which have been exposed today from the leave campaign regarding immigration and the funding of the NHS?
Bigger than it emerging that the leave campaign have no plan for actually leaving the EU?
Bigger than Cameron reneging on his promise to trigger article 50?
Bigger than the UK potentially fracturing?

 

[Deleted member 5849]

I'm not saying there isn't a potentially big story brewing regarding Corbyn but really, bigger than the lies which have been exposed today from the leave campaign regarding immigration and the funding of the NHS?
Bigger than it emerging that the leave campaign have no plan for actually leaving the EU?
Bigger than Cameron reneging on his promise to trigger article 50?
Bigger than the UK potentially fracturing?

Potentially this is where the Labour Party has shot itself in the foot by acting now however.

Then again, if they think Corbyn isn't capable of articulating all that in a general election, best they get the pain out the way now...

 

[Liquid Gold]

I'm a labour member and while I not be Corbyn's biggest supporter I did vote for him. I could be persuaded to vote for another candidate however if they provided a viable alternative while still being in line with the membership. I would certainly never vote for an opportunistic self interested Hillary Benn or someone from the extreme right of the party. What would be unacceptable however would be for the PLP to block our current leader who won an enormous democratic mandate just 10 months ago. For me, and many others, that would result in termination of membership and a complete divorce from the party unless radical changes take place.

 

[clint van damme]

I'm a labour member and while I not be Corbyn's biggest supporter I did vote for him. I could be persuaded to vote for another candidate however if they provided a viable alternative while still being in line with the membership. I would certainly never vote for an opportunistic self interested Hillary Benn or someone from the extreme right of the party. What would be unacceptable however would be for the PLP to block our current leader who won an enormous democratic mandate just 10 months ago. For me, and many others, that would result in termination of membership and a complete divorce from the party unless radical changes take place.

Would it be wise to install a Blairite as leader of the party weeks before the release of the Chilcott report?

 

[chiefdave]

Of course if we had a more flexible political system, we could have a left ing Labour Party, an SDP equivalent populated by Blairites, a Liberal Party... and they'd take the best of all of them for government, while allowing the margins a voice that they don't seem to get nowadays, and allowing their leaders to be a lot more authentic really.

That's exactly what is needed. The FPTP system just does not work for our multi party system. Too many people don't vote as they feel it is pointless or vote tactically.

They use FPTP in the US but that really is a 2 party election so not such a big problem. They used it in Canada but are currently in the process of changing to a fairer system before the next election.

 

[chiefdave]

I'm a labour member and while I not be Corbyn's biggest supporter I did vote for him. I could be persuaded to vote for another candidate however if they provided a viable alternative while still being in line with the membership.

You also have to factor in that membership has shot up since Corbyn became leader, they would all get a vote this time round. And then you'd have people who aren't currently members joining up to vote for him.

Can't see a leadership election being anything but a disaster for Labour.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

That's exactly what is needed. The FPTP system just does not work for our multi party system. Too many people don't vote as they feel it is pointless or vote tactically.

They use FPTP in the US but that really is a 2 party election so not such a big problem. They used it in Canada but are currently in the process of changing to a fairer system before the next election.

Personally... I'd keep the current system for the house of commons (there's an argument for strong government as opposed to hamstrung coalitions, and the local MP system *does* work well. Say what you will about some of the people on opposed ideological systems, but they are decent MPs for their constituents) but replace the House of Lords with a democratically elected chamber, elected on PR. Similar rules to now, where they can delay and ask for amendments, but ultimately have to bow to the will of the commons.

You could reverse it if you liked, but reckon that'd be the best way.

 

[Captain Dart]

That's exactly what is needed. The FPTP system just does not work for our multi party system. Too many people don't vote as they feel it is pointless or vote tactically.

They use FPTP in the US but that really is a 2 party election so not such a big problem. They used it in Canada but are currently in the process of changing to a fairer system before the next election.

Maybe the Liberals will come to the next election with a policy to change the electoral system. It might work this time. :smuggrin:

 

[chiefdave]

Maybe the Liberals will come to the next election with a policy to change the electoral system. It might work this time. :smuggrin:

Problem last time was the only option was AV and neither side really engaged in any decent campaigning. Whole thing passed by unnoticed by most.

 

[clint van damme]

Lib dems have said they will ignore the wishes of the referendum and keep Britain in the EU.
I'm not sure if it's genius or madness!

 

[dancers lance]

Lib dems have said they will ignore the wishes of the referendum and keep Britain in the EU.
I'm not sure if it's genius or madness!

Not sure how it would work but it could be a stroke of genius if a general election is called and they become the remain party and can mobilise the younger vote thus winning the election and passing legislation that scraps the EU referendum (or at least require a re-run) but, I very much doubt it.

 

[clint van damme]

Not sure how it would work but it could be a stroke of genius if a general election is called and they become the remain party and can mobilise the younger vote thus winning the election and passing legislation that scraps the EU referendum (or at least require a re-run) but, I very much doubt it.

it they can mobilise the remain support to vote for them they'd be OK. If there was a general election tomorrow, with emotions till running high, then I'd say they'd be able to, but there's a long way to go between now and 2020, unless as you say, an earlier election is called.

 

[Captain Dart]

it they can mobilise the remain support to vote for them they'd be OK. If there was a general election tomorrow, with emotions till running high, then I'd say they'd be able to, but there's a long way to go between now and 2020, unless as you say, an earlier election is called.

Will be one in 3rd or 4th week of October.

This is why...

Spoiler

"2016 Conference Season The dates and locations of the 2016 conferences will be as follows:
Green Party of England and Wales - Friday 2 September to Sunday 4 September 2016 at the University of Birmingham[1]
Labour - Sunday 25 September to Wednesday 28 September 2016 at the ACC Liverpool, Liverpool[2]
Liberal Democrats - Saturday 17 September to Wednesday 21 September at the Brighton Centre, Brighton[3]
Conservatives - Sunday 2 to Wednesday 5 October at International Convention Centre, Birmingham[4]"]

 

[dancers lance]

it they can mobilise the remain support to vote for them they'd be OK. If there was a general election tomorrow, with emotions till running high, then I'd say they'd be able to, but there's a long way to go between now and 2020, unless as you say, an earlier election is called.

The way It's going at the moment, with both the main parties fighting within, we could see an election by Autumn. I was for leave by the way, and I truly believe in democracy, if this scenario was to happen, and it was legally sound under our democratic laws, I would take it on the chin and except it

 

[SkyblueBazza]

Just rejoined the Labour Party. Blair persuaded me to leave...

It is all in the air... and that scares me a little.

Back when I were a lad, I resigned my Labour Membership when Tony Blair got rid of Clause IV (the commitment to put the means of production in the hands of the people). As I get older, I get a little more pragmatic as I see the bigger damage done by having a principled opposition to a Conservative Party (especially to my job prospects!).

I had high hopes for Gordon Brown as the path through that rupture, but he let himself get moulded by his party into something he wasn't. I do worry as we see the splits becoming visible in the main parties however then, with the decline of the Liberals thanks to Clegg's insanity, we risk the rise of the disturbing radical sides...

I think you might be confusing 'radical' with extreme? Nothing wrong with going back to focus on your true values and beliefs...unless they're filled with hate for others that disagree with your ideas and actions

...onwards & upwards PUSB

 

[Deleted member 5849]

I think you might be confusing 'radical' with extreme?

Not when they can be synonyms, no.

Anyway, are there enough Labour MPs left to form a shadow cabinet?!?