'We all want Coventry City to continue playing at Ricoh' (7 Viewers)

[Deleted member 5849]

I cant help thinking that the last thing that CCFC need right now is a confrontational stance either towards or by them

tbh I don't know. There's a certain argument to be made that rather than the death by a thousand cuts, we at least get it all out the way and can pick up whatever pieces are left. Our circles have been ever decreasing ever since we sold HR, and you could certainly argue the short term pain of some drastic decisions in the past would have been better than what we ended up with, trying to make do.

At least resolution allows people to look forward.

 

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[ccfcway]

I cant help thinking that the last thing that CCFC need right now is a confrontational stance either towards or by them

gulp .

 

[Brylowes]

Rent £100k
F&B Gross take from football circa £550k inc VAT after deducting costs the profit is split 50:50 with CCFC 72K
Parking 2000 spaces 23 times per year tops
Bars the average spend of a football fan at the Ricoh £1.97 per head inc VAT
Casino relies on gambling not the fact that football fans go in there for an hour or two either side of a match 23 times a year
Hotel I would suspect that the occupancy rate is affected by the rooms being unavailable on match days. CCFC sell the occupancy of match day boxes
Footfall is fine so long as it creates income CCFC creates gross income £550K Wasps match day get a spend of £5.84 on average or £1.1m and that income (football or/and rugby) brings with it costs
The sponsorship of the stadium is not just about football and the stadium now gets a fair number of mentions for rugby with tv highlights let alone the other events

Wasps would certainly like us there but necessary to the success of their financial plan i do not think so - not when turnover excl VAT is heading towards £30m per year - CCFC do not even bring £1m of that and after deduction of costs the benefit to Wasps is even smaller

So from what you have said there.
Us being there, probably between 500.000 and 1million a year + free advertising
Us not being there. ...................
Then of course, what they get now is only a league 1 club on it's uppers, so their
is Potentiall for them to get so much more in the future.
Do they really compete with us for support, can only speak for myself but I've never
Even watched a full game of rugby on TV, can't stand it, very different game.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

so their
is Potentiall for them to get so much more in the future.

And to lose so much more support to us in the future too.

A gain also comes with a cost. Take off the CCFC glasses and ask yourself what you'd want, to smooth over the risks of the possible costs.

 

[ccfcway]

So from what you have said there.
Us being there, probably between 500.000 and 1million a year + free advertising
Us not being there. ...................

a empty stadium to do what they want with 23 weekends a year. £1 million will be very easily clawed back by them

 

[Deleted member 5849]

a empty stadium to do what they want with 23 weekends a year. £1 million will be very easily clawed back by them

I don't know that it would but, ultimately,I don't see from the Wasps perspective what they get from us being here, unless we pay them a lot of compensation for the privilege.

This was always going to be about embedding after all wasn't it, and sometimes that would involve moves that wouldn't give the £1 now, in order to get the £many in the future.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Tell you what as well, such a small number of signatures on a petition for the academy isn't going to help us get a reasonable stadium deal either. If Wasps ever needed reassurance they don't have to bother about winning over hearts and minds they're now getting it.

 

[Brylowes]

a empty stadium to do what they want with 23 weekends a year. £1 million will be very easily clawed back by them

So what could they do to bring in at least 12.000 punters on freezing cold
Saturday afternoons through the winter. ?

 

[Brylowes]

Tell you what as well, such a small number of signatures on a petition for the academy isn't going to help us get a reasonable stadium deal either. If Wasps ever needed reassurance they don't have to bother about winning over hearts and minds they're now getting it.

The problem here sits with our owners, have they demonstrated to you
That they are committed to the future of the academy, or even bothered
for that matter .
Because I don't think they have.

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

a empty stadium to do what they want with 23 weekends a year. £1 million will be very easily clawed back by them

What other events would guarantee 8-15k viewers for 23 weekends a year?

 

[Deleted member 5849]

The problem here sits with our owners, have they demonstrated to you
That they are committed to the future of the academy, or even bothered
for that matter .
Because I don't think they have.

What's that got to do with what I said?

It's not about the whos, the whys, and the weres. The current evidence is that Wasps don't have to worry about a potential backlash that would affect their own standing or status. That is not about blaming CCFC, SISU, Wasps, CCC, or the fans. That's what the evidence currently says, however we got there.

The current evidence says there won't be a backlash... which then allows them far greater freedom to do what they will, as they're further along the path than they expected.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

What other events would guarantee 8-15k viewers for 23 weekends a year?

Why do you need that volume passing through to make the same money?

 

[oldskyblue58]

So from what you have said there.
Us being there, probably between 500.000 and 1million a year + free advertising
Us not being there. ...................
Then of course, what they get now is only a league 1 club on it's uppers, so their
is Potentiall for them to get so much more in the future.
Do they really compete with us for support, can only speak for myself but I've never
Even watched a full game of rugby on TV, can't stand it, very different game.

People made the assumption that there is nothing to replace CCFC with previously ................ that turned out well didn't it.................... and that was under a less commercially aggressive council and charity.

Yes probably between 700k and £1m gross income .................. then take out the VAT, the direct costs, the finance costs, the admin costs, the wages costs ....... i suspect the net worth of CCFC to Wasps is under £400k as it stands. Plus some advertising but because of all the other stuff that goes on there the Ricoh Arena is a reasonably strong brand in its own right

Yes there could be potential but equally there could be further decline as it stands

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

Tell you what as well, such a small number of signatures on a petition for the academy isn't going to help us get a reasonable stadium deal either. If Wasps ever needed reassurance they don't have to bother about winning over hearts and minds they're now getting it.

The owner of Wasps has already gone on record saying he has been surprised at how little protest and resistance from locals there has been to Wasps trying to take over the city.

 

[Nick]

The owner of Wasps has already gone on record saying he has been surprised at how little protest and resistance from locals there has been to Wasps trying to take over the city.

That's why he keeps meeting city fans and playing the pr game.

Look at what happened when people got outraged at wasps because of higgs

They nipped it in the bud didn't they

That thread about the boycott of wasps was a good example.

The trust and others were going to go all out against every party but that went quiet after they met wasps and csf didn't it?

The article this thread is a perfect example! People lap it up

 

[oldskyblue58]

What other events would guarantee 8-15k viewers for 23 weekends a year?

well i can think of three events this closed season that made up getting on for half of such a number and spent a lot more than £1.97 per head. It isn't necessarily about the number of times it is the type of event and the income created from that footfall.

Rugby has what 16 events? with crowds at 15k apparently, spend at £5.84 per head, is regularly televised, gets score reports on SSN, BBC, BT, not to mention highlight shows. If you were chasing income which would you have

therein lies the problem for CCFC - they are not important enough to Wasps and seem determined not to form any sort of positive relationship other than a superficial day to day needs must relationship

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

Why do you need that volume passing through to make the same money?

Well you don't if the spend per head is higher than that of a football supporter, but I'm not sure you are going to get 23 of these premium events a year.

Not arguing wasps need us but there's no obvious other revenue stream to replace us either should we leave, if we were to leave I suspect they would simply do without the extra revenue and concentrate on other areas of the business.

 

[Brylowes]

What's that got to do with what I said?

It's not about the whos, the whys, and the weres. The current evidence is that Wasps don't have to worry about a potential backlash that would affect their own standing or status. That is not about blaming CCFC, SISU, Wasps, CCC, or the fans. That's what the evidence currently says, however we got there.

The current evidence says there won't be a backlash... which then allows them far greater freedom to do what they will, as they're further along the path than they expected.

Because I think more people would be inclined to sign if our owners seemed
remotely interested in our future.
Why don't they come out and tell us there plans, I don't really get the impression
they even want the academy and the costs it includes.
I know they get to potentially sell a product of it every now and then to balance
The books, but that's long term thinking and they're not really know for that.

My hunch and fear is they no longer want to fund the academy, the way this is
Un-folding means they can achieve this whilst blaming everyone else.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Not arguing wasps need us but there's no obvious other revenue stream to replace us either should we leave, if we were to leave I suspect they would simply do without the extra revenue and concentrate on other areas of the business.

Could work out better for them, without the distractions...

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

well i can think of three events this closed season that made up getting on for half of such a number and spent a lot more than £1.97 per head. It isn't necessarily about the number of times it is the type of event and the income created from that footfall.

Rugby has what 16 events? with crowds at 15k apparently, spend at £5.84 per head, is regularly televised, gets score reports on SSN, BBC, BT, not to mention highlight shows. If you were chasing income which would you have

therein lies the problem for CCFC - they are not important enough to Wasps and seem determined not to form any sort of positive relationship other than a superficial day to day needs must relationship

Ok so that's 3 events, still another 20 at least. Probably more once you factor in cup matches

And league one also gets score reports from bbc, ssn and highlight shows. A while back I looked at televised numbers between rugby and football and found that even a lot of tinpot league 2 team attracted more viewers than a premiership rugby match.

I don't see any evidence that Anderson or the club is being deliberately difficult to work with and against forming positive relationships.
As far as I'm aware the club have repeatedly stated in recent times there intention to stay at the Higgs and were negotiating positively with Wasps before Wasps cut off negotiations. You can't build positive relationships if the other party doesn't want to listen which is what is happening at this time.

 

[oldskyblue58]

The trust and others were going to go all out against every party but that went quiet after they met wasps and csf didn't it?

Perhaps a better observation would be ask why that would be, rather than make assumptions.

Both CCFC and Wasps regularly use various forms of PR to promote particular agendas or even more simply their brands. One hasn't been very good at it though or has failed to back up much of what it has said but I suppose that's the fault of CT and easily influenced supporters.

 

[oldskyblue58]

.
As far as I'm aware the club have repeatedly stated in recent times there intention to stay at the Higgs and were negotiating positively with Wasps before Wasps cut off negotiations. You can't build positive relationships if the other party doesn't want to listen which is what is happening at this time.

you sure of that? and the reasons behind it ? Many times what has been said in this whole saga somehow has ended up being something different in reality. All I would say is keep an open mind, and perhaps ask where most of the "information" actually comes from

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

you sure of that? and the reasons behind it ? Many times what has been said in this whole saga somehow has ended up being something different in reality. All I would say is keep an open mind, and perhaps ask where most of the "information" actually comes from

Well wasps were the ones who said they stopped negotiations on the ricoh and the csf said they have been told by CCFC that the club wishes to remain at the Higgs and they were now exploring other avenues.

So tallies up with the message coming out of the club.

 

[oldskyblue58]

Ok so that's 3 events, still another 20 at least. Probably more once you factor in cup matches

And league one also gets score reports from bbc, ssn and highlight shows. A while back I looked at televised numbers between rugby and football and found that even a lot of tinpot league 2 team attracted more viewers than a premiership rugby match.

You don't need 23 events if the spend per head is greater. If the spend per head is higher then they don't need to put 23 events on or they could find 23 events of higher spend per head and go with that instead

One Wasps match of 12000 crowd raises Wasps 70K in F&B plus match tickets £216k plus car parking etc . One CCFC match of 12000 crowd raises Wasps Rent £4375 plus F&B 23k no ticket income some car parking. Both before deducting costs. If the net profit

Yes I am sure viewing figures are higher for football, and I saw what you posted before it was well reasoned, but how many L1 teams have a £30m turnover?

Rugby is in its early days as far as viewing figures are concerned, the football viewing figures are more established

 

[oldskyblue58]

Well wasps were the ones who said they stopped negotiations on the ricoh and the csf said they have been told by CCFC that the club wishes to remain at the Higgs and they were now exploring other avenues.

So tallies up with the message coming out of the club.

You see my response to that is to question the nature of what caused Wasps to suspend talks (not cancel) - I suspect it was legal "noise" other than the JR. It would be interesting to know when it was CCFC actually told CSF they wanted to stay wouldn't it?

Others on here go on about PR being used ....... is it at all possible that CCFC are themselves painting a picture here towards some objective? That words are used to convey a message that is not an untruth but isn't the full picture? Or do we just accept its come from the club it must be true?

 

[Captain Dart]

What other events would guarantee 8-15k viewers for 23 weekends a year?

They are already gearing up to bring in Rugby League, Netball, next it will be Tennis, a few more pop concerts, an American Football pre season game etc.

Here is another Compass run stadium (in Ireland) http://www.avivastadium.ie/what's-on

 

[Captain Dart]

therein lies the problem for CCFC - they are not important enough to Wasps and seem determined not to form any sort of positive relationship other than a superficial day to day needs must relationship

If SISU were smart they'd have bought the stadium, brought in CRFC as a tenant and got houses built in the Butts to raise finance, too late now.

 

[Nick]

You see my response to that is to question the nature of what caused Wasps to suspend talks (not cancel) - I suspect it was legal "noise" other than the JR. It would be interesting to know when it was CCFC actually told CSF they wanted to stay wouldn't it?

Others on here go on about PR being used ....... is it at all possible that CCFC are themselves painting a picture here towards some objective? That words are used to convey a message that is not an untruth but isn't the full picture? Or do we just accept its come from the club it must be true?

Wouldnt it have been all over the telegraph if CCFC were taking action against wasps other than the jr?

 

[Brylowes]

well i can think of three events this closed season that made up getting on for half of such a number and spent a lot more than £1.97 per head. It isn't necessarily about the number of times it is the type of event and the income created from that footfall.

Rugby has what 16 events? with crowds at 15k apparently, spend at £5.84 per head, is regularly televised, gets score reports on SSN, BBC, BT, not to mention highlight shows. If you were chasing income which would you have

therein lies the problem for CCFC - they are not important enough to Wasps and seem determined not to form any sort of positive relationship other than a superficial day to day needs must relationship

Are the three events your thinking of, Springsteen, Mtv and one other.
Because they are all summer events and would never be put on during
winter, Autumn or spring.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

You see my response to that is to question the nature of what caused Wasps to suspend talks (not cancel) - I suspect it was legal "noise" other than the JR. It would be interesting to know when it was CCFC actually told CSF they wanted to stay wouldn't it?

Others on here go on about PR being used ....... is it at all possible that CCFC are themselves painting a picture here towards some objective? That words are used to convey a message that is not an untruth but isn't the full picture? Or do we just accept its come from the club it must be true?

See here's my take.

Would I trust anything CCFC say? Nah.

Would I trust anything Wasps say? Nah.

However, one thing we all seemingly agree on (on here, at least) is the need for an academy. Outside of here, it's the need for a home.

I see no reason why raising the awareness that there are people out there who would like us to have an academy and a home impacts on my first two statements.

What will be will be, ultimately, and eventually the parties will find their way - we can't influence that... apart from demonstrating that there's a substantial body of people who would like it to be sorted.

So far, we can't demonstrate that last point. Without that... we're never going to have *anybody* do anything with account to *us* because, tbh, why should they?

 

[Steve.B50]

You and I agree that the Academy is very important to our future but it seems that most City fans have more important issues to worry about such as the colour of the away kit.

 

[ccfcway]

What other events would guarantee 8-15k viewers for 23 weekends a year?

you don't need that many people. Its not like Wasps get all of the ticket sales.

Surely if wasps turn over 1 million from a ccfc season that's approx a turnover of £50k a game.

A large wedding and a kids party wouldn't be far off that these days.

Whilst clearly joking about the wedding comment, there are many many events that can be combined to turn them more than £1 million a year in an empty stadium.

I think many can only see the venue as a pitch. They have the rest of the arena which they could rent out, which is inactive on match days.

 

[Nick]

You and I agree that the Academy is very important to our future but it seems that most City fans have more important issues to worry about such as the colour of the away kit.

But saying things like that doesn't really help Steve? What next, people discussing a match don't care because they aren't talking about the academy?

 

[Steve.B50]

Nick I can say what I want as an individual.

The Academy and trying to save it should be the number one priority on here.

 

[Nick]

Nick I can say what I want as an individual.

The Academy and trying to save it should be the number one priority on here.

So should every thread be closed?