Save the Sky Blue Academy Petition (26 Viewers)

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oldskyblue58

oldskyblue58

CCFC Finance Director
Nick said:
Nothing to do with CSF then?
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obviously they are part of what went on or is going on, but please show me where there have been any meaningful long term plans by CCFC on anything.

Would remind you BPA is not capable of being done as it stands, and whilst CCFC/CRFC and its owners might have "allowed" that "plan" to somehow come out they also knew at the time that the head lease was not available if the plan included CCFC owned by SISU
 
Nick

Nick

Administrator
oldskyblue58 said:
obviously they are part of what went on or is going on, but please show me where there have been any meaningful long term plans by CCFC on anything.

Would remind you BPA is not capable of being done as it stands, and whilst CCFC/CRFC and its owners might have "allowed" that "plan" to somehow come out they also knew at the time that the head lease was not available if the plan included CCFC owned by SISU
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I didn't say anything about the plans or anything.

I just said about CSF and the same bloke talking to Wasps a lot before they moved and setting up Engage etc.
 
oldskyblue58

oldskyblue58

CCFC Finance Director
comes back to a point I have made repeatedly.............. CCFC needs to build strong partnerships to get what they want, partnerships with the key decision makers not confrontational relationships. If they really want to stay in Coventry sooner or later they have build positive relationships with CCC, CSF, Wasps - which brings another question doesn't it?

It shouldn't be either Rugby or Football, why not both?
 
Orca

Orca

Well-Known Member
Nick said:
I didn't say anything about the plans or anything.

I just said about CSF and the same bloke talking to Wasps a lot before they moved and setting up Engage etc.
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Why would CSF need to talk to CCFC? We'd already announced our intentions and they didn't include the Academy staying at AHC. CSF needed a tenant - that's why they are working with Wasps.

Why would the Higgs Trust or any of the associated bodies want to deal with CCFC and their owners ever again?
 
Orca

Orca

Well-Known Member
Nick said:
Is that a serious question? Unless formal notice was given to say it won't be extended? It could have been.
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Why wouldn't it be a serious question? If your current tenant has made their intentions clear to leave (http://bit.ly/29M7NQc) wouldn't it make sense to go and find a tenant? Particularly one that hasn't sued an associated body and reneged on a deal to buy their share in the stadium.
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
Are we going to go around what people said a year and more ago?

If we were, then Wasps are staying in London aren't they... and their base will *definitely* be in London.

We are where we are, and we know what everybody wants according to their statements, so how about we work with that rather than what was?
 
Nick

Nick

Administrator
Orca said:
Why wouldn't it be a serious question? If your current tenant has made their intentions clear to leave (http://bit.ly/29M7NQc) wouldn't it make sense to go and find a tenant? Particularly one that hasn't sued an associated body and reneged on a deal to but their share in the stadium.
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I don't think any notice was actually given though was it? Or should we start evicting anybody that says that they want to move to a bigger house or sacking them if they say they want to have a different job?

If CCFC did hand notice in then I can totally understand.

No mention of Higgs suing CCFC?
 
Nick

Nick

Administrator
Deleted member 5849 said:
Are we going to go around what people said a year and more ago?

If we were, then Wasps are staying in London aren't they... and their base will *definitely* be in London.

We are where we are, and we know what everybody wants according to their statements, so how about we work with that rather than what was?
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Pretty much, you would think things would be based on if formal notice or something was given.

The whole "but ccfc said this to a newspaper or in a statement" is being pushed hard, it isn't really a reason is it? It is just a way to turn it around.
 
Orca

Orca

Well-Known Member
Nick said:
I don't think any notice was actually given though was it? Or should we start evicting anybody that says that they want to move to a bigger house or sacking them if they say they want to have a different job?

If CCFC did hand notice in then I can totally understand.

No mention of Higgs suing CCFC?
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Well, for starters, you're guessing.

If the tenancy is a fixed term and your current tenant has stated publicly they're leaving, what else would CSF need to know?

Yes, AHT sued SISU because at the 11th hour, they offered substantially less for their share of the Ricoh. AH sued and SISU counter sued. They were both told to clear off by the judge. All of that means there is a distrust. If a tenant you don't like or trust says they're going, why would CSF/AHT be under any obligation to talk to SISU?

Having just read some of the provision on business leases, there is no provision in law for a 'renewal'. At the end of a commercial lease the lease is automatically terminated and a landlord, if they decide to renew, can offer a lease, but it would be a new lease and not a renewal. The landlord must also give notice between 12 and 6 months before the lease ends (and not outside of these dates) if they wish to terminate. We have yet to reach this time period. Your house and job analogy doesn't work on the basis the law is different.
 
oldskyblue58

oldskyblue58

CCFC Finance Director
my understanding of the arrangement at Higgs centre is that it was not a lease at all. What was signed was an agreement for a specified period that gave CCFC first call on block bookings so long as they booked it (and paid for) at least 3 months in advance. As such there would be no rights or remedies that attach to tenancies in any case.
 
Orca

Orca

Well-Known Member
oldskyblue58 said:
my understanding of the arrangement at Higgs centre is that it was not a lease at all. What was signed was an agreement for a specified period that gave CCFC first call on block bookings so long as they booked it (and paid for) at least 3 months in advance. As such there would be no rights that attach to tenancies in any case.
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I hadn't heard that before OSB, thanks.

Not sure it changes much though. The Academy will still be out on their ear unless the board and SISU do something. That was the original point of my questioning the petition in the first place.
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
Orca said:
I hadn't heard that before OSB, thanks.

Not sure it changes much though. The Academy will still be out on their ear unless the board and SISU do something. That was the original point of my questioning the petition in the first place.
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A petition can be useful in showing there is public will behind the need to find a resolution.

...or not.
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
Otis said:
As it stands at the moment it is 1,183. Just how pathetic is that. :(
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It's not good is it, and tbh I really don't understand either.

Perhaps we're all protested out? Guess we had a 'save the academy' collection before, under Robinson.

But when it comes to it, it's just signing a name... and it's not even making a judgement about who's to blame, who should sort it out, just we'd like a club with *some* infrastructure.

Doesn't bode well for the fights to come, does it?

Anyway, would genuinely like to hear from anybody around here who hasn't signed it... why? Let's start by finding out what's stopping people.
 
Otis

Otis

Well-Known Member
jimmyhillsfanclub said:
I signed it......despite my feeling that is all rather pointless as the outcome appears inevitable....

....although part of me wishes I never signed it as the amount of dogshit spam from the petitions host site is outrageous.......

....I may start a petition about it...
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I think that is it in a nutshell. People thinking it is pointless because the outcome is inevitable.
 
oldskyblue58

oldskyblue58

CCFC Finance Director
Its all sorts of reasons I would think, holiday season, closed season, battle fatigue, fans disconnect etc - you name it and it will be a reason given. Aside from an article in the Ct and mention within another campaign by the Observer then it hasn't been covered that well. Its the old saying really "you never miss something till its gone".................. with the lack drive/effort other than intransigence around from the main parties then the future of the Academy seems less secure by the day

It doesn't bode well at all, and I would think it should really worry the club & owners on this and other future plans
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
oldskyblue58 said:
Its the old saying really "you never miss something till its gone"
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I often wonder with football clubs if this is a very real danger to their existence in the long term. Despite administrations, insolvencies, all kinds of things... clubs always seem to resolve issues to some extent. Hell, even Northampton we came back.

Can't help but feel the perpetual crisis leads to a certain element of taking for granted.
 
chiefdave

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
oldskyblue58 said:
obviously they are part of what went on or is going on, but please show me where there have been any meaningful long term plans by CCFC on anything.

Would remind you BPA is not capable of being done as it stands, and whilst CCFC/CRFC and its owners might have "allowed" that "plan" to somehow come out they also knew at the time that the head lease was not available if the plan included CCFC owned by SISU
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The club were talking to Wasps about staying at the Ricoh long term, Wasp suddenly refused to engage in further talks. The club were talking to CSF about staying at Higgs long term, in the meantime CSF were working with Wasps on a plan that would force CCFC out.

Don't understand this sort of attitude. Surely the fact that the council have attempted to block the football club before a plan to move to the Butts was even presented should have fans up in arms. Instead its used as a stick to beat CCFC.
Orca said:
Why would CSF need to talk to CCFC? We'd already announced our intentions and they didn't include the Academy staying at AHC. CSF needed a tenant - that's why they are working with Wasps.
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This is exactly the kind of attitude that will see the club end up ceasing to exist without a whimper. How on earth can anyone be more concerned with trying to score points against SISU than the future of the club?

The club can aspire to owning its own state of the art facility without expecting to be kicked out of their existing facility. At the very least CSF should have asked the question when Wasps came sniffing around. If the club had then said they wouldn't commit it would be a different story.
Orca said:
f the tenancy is a fixed term and your current tenant has stated publicly they're leaving, what else would CSF need to know?
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Except that's not what happened. The club were in talks with CSF about a long term deal to stay at the lease. CSF cut off talks when Wasps announced they were moving in.
Steve.B50 said:
Your right it's pathetic. What argument can anyone put forward about saving our Academy with just over 1,000 signatures.
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Can't argue with that. I just can't imagine any other clubs fans responding with such apathy given similar treatment to us. Apathy will be the death of this club, we'll end up without an academy and with an unsustainable deal at the Ricoh and slide out of the league the way things are going. At the moment our future seems very similar to that of Stockport.
 
Orca

Orca

Well-Known Member
chiefdave said:
The club were talking to Wasps about staying at the Ricoh long term, Wasp suddenly refused to engage in further talks. The club were talking to CSF about staying at Higgs long term, in the meantime CSF were working with Wasps on a plan that would force CCFC out.

Don't understand this sort of attitude. Surely the fact that the council have attempted to block the football club before a plan to move to the Butts was even presented should have fans up in arms. Instead its used as a stick to beat CCFC.

This is exactly the kind of attitude that will see the club end up ceasing to exist without a whimper. How on earth can anyone be more concerned with trying to score points against SISU than the future of the club?

The club can aspire to owning its own state of the art facility without expecting to be kicked out of their existing facility. At the very least CSF should have asked the question when Wasps came sniffing around. If the club had then said they wouldn't commit it would be a different story.

Except that's not what happened. The club were in talks with CSF about a long term deal to stay at the lease. CSF cut off talks when Wasps announced they were moving in.

Can't argue with that. I just can't imagine any other clubs fans responding with such apathy given similar treatment to us. Apathy will be the death of this club, we'll end up without an academy and with an unsustainable deal at the Ricoh and slide out of the league the way things are going. At the moment our future seems very similar to that of Stockport.
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I'm afraid that expecting CSF to deal equitably with SISU died when they reneged on the deal with Alan Higgs.


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