The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (272 Viewers)

[chiefdave]

Now all that being said the way this coup has been brought about sickens me and it isn't fair on him. He was elected fairly with other candidates and he won. By hook or by crook he won. That's the end of it. He hasn't been a scandal.

Agree with this. We seem to be taking a route where, if the result isn't the one you want it can just be ignored.

 

---

[chiefdave]

She was obviously very upset and reported that private addresses and emails of the committee had been leaked and that enormous pressure and threats had rained down on the committee before the vote on Corbyn. One member who had become subject to particularly vile abuse requested a secret ballot and Corbyn voted against.

Details wouldn't need to be leaked. The NEC are the members representatives and as such are easily contactable and therefore make their contact details known.

There's a very different version of events starting to emerge as well. For example Owen Jones, who she referred to sending bulling texts has published the text in question

And those present at CLP meetings where abuse was said to have taken place have stated categorically that it wasn't true.

There's a simple reason its not a secret ballot. NEC representatives represent the party membership. If you don't know where they stand how do you know who to vote for in NEC elections? Would you accept MPs voting in secret?

 

[martcov]

Most of us view Merkle as a town hall councillor promoted above her ability so I wouldn't worry about it.

One of the most respected politicians in the world. How would you rate her on honesty as compared to Boris the bullshitter? How would you rate her on seriousness as opposed to Boris the buffoon? How many years has this councillor been Kanzlerin of the largest andmost economically powerful country in Europe as opposed to the buffoon's stint at mayor of London? How would you rate her on compassion and care for humanity compared to the self interest and self publicising Boris? By the way, she is called Merkel - not Merkle or Meerkat as you people like to think and she doesn't rule us ( UK ) via Brussels.

 

[SIR ERNIE]

Merkel is despised throughout SE Europe, Greece and the Balkan States for her open door policy to migrants.
That view is now shared by large percentages of the populations of Austria, Denmark, Sweden and of course Germany.

Grendel is right. Competent at local level but she's clearly out of her depth on the international stage.

Her days are numbered.

 

[martcov]

Merkel is despised throughout SE Europe, Greece and the Balkan States for her open door policy to migrants.
That view is now shared by large percentages of the populations of Austria, Denmark, Sweden and of course Germany.

Grendel is right. Competent at local level but she's clearly out of her depth on the international stage.

Her days are numbered.

I wasn't talking about a popularity contest, Boris the clown would probably win that amongst the masses, but comparing her as a politician - her honesty, compassion, tenaciousness and seriosity. I said she is respected - that doesn't have to mean she is popular. Even Farage is popular with some people and he is a lying twat.

 

[Kingokings204]

Merkel is despised throughout SE Europe, Greece and the Balkan States for her open door policy to migrants.
That view is now shared by large percentages of the populations of Austria, Denmark, Sweden and of course Germany.

Grendel is right. Competent at local level but she's clearly out of her depth on the international stage.

Her days are numbered.

She seems out of her depth to me also. Seems best intentioned but gets things badly wrong. The migrant policy last year has literally ripped apart Schegen and the Balkan countries as they make their way through.

She is fighting a losing battle as she controls the eu as we all know what Germany and Merkel says is what happens.

Sorry it goes back to the same argument and I like most other people don't want a federal eu state with one currency and one border. One leader and one policy.

 

[Kingokings204]

I wasn't talking about a popularity contest, Boris the clown would probably win that amongst the masses, but comparing her as a politician - her honesty, compassion, tenaciousness and seriosity. I said she is respected - that doesn't have to mean she is popular. Even Farage is popular with some people and he is a lying twat.

So farage lies? You really hate the guy don't you. He lies no more or no less than any other politician.

Farage is popular with some because he stands up to the establishment and gives a more frank and honest view that others don't.

Did you see the prick yesterday yelling at him with a microphone outside Westminster?

 

[martcov]

So farage lies? You really hate the guy don't you. He lies no more or no less than any other politician.

Farage is popular with some because he stands up to the establishment and gives a more frank and honest view that others don't.

Did you see the prick yesterday yelling at him with a microphone outside Westminster?

Yes, I hate him. No, I didn't see that. Where can I see it? He doesn't always give a frank and honest view. That is why I don't like him. He says what some people want to hear e.g. when he said no-one in the EU parliament had ever done a day's work. That is not true, but lots of people like to believe that and so he says it as if it is true. He is a demagogue - tells people what they want to hear and winds them up. They follow him like the rats following the pied piper. He doesn't stand up to the establishment - he belongs to the establishment. He merely puts on a show to get people to believe in him. He went to Dulwich school where he was described by his teachers as a fascist and was accused of singing Hitler Youth songs late at night in a Suffolk village - which he denies...... I believe the teachers who, at the time they had their discussions about him being suitable to be a prefect, did not know that he would later lead UKIP.

 

[martcov]

She seems out of her depth to me also. Seems best intentioned but gets things badly wrong. The migrant policy last year has literally ripped apart Schegen and the Balkan countries as they make their way through.

She is fighting a losing battle as she controls the eu as we all know what Germany and Merkel says is what happens.

Sorry it goes back to the same argument and I like most other people don't want a federal eu state with one currency and one border. One leader and one policy.

I don't think you know how a federal state works. If she controlled the EU, there would be no refugee problem. The million that arrived last year in Germany would be distributed equally according to regional population around the EU which has a population of 500m. They would be 0,02% of the total population. That didn't happen, so she is not in control of the EU.

Either she is fighting a losing battle, or she is controlling the EU - she cannot be doing both at the same time.

We don't all know that what Germany says happens, happens. Germany has more to say in the euro because the Euro is based on the DM - over 60% was the DM. GB is not in the Eurozone.

 

[ccfc92]

I was very surprised, and delighted, the vote was out personally.

Too many of my age group (18-30) wanted in, and I thought that could swing the vote.

 

[Kingokings204]

Yes, I hate him. No, I didn't see that. Where can I see it? He doesn't always give a frank and honest view. That is why I don't like him. He says what some people want to hear e.g. when he said no-one in the EU parliament had ever done a day's work. That is not true, but lots of people like to believe that and so he says it as if it is true. He is a demagogue - tells people what they want to hear and winds them up. They follow him like the rats following the pied piper. He doesn't stand up to the establishment - he belongs to the establishment. He merely puts on a show to get people to believe in him. He went to Dulwich school where he was described by his teachers as a fascist and was accused of singing Hitler Youth songs late at night in a Suffolk village - which he denies...... I believe the teachers who, at the time they had their discussions about him being suitable to be a prefect, did not know that he would later lead UKIP.

I get your views and some of your views are fair but I just don't see him as that. Without NF would we have had a refendum and without rubbing it it? Leave actually won which shows maybe his views are supported. And his views hold some water.

He isn't IMO one of them. He isn't in the Conservative party because he isn't posh enough. He regulary states he is not posh enough to be a Tory. He worked for 20 years outside of politics. How many in Tories have?

For me, he pushes the boundaries, sometimes too often but without opposition you don't have a democracy. He won his referendum and resigned as leader Martcov. If he was a career politician he would of stayed on or gone looking for more. He doesn't have to. He doesn't want to. He is a bit outspoken and a maverick and like corbyn gets an unfair press because he is different. Different style different mannerisms and I don't like corbyn. I think he is a nutter but you can still see it happens. Something different and people don't like it.

I mean let's face it NF is a dick but I'm sorry but many people call him racist and fascist and this and that Martcov because they have nothing else to chuck at him. It's the non argument to his valid arguments. I don't like what you say so you are a racist. Sorry really gets my goat that one. Not just NF but many others. It's like we can debate immigration or terrorism without name calling.

Also watch on YouTube from yesterday he gets heckled by a scruffy student with a big microphone calling him yet again a racist in full blast. Funny to start with but annoying after a while and how the student gets away with it shows to me how biased it all Can be. If farage was shouting at someone getting interviewed with a microphone and swearing he would of been told to stop or arrested. But no this guy was being a dick and got away with it. Type in on YouTube farage heckled on sky news.

As for Merkel I don't particularly dislike her but she has aims I don't want and agree with. Germany do hold far too much power for whatever reason mainly the euro and the economy and they are the richest so law states they have the biggest say. I don't like the way the Eu is run and my heart goes to Spain and Greece and Italy mainly. Just so poor and it's getting worse. Never should of joined the euro and were all bribed and forced in to suit the big banks and big business namely Goldman Sachs and now they can never escape which breaks my heart. I love Greece in particular as I use to work there and what a great country brought on its knees and now literally on life support with people craving food and no jobs and no money. Once they get their own currency back and own laws they can create a working boom creating jobs and money for themselves until they do expect more bloody riots and more
Poverty. Very sad indeed

 

[Kingokings204]

I was very surprised, and delighted, the vote was out personally.

Too many of my age group (18-30) wanted in, and I thought that could swing the vote.

Why did you vote out? Out of interest for your age

 

[ccfc92]

Why did you vote out? Out of interest for your age

Mainly Immigration, the Euro and the general dictatorship from the EU.

I don't think anyone was given clear, realistic reasons to vote for either side, it was more point scoring and scare mongering but I believed getting out the EU was the best option.

Obviously only time will tell, but the markets are recovering, it gives the UK a bit of power again, and Godzilla hasn't torn London apart yet, so hopefully it was the right decision

 

[fernandopartridge]

I get your views and some of your views are fair but I just don't see him as that. Without NF would we have had a refendum and without rubbing it it? Leave actually won which shows maybe his views are supported. And his views hold some water.

He isn't IMO one of them. He isn't in the Conservative party because he isn't posh enough. He regulary states he is not posh enough to be a Tory. He worked for 20 years outside of politics. How many in Tories have?

For me, he pushes the boundaries, sometimes too often but without opposition you don't have a democracy. He won his referendum and resigned as leader Martcov. If he was a career politician he would of stayed on or gone looking for more. He doesn't have to. He doesn't want to. He is a bit outspoken and a maverick and like corbyn gets an unfair press because he is different. Different style different mannerisms and I don't like corbyn. I think he is a nutter but you can still see it happens. Something different and people don't like it.

I mean let's face it NF is a dick but I'm sorry but many people call him racist and fascist and this and that Martcov because they have nothing else to chuck at him. It's the non argument to his valid arguments. I don't like what you say so you are a racist. Sorry really gets my goat that one. Not just NF but many others. It's like we can debate immigration or terrorism without name calling.

Also watch on YouTube from yesterday he gets heckled by a scruffy student with a big microphone calling him yet again a racist in full blast. Funny to start with but annoying after a while and how the student gets away with it shows to me how biased it all Can be. If farage was shouting at someone getting interviewed with a microphone and swearing he would of been told to stop or arrested. But no this guy was being a dick and got away with it. Type in on YouTube farage heckled on sky news.

As for Merkel I don't particularly dislike her but she has aims I don't want and agree with. Germany do hold far too much power for whatever reason mainly the euro and the economy and they are the richest so law states they have the biggest say. I don't like the way the Eu is run and my heart goes to Spain and Greece and Italy mainly. Just so poor and it's getting worse. Never should of joined the euro and were all bribed and forced in to suit the big banks and big business namely Goldman Sachs and now they can never escape which breaks my heart. I love Greece in particular as I use to work there and what a great country brought on its knees and now literally on life support with people craving food and no jobs and no money. Once they get their own currency back and own laws they can create a working boom creating jobs and money for themselves until they do expect more bloody riots and more
Poverty. Very sad indeed

Farage was in the Conservative party until 1992 around the time the Maastricht treaty was signed.
He is posh and is your archetypal Tory, just too Euro sceptic to fit into the Tory party as it stands. Don't kid yourself that he's one of you. He is a former investment banker.
I voted leave like you but not because of Farage. (PS, in political posts, the acronym 'NF' is generally meant for a party slightly to the right of UKIP).

 

[dutchman]

Yes, I hate him. No, I didn't see that. Where can I see it? He doesn't always give a frank and honest view. That is why I don't like him. He says what some people want to hear e.g. when he said no-one in the EU parliament had ever done a day's work. That is not true, but lots of people like to believe that and so he says it as if it is true.

How do you know it isn't true? Do you know a large number of EU parliamentarians personally and are familiar with their work record?

 

[martcov]

How do you know it isn't true? Do you know a large number of EU parliamentarians personally and are familiar with their work record?

No I don't know any personally. There was a fact check done on a cross section of the Parliament - not all members because the list would have been too long. They took the CVs of all MEPs that took part in the same debate as Farage on that day. Only one was a career politician- all others had had jobs or businesses. There are loads of clips and views of his speech - but without the fact checks and so people tend to believe him - he gets away with it..., again.

 

[skybluetony176]

Farage was in the Conservative party until 1992 around the time the Maastricht treaty was signed.
He is posh and is your archetypal Tory, just too Euro sceptic to fit into the Tory party as it stands. Don't kid yourself that he's one of you. He is a former investment banker.
I voted leave like you but not because of Farage. (PS, in political posts, the acronym 'NF' is generally meant for a party slightly to the right of UKIP).

Indeed. The irony of former investment banker in the first line of his first speech on the morning of the declared result being "this result is a victory for the people against the bankers". It's a confession of being part of the problem while claiming to be part of the cure. I think that's called having your cake and eating it.

 

[martcov]

I get your views and some of your views are fair but I just don't see him as that. Without NF would we have had a refendum and without rubbing it it? Leave actually won which shows maybe his views are supported. And his views hold some water.

He isn't IMO one of them. He isn't in the Conservative party because he isn't posh enough. He regulary states he is not posh enough to be a Tory. He worked for 20 years outside of politics. How many in Tories have?

For me, he pushes the boundaries, sometimes too often but without opposition you don't have a democracy. He won his referendum and resigned as leader Martcov. If he was a career politician he would of stayed on or gone looking for more. He doesn't have to. He doesn't want to. He is a bit outspoken and a maverick and like corbyn gets an unfair press because he is different. Different style different mannerisms and I don't like corbyn. I think he is a nutter but you can still see it happens. Something different and people don't like it.

I mean let's face it NF is a dick but I'm sorry but many people call him racist and fascist and this and that Martcov because they have nothing else to chuck at him. It's the non argument to his valid arguments. I don't like what you say so you are a racist. Sorry really gets my goat that one. Not just NF but many others. It's like we can debate immigration or terrorism without name calling.

Also watch on YouTube from yesterday he gets heckled by a scruffy student with a big microphone calling him yet again a racist in full blast. Funny to start with but annoying after a while and how the student gets away with it shows to me how biased it all Can be. If farage was shouting at someone getting interviewed with a microphone and swearing he would of been told to stop or arrested. But no this guy was being a dick and got away with it. Type in on YouTube farage heckled on sky news.

As for Merkel I don't particularly dislike her but she has aims I don't want and agree with. Germany do hold far too much power for whatever reason mainly the euro and the economy and they are the richest so law states they have the biggest say. I don't like the way the Eu is run and my heart goes to Spain and Greece and Italy mainly. Just so poor and it's getting worse. Never should of joined the euro and were all bribed and forced in to suit the big banks and big business namely Goldman Sachs and now they can never escape which breaks my heart. I love Greece in particular as I use to work there and what a great country brought on its knees and now literally on life support with people craving food and no jobs and no money. Once they get their own currency back and own laws they can create a working boom creating jobs and money for themselves until they do expect more bloody riots and more
Poverty. Very sad indeed

Spain and Greece were poor before the EU and they both had a run of relative prosperity before the crash of 2008 exposed that they were running on debt.

What are Merkel's aims? Stability? Peace and prosperity? Humanitarian help? Which don't you like?

His teachers described him as a fascist in the 70's. I prefer the terms 'Liar' and 'demagogue'.

Strange that you think he is not a career politician and that he is no longer drawing a salary as a politician. As usual he plays to the crowd- I want my life back - but carries on riding the gravy train that he critises - anyway. So much to honesty.

 

[Astute]

MEP's wanting to keep everything as it is are those that want to continue riding the gravy train.

How much is Juncker on?

 

[clint van damme]

Indeed. The irony of former investment banker in the first line of his first speech on the morning of the declared result being "this result is a victory for the people against the bankers". It's a confession of being part of the problem while claiming to be part of the cure. I think that's called having your cake and eating it.[/QUOTE]
in the same way as he is still drawing his MEP salary.

 

[martcov]

MEP's wanting to keep everything as it is are those that want to continue riding the gravy train.

How much is Juncker on?

They are in the same carriage as Farage - but don't pretend not to be.

I don't know how much Juncker earns.

 

[martcov]

Mainly Immigration, the Euro and the general dictatorship from the EU.

I don't think anyone was given clear, realistic reasons to vote for either side, it was more point scoring and scare mongering but I believed getting out the EU was the best option.

Obviously only time will tell, but the markets are recovering, it gives the UK a bit of power again, and Godzilla hasn't torn London apart yet, so hopefully it was the right decision

Time will tell, but you could still end up with immigration and having to comply with EU regulations, but with no say in the matter. The deal has yet to be done.

There are years of bureaucratic negotiations to come.

Up until now nothing has happened to our trading conditions.

 

[clint van damme]

Time will tell, but you could still end up with immigration and having to comply with EU regulations, but with no say in the matter. The deal has yet to be done.

There are years of bureaucratic negotiations to come.

Up until now nothing has happened to our trading conditions.

There's going to be two big issues, the Citys European passport and free movement of labour within the EU.
I think the government will agree to the latter to keep the former.

 

[Astute]

Unelected Juncker, 61, 2 years so far in position. £245,629 pay. Plus residential allowance £36,844. Plus monthly expense allowance £1,135. Plus pension for life at 65 of £52,500. So 7 years gets him a pension that the vast majority can only dream of.

And he is not alone. The other unelected are on similar

 

[Captain Dart]

There's going to be two big issues, the Citys European passport and free movement of labour within the EU.
I think the government will agree to the latter to keep the former.

Pretty much but there will be some terms like Cameron tried to negotiate about benefits & social housing.

The Conservative manifesto said: "We will insist that EU migrants who want to claim tax credits and child benefit must live here and contribute to our country for a minimum of four years." It also proposed a "new residency requirement for social housing, so that EU migrants cannot even be considered for a council house unless they have been living in an area for at least four years".

 

[chiefdave]

No I don't know any personally. There was a fact check done on a cross section of the Parliament - not all members because the list would have been too long. They took the CVs of all MEPs that took part in the same debate as Farage on that day. Only one was a career politician- all others had had jobs or businesses. There are loads of clips and views of his speech - but without the fact checks and so people tend to believe him - he gets away with it..., again.

 

[Astute]

View attachment 5405

It would look better if all those in the pics had a job previously.

Surgeon for 6 years. Gave it up 1993? So he took longer in training than in the job.

 

[martcov]

It would look better if all those in the pics had a job previously.

Surgeon for 6 years. Gave it up 1993? So he took longer in training than in the job.

So being a surgeon for 6 years is not having a job? You are getting ridiculous now. Just admit Farage is a demagogue and a liar. Why is it so difficult to admit that when the evidence is staring you in the face?

 

[chiefdave]

Surgeon for 6 years. Gave it up 1993? So he took longer in training than in the job.

In 1975 Andriukaitis started his medical internship in Kaunas 3rd Hospital. Following the internship, he was denied the freedom to choose the hospital for residency by security services due to his anti-communist political involvement. He was offered to go to Ignalina, where Andriukaitis spent eight years at Ignalina Central Hospital. He was under continuous pressure from the government, due to his involvement in underground political resistance movement. Whilst in Ignalina, in 1979 he qualified in general surgery at the University of Vilnius; in 1980 he qualified in war surgery at Riga Military Hospital, in 1982 in abdominal surgery and in 1983 in trauma and orthopaedics surgery both at Vilnius University. After being promoted to surgeon (second category) in 1983, and due to demand for cardio-surgeons in Vilnius, Andriukaitis was able to relocate from Ignalina to Vilnius and was appointed cardiac surgeon of Heart Surgery Centre at Republican Clinical hospital in Vilnius, Lithuania. In 1987 he qualified in heart and vascular surgery at Moscow Bakulev Cardiovascular Institute and in the same year he took part in the first heart transplant in the history of Lithuania. In 1989 Andriukaitis was appointed cardiovascular surgeon (first category) and became a member of Lithuanian Doctors' Association (until 1996) and Lithuanian Heart Association. He was also a member of International Doctors' Association during 1998-2004. Andriukaitis practiced medicine until 1993, when new constitutional laws forbade Members of Parliament to take part in other non-parliamentary activities

 

[martcov]

Pretty much but there will be some terms like Cameron tried to negotiate about benefits & social housing.

The Conservative manifesto said: "We will insist that EU migrants who want to claim tax credits and child benefit must live here and contribute to our country for a minimum of four years." It also proposed a "new residency requirement for social housing, so that EU migrants cannot even be considered for a council house unless they have been living in an area for at least four years".

Maybe will get that as a compromise . Germany wants that or something similar.

 

[Astute]

So being a surgeon for 6 years is not having a job? You are getting ridiculous now. Just admit Farage is a demagogue and a liar. Why is it so difficult to admit that when the evidence is staring you in the face?

You are getting ridiculous with your comments. I have never backed him in any way. But you keep making stupid comments.

So are you saying that it is good that a surgeon gave up what he trained years for after just 6 years? We are supposed to be celebrating that he had a job 1987 to 1993. What a joke you have become.

 

[Astute]

So how many years of training just to give it all up to become an MP?

 

[martcov]

Well according to Astute that is as Farage said ' never had a proper Job in his Life'. Kingofkings is convinced that Farage is honest and standing up to the establishment. Farage knows full well people will post his speech without the facts. Spin at it's best. Kok even believes it was Farage's referendum and that Johnson is honest.

 

[martcov]

You are getting ridiculous with your comments. I have never backed him in any way. But you keep making stupid comments.

So are you saying that it is good that a surgeon gave up what he trained years for after just 6 years? We are supposed to be celebrating that he had a job 1987 to 1993. What a joke you have become.

Read Chief Dave's Post. He had to give it up. Read the CV and when you have done that tell me again that he never had a job. You have gone mad trying to support this disaster. Even if he gave his job up he still had a Job. Farage's own company is in voluntary insolvency. I wish he would give up his job at the parliament. He is a hypocrite.

 

[martcov]

Unelected Juncker, 61, 2 years so far in position. £245,629 pay. Plus residential allowance £36,844. Plus monthly expense allowance £1,135. Plus pension for life at 65 of £52,500. So 7 years gets him a pension that the vast majority can only dream of.

And he is not alone. The other unelected are on similar

How much does Farage get for attending less the Juncker?