Formal Planning Objection from CCFC (19 Viewers)

[stupot07]

Why do we and SISU expect someone else to provide the basic facilities a football club needs. Why not just build our own academy facility? You never know if they did a proper job we could receive revenue from it 365 days per year and put the revenue towards the playing budget instead of losing players to teams like Bradford and Sheff U.

Hang on, the higgs was built in part specifically our academy, and bar one year we have been based there paying rent since it was opened.

In fact as now reported, having the academy there was instrumental in getting planning permission for building higgs on greenbelt land in the first place.

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[stupot07]

If I had a house and the tenant wasn't prepared to commit to another tenancy I would find a.n.other ......I wouldn't get involved in trading.

Where this falls down is, talks between csf and wasps started at least 22 months prior to the end of the current ccfc agreement. Its not like there are just a few months to go and ccfc have said they want to leave. CSF are using the vision as an excuse, and people are lapping up the bollocks.

Its like you renting a 2 bed house out in wood end, and the tenant still has 2 years on his agreement. You notice on his Facebook that he says he would love to one day move to a mansion by the sea (never gonna happen just like the new stadium), and you immediately put the house out to let

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[Brylowes]

Where this falls down is, talks between csf and wasps started at least 22 months prior to the end of the current ccfc agreement. Its not like there are just a few months to go and ccfc have said they want to leave. CSF are using the vision as an excuse, and people are lapping up the bollocks.

Its like you renting a 2 bed house out in wood end, and the tenant still has 2 years on his agreement. You notice on his Facebook that he says he would love to one day move to a mansion by the sea (never gonna happen just like the new stadium), and you immediately put the house out to let

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No it isn't, it's a tenant who walked away once before without giving notice and
Leaving untold damage behind and refused to pay for it.
That would have been that but" when informed their new facilities do not meet
the necessary standard and they would therefore lose the 500.000 grant.
So they return "cap in hand" while still insisting it's only a temporary move, our
Long term plan is still to build our own academy, but yours will do in the mean
Time thank you very much.
Funny' but I don't remember any of this angst and fears the last time we left...

I bet they can't wait to see the back of us.

 

[Rusty Trombone]

Where this falls down is, talks between csf and wasps started at least 22 months prior to the end of the current ccfc agreement. Its not like there are just a few months to go and ccfc have said they want to leave. CSF are using the vision as an excuse, and people are lapping up the bollocks.

Its like you renting a 2 bed house out in wood end, and the tenant still has 2 years on his agreement. You notice on his Facebook that he says he would love to one day move to a mansion by the sea (never gonna happen just like the new stadium), and you immediately put the house out to let

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Spot on. Except change Wood End to near Willenhall and Stoke Aldermoor, and change the mansion near the sea to a normal place near Canley. Then change 'immediately put out to let' to letting them know what you plan to do when the agreement ends, but also state that you are happy to try and accommodate them, tell them you'll set up a meeting, hopefully they will turn up. I love analogies.

 

[stupot07]

Spot on. Except change Wood End to near Willenhall and Stoke Aldermoor, and change the mansion near the sea to a normal place near Canley. Then change 'immediately put out to let' to letting them know what you plan to do when the agreement ends, but also state that you are happy to try and accommodate them, tell them you'll set up a meeting, hopefully they will turn up. I love analogies.

You mean after you say sorry we've found a tenant, you need to leave and sorry we can't accommodate you as I'm getting a new hot-tub installed?

Oh sorry, the neighbours aren't happy, do you want to meet? No I can't put what I can offer you in writing, i'm doing this meeting purely for show...

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[Nick]

Spot on. Except change Wood End to near Willenhall and Stoke Aldermoor, and change the mansion near the sea to a normal place near Canley. Then change 'immediately put out to let' to letting them know what you plan to do when the agreement ends, but also state that you are happy to try and accommodate them, tell them you'll set up a meeting, hopefully they will turn up. I love analogies.

Didn't csf give the club notice? Haven't they also said that it wouldn't be possible for the academy to be there when it's done?

Those bits get a bit missed, in amongst the meaningless "our doors are open" statements they put out that don't really say anything but divert the blame and anger

 

[Rusty Trombone]

You mean after you say sorry we've found a tenant, you need to leave and sorry we can't accommodate you as I'm getting a new hot-tub installed?

Oh sorry, the neighbours aren't happy, do you want to meet? No I can't put what I can offer you in writing, i'm doing this meeting purely for show...

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We've been told to leave?

Maybe in the 70's writing and sending letters backwards and forwards was the way to go, but most dealings where you need to discuss things it's better to meet up first.

 

[RegTheDonk]

There's no hiding the fact that the council, the Higgs, and WASPs have been very under-handed in the last couple of years. This latest saga is going to be rubber stamped at the council meeting.

Looking at recent history, even though there has possibly been a case for them to answer, the council have run rings round SISU in court - perhaps even battering them. They are more savvy than you would expect from a lefty labour council and I cannot imagine they are getting into bed with WASPs unless they are confident they have the legal upper hand.

So while we are all pissed off, as Bry says above, most of this has been of Tim et als own making...constantly crying wolf then crying foul when it's gone tits up. SISU need to learn a lesson from WASPs - be nice, stop the bullying, and put your money on the table and get things moving.

At the end of the day, the site belongs to the Higgs. Its really up to them who they let use it or develop it. If you had some c**t renting your house, and had two years left, would you honestly still want them to extend when you have someone else who wants to move in? Looks like we will have to go it all alone outside of Cov after all at this rate.

 

[Rusty Trombone]

Didn't csf give the club notice? Haven't they also said that it wouldn't be possible for the academy to be there when it's done?

Those bits get a bit missed, in amongst the meaningless "our doors are open" statements they put out that don't really say anything but divert the blame and anger

Notice to do what, we're just renting it out. Strictly it's not possible to have a academy there now, but it's there due to people meeting up and putting a case together.

 

[Nick]

We've been told to leave?

Maybe in the 70's writing and sending letters backwards and forwards was the way to go, but most dealings where you need to discuss things it's better to meet up first.

Ccfc were given notice weren't they by csf?

 

[stupot07]

We've been told to leave?

Maybe in the 70's writing and sending letters backwards and forwards was the way to go, but most dealings where you need to discuss things it's better to meet up first.

Yeah, pretty sure we've been told we have to leave at the end of the current contract.



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[theferret]

Spot on. Except change Wood End to near Willenhall and Stoke Aldermoor, and change the mansion near the sea to a normal place near Canley. Then change 'immediately put out to let' to letting them know what you plan to do when the agreement ends, but also state that you are happy to try and accommodate them, tell them you'll set up a meeting, hopefully they will turn up. I love analogies.

You can play around with the analogy all you like, the fact remains the club never gave formal notice of their intention to leave - they only expressed a desire to at some point own their own facility.

The club were using Higgs, paying the rent, and at no point had published any plans or made any statement that they were actively pursuing an alternate site. While this was happening, while the club were paying rent to use a facility that was built for them in the first place, Higgs, CSF, CCC and Wasps were colluding with each other - actively planning a development that they knew would result in the academy being homeless and futureless. Oh, not to forget the insertion of clauses that would prevent the club ever developing the site for themselves. The knew exactly what they were doing, and while I'm not convinced Wasps were actively seeking to damage the football club, I strongly believe the others were. But you can pat them on the back for that if you wish.

 

[Nick]

Notice to do what, we're just renting it out. Strictly it's not possible to have a academy there now, but it's there due to people meeting up and putting a case together.

Notice that they weren't there or able to be there after the date.

It's a bit strange they come out saying it's not possible, keep putting out statements saying the door is open but won't put anything in writing. People might think they are doing it just to try and soften the blow and prevent any sort of back lash.

 

[Rusty Trombone]

If a contract finishes that means both parties are saying to each other that's the end, or they both 'want to leave' if you prefer.

 

[chiefdave]

We (Ccfc) wouldn't commit

It wasn't CCFC who wouldn't commit long term

“I am told that, at the time our current agreement was signed, Coventry Sports Foundation and the Higgs Trust (then the owner of the facility) were not interested in a long-term lease or even making a rolling 12-month agreement part of our contract.

And since seeking to make the deal long term the club offered to move the first team to Higgs as well as a show of commitment.

 

[stupot07]

If a contract finishes that means both parties are saying to each other that's the end, or they both 'want to leave' if you prefer.

But we know that Anderson and the club have tried to meet with csf and have written to them to tell them they wish to stay beyond july 2017 and that's with 16-18+ months left on the current agreement.

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[skybluetony176]

Nick, it's funny that you keep getting hung up on people believing what CSF/Wasps have said. What have they actually said? They've repeated what our club have said. So are people believing CSF/Wasps or are they believing CCFC? I'd say the latter and that's the issue that needs addressing.

 

[Nick]

You can play around with the analogy all you like, the fact remains the club never gave formal notice of their intention to leave - they only expressed a desire to at some point own their own facility.

The club were using Higgs, paying the rent, and at no point had published any plans or made any statement that they were actively pursuing an alternate site. While this was happening, while the club were paying rent to use a facility that was built for them in the first place, Higgs, CSF, CCC and Wasps were colluding with each other - actively planning a development that they knew would result in the academy being homeless and futureless. Oh, not to forget the insertion of clauses that would prevent the club ever developing the site for themselves. The knew exactly what they were doing, and while I'm not convinced Wasps were actively seeking to damage the football club, I strongly believe the others were. But you can pat them on the back for that if you wish.

Pretty much the same as the whole ricoh thing, council say "we want to build trust with the Football club" while they were going through the sale to wasps in secret.

Again, pwkh put that clause in out of spite didn't he? But people want to focus on an article csf have pointed out... It's like some sort of magic trick to get people looking at something else while they do what they want. How easy it must be.

 

[Nick]

Nick, it's funny that you keep getting hung up on people believing what CSF/Wasps have said. What have they actually said? They've repeated what our club have said. So are people believing CSF/Wasps or are they believing CCFC? I'd say the latter and that's the issue that needs addressing.

Nearly as funny as you getting angry at wasps and then taking a mouthful of pr.

They have said it wouldn't be possible haven't they? They have told the club they won't be there haven't they? They have refused to put anything in writing about what they can do haven't they?

Pretty much just an act to make it look like they are helpful and lovely, without actually doing anything. Just to soften any blow or backlash they might get.

 

[Nick]

If a contract finishes that means both parties are saying to each other that's the end, or they both 'want to leave' if you prefer.

Who wanted the short contract and who refused to discuss extending it?

 

[stupot07]

Whilst on a tangent, I'm now convinced Wasps have deliberately postponed Ricoh talks not because of background noise but in order to put the club under pressure so that they have no choice but to accept a take it or leave it offer with significantly higher rent towards the end of the current deal when the club get desperate.

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[Rusty Trombone]

You can play around with the analogy all you like, the fact remains the club never gave formal notice of their intention to leave - they only expressed a desire to at some point own their own facility.

The club were using Higgs, paying the rent, and at no point had published any plans or made any statement that they were actively pursuing an alternate site. While this was happening, while the club were paying rent to use a facility that was built for them in the first place, Higgs, CSF, CCC and Wasps were colluding with each other - actively planning a development that they knew would result in the academy being homeless and futureless. Oh, not to forget the insertion of clauses that would prevent the club ever developing the site for themselves. The knew exactly what they were doing, and while I'm not convinced Wasps were actively seeking to damage the football club, I strongly believe the others were. But you can pat them on the back for that if you wish.

They gave notice of their intention to leave when agreeing the end date, that's how contracts work isn't it.
The clause is their to prevent SISU (or similar) signing up to a contract lasting over 7 years, so not really a deal breaker is it, do you think SISU want to develop anything, I don't. You say colluding, others may say working together for mutual benefit.

 

[Nick]

Whilst on a tangent, I'm now convinced Wasps have deliberately postponed Ricoh talks not because of background noise but in order to put the club under pressure so that they have no choice but to accept a take it or leave it offer with significantly higher rent towards the end of the current deal when the club get desperate.

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Exactly, and they can do that because people will just blame the club and not them.

 

[Nick]

They gave notice of their intention to leave when agreeing the end date, that's how contracts work isn't it.
The clause is their to prevent SISU (or similar) signing up to a contract lasting over 7 years, so not really a deal breaker is it, do you think SISU want to develop anything, I don't. You say colluding, others may say working together for mutual benefit.

Did they give notice they were leaving then? They didn't actually did they?

 

[theferret]

Pretty much the same as the whole ricoh thing, council say "we want to build trust with the Football club" while they were going through the sale to wasps in secret.

Again, pwkh put that clause in out of spite didn't he? But people want to focus on an article csf have pointed out... It's like some sort of magic trick to get people looking at something else while they do what they want. How easy it must be.

Ah PWKH, the man that went around tying balloons to the cars of CCFC officials, the man who grossly misrepresented the breakdown in the relationship of the club in respect of the 'unpaid bills' at the AHC, the man who threatened supporters with legal action, the man who (yes, out of spite) made long term ownership/tenureship at Higgs pretty much impossible. Odious individual.

 

[Rusty Trombone]

Who wanted the short contract and who refused to discuss extending it?

I guess ultimately both parties wanted the contract for that period. I don't know about extention conversations, sorry.

 

[Bruce the Boot]

And since seeking to make the deal long term the club offered to move the first team to Higgs as well as a show of commitment.

Yes, freeing up Ryton , so they can sell it ... Its all about what Sisu can gain , not the club !!

 

[Nick]

Ah PWKH, the man that went around tying balloons to the cars of CCFC officials, the man who grossly misrepresented the breakdown in the relationship of the club in respect of the 'unpaid bills' at the AHC, the man who threatened supporters with legal action, the man who (yes, out of spite) made long term ownership/tenureship at Higgs pretty much impossible. Odious individual.

Be careful, his family are all lawyers and you wouldn't like them when they get annoyed....

I can't possibly comment, but he did seem very spiteful and angry with his behaviour on here.

 

[Rusty Trombone]

Did they give notice they were leaving then? They didn't actually did they?

I haven't seen the contract, I've no idea whether either party has to give notice, if they don't need to the argument is a bit of a red herring.

 

[Nick]

I guess ultimately both parties wanted the contract for that period. I don't know about extention conversations, sorry.

Wasn't it said that it was higgs who insisted on short term? Also confirmed the club had tried to discuss extensions but got ignored? (Probably because csf were already trying to shoehorn wasps in, as they had been working with them since before they even moved here)

 

[Bruce the Boot]

Be careful, his family are all lawyers and you wouldn't like them when they get annoyed....

I can't possibly comment, but he did seem very spiteful and angry with his behaviour on here.

Utter rubbish , not spiteful, not wanting future dealings with a hedgefund , YES.

 

[Nick]

Utter rubbish , not spiteful, not wanting future dealings with a hedgefund , YES.

What is rubbish?

It's fact! Is this another account from people at the higgs?

 

[theferret]

Be careful, his family are all lawyers and you wouldn't like them when they get annoyed....

I can't possibly comment, but he did seem very spiteful and angry with his behaviour on here.

Don't worry, I have a family member who is a barrister, or is it a barista? One of the two anyway.

 

[skybluetony176]

Nearly as funny as you getting angry at wasps and then taking a mouthful of pr.

They have said it wouldn't be possible haven't they? They have told the club they won't be there haven't they? They have refused to put anything in writing about what they can do haven't they?

Pretty much just an act to make it look like they are helpful and lovely, without actually doing anything. Just to soften any blow or backlash they might get.

It's not CSF/Wasps PR though, it's CCFC's and it's out there the same time as the planning objection. It's akin to filing for divorce while renewing your wedding vowels at the same time. It's a nonsense, one is counter intuitive to the other.

 

[Bruce the Boot]

What is rubbish?

It's fact! Is this another account from people at the higgs?

So where does it say it was done out of spite , where are those words from the mans mouth ?