Formal Planning Objection from CCFC (2 Viewers)

[Bruce the Boot]

Your not listening , Nobody trusts Sisu , and they certainly don't want to-do business with them , Why deal with them on there terms? Why give them anything they want when they cant be trusted , who knows how they would spin anything given to them .

 

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[Nick]

Your not listening , Nobody trusts Sisu , and they certainly don't want to-do business with them , Why deal with them on there terms? Why give them anything they want when they cant be trusted , who knows how they would spin anything given to them .

That still doesn't make sense.

If they don't trust them, make sure everything is written down and water tight then?

Who has said anything about "anything they want"? A list of facilities available?

 

[dongonzalos]

Well yes, when you are saying they are doing nothing wrong and trying to help* (along those lines, further back in the thread) it is defending them isn't it?

I think you are misunderstanding 'help' with they have something we need and they are under no obligation (as far as I am aware) to give it to us.
If you think that by agreeing to meet then, pulling out, then demanding they will put in writing how they will accommodate us before you will meet them. Is likely to increase our chances of securing the future of our academy then fair play each to their own.
Personally I think we had a better chance if he turned up. With that in mind I kind of think the opposite to the likes of Chief Dave. That I am more thinking about the future of the academy and he and a few others are consumed with the SISU verses the world battle

 

[Nick]

I think you are misunderstanding 'help' with they have something we need and they are under no obligation (as far as I am aware) to give it to us.
If you think that by agreeing to meet then, pulling out, then demanding they will put in writing how they will accommodate us before you will meet them. Is likely to increase our chances of securing the future of our academy then fair play each to their own.
Personally I think we had a better chance if he turned up. With that in mind I kind of think the opposite to the likes of Chief Dave. That I am more thinking about the future of the academy and he and a few others are consumed with the SISU verses the world battle

Again, he said from the start even before any meeting he wants to start with bits in writing didn't he?

Maybe, just maybe CSF didnt want to or couldn't help? Hence they were ignoring CCFC trying to extend even before the Wasps stuff came out?

Stand back and have a look at it all, it is pretty obvious. The whole process and the CSF statements that basically say nothing apart from "our door is open".

 

[Captain Dart]

That still doesn't make sense.

If they don't trust them, make sure everything is written down and water tight then?

Who has said anything about "anything they want"? A list of facilities available?

What a fool you are, nothing written down is 'watertight', how do you think lawyers make a living, by arguing the toss about what's written down of course.

CSF have no obligation to write anything down, they offered a meeting to explore possibilities and were spurned in a most unprofessional & rude way, why should they be arsed to take it further?

Continue if you must to live in a fantasy world where unrealistic demands by CCFC must be met, but methinks you are destined to be permanently outraged by the entirely understandable uncooperative attitudes of the parties under attack by SISU. Believe me, nothing will get better till SISU are gone, after that I expect everyone will suddenly become most helpful.

 

[dongonzalos]

Again, he said from the start even before any meeting he wants to start with bits in writing didn't he?

Maybe, just maybe CSF didnt want to or couldn't help? Hence they were ignoring CCFC trying to extend even before the Wasps stuff came out?

Stand back and have a look at it all, it is pretty obvious. The whole process and the CSF statements that basically say nothing apart from "our door is open".

So you agree with him, that it is not possible to meet up to discuss things without in all been put in writing before you have even had a single meeting to discuss what eventually ends up in writing.

I suppose they should have wrote him a letter saying they would like to start meetings to discuss what can be done and if there is anyway to accommodate the academy as well as Wasps at this facility.

 

[Nick]

What a fool you are, nothing written down is 'watertight', how do you think lawyers make a living, by arguing the toss about what's written down of course.
CSF have no obligation to write anything down, they offered a meeting to explore possibilities and were spurned in a most unprofessional & rude way, why should they be arsed to take it further?

CSF have no obligation to do anything, the same as CCC and Wasps. That is because they can do whatever they want and our fans will fall for anything they say because they are the enemy of SISU. All the way through people have lapped up their shit because of their hatred for SISU. We have seen people who have been protesting against moving clubs actually come on here and justify them moving... It is unbelievable.

How can they be sued from a list of facilities? It wouldn't be a contract, it wouldn't be binding would it?

 

[Nick]

So you agree with him, that it is not possible to meet up to discuss things without in all been put in writing before you have even had a single meeting to discuss what eventually ends up in writing.

I suppose they should have write him a letter saying some would like intimate meetings with you to discuss what can be done and if there is anyway to accommodate the academy as well as Wasps at this facility.

OR they could have replied to the things that were sent even before Wasps were there. Maybe he wondered why after trying to sort something and being ignored that CSF were suddenly being so helpful in the paper, just after people were pissed off with them about the news of them and Wasps at the Higgs..

 

[Captain Dart]

CSF have no obligation to do anything, the same as CCC and Wasps. That is because they can do whatever they want and our fans will fall for anything they say because they are the enemy of SISU.

How can they be sued from a list of facilities? It wouldn't be a contract, it wouldn't be binding would it?

Are you a legal expert now?

 

[ccfcway]

What would they be going to court about? It would be safer for CSF to do everything in writing wouldn't it so everything is documented and there in black and white?

You don't think this will end up in court ?

 

[Nick]

Are you a legal expert now?

Yes, because I quite clearly said I was or claim to be.

 

[Nick]

You don't think this will end up in court ?

Probably, but you would think things being documented would only help..

What does it matter though? Our council doesn't keep minutes on meetings of big decisions and it is fine. CSF could have drawn a spunking cock and faxed it over and people would have been made for it because it "showed" sisu.

 

[Captain Dart]

Probably, but you would think things being documented would only help..SISU

...so I wouldn't ... if I were you.

 

[ccfcway]

Probably, but you would think things being documented would only help..

What does it matter though? Our council doesn't keep minutes on meetings of big decisions and it is fine. CSF could have drawn a spunking cock and faxed it over and people would have been made for it because it "showed" sisu.

I am sure if that is the case, these people are in the minority. It seems the majority just want CA to attend a meeting to try and save our academy. That part is in "our" control.

 

[dongonzalos]

OR they could have replied to the things that were sent even before Wasps were there. Maybe he wondered why after trying to sort something and being ignored that CSF were suddenly being so helpful in the paper, just after people were pissed off with them about the news of them and Wasps at the Higgs..

That I agree with.
If he wrote them a letter asking to meet. Or left a phone call. Or an email asking to meet. They should have responded.
If he sent communication demanding they write to him setting out their propsals. Then even if they knew that's not possible or a bit bizarre they should have replied to say that is the case.
I think they are knobs if they just ignored him!

 

[letsallsingtogether]

Again, he said from the start even before any meeting he wants to start with bits in writing didn't he?

Maybe, just maybe CSF didnt want to or couldn't help? Hence they were ignoring CCFC trying to extend even before the Wasps stuff came out?

Stand back and have a look at it all, it is pretty obvious. The whole process and the CSF statements that basically say nothing apart from "our door is open".

So should I attend that interview if they don't put all the job details in writing?
My new job is in your hands!

 

[albatross]

You make it sound as if CA has said "You are going to give me these, on my terms, at the times I say, for the price I say". Jeez, he requested some info in writing, he didn't really dictate anything did he?

he did. He set out pre conditions before any talks can take place

 

[Otis]

Not when they are trying to hinder the club at every opportunity because they don't like our owners. There is a lot of fans that don't like the owners but still buy ST's.

I don't like saying it but if you go Birmingham City centre you don't see many empty shops and there always seems to be a development of some sort. Different budgets admittedly.

There are lots of developments going on here too.

There is Friargate at the station, lots of new office and retail space for business and shopping.

There is the old sorting office development. Student accommodation and shops.

There is the River Sherbourne. Being opened up opposite the transport museum. River accessible and cafes to be built around it.

There is the new water park. £36.7m development in New Union Street.

There is the Belgrade development. Student accommodation.

There is Charterhouse. Plans to open up the historic building, complete with visitors centre and cafe and a scenic walkway along the river Sherbourne and directly all the way into the city centre.

Just noticed yesterday too that the old HMV and Bank shops have been knocked down and merged into one and that is going to be a JD Sports superstore. Not my cup of tea, but it will prove popular I'm sure.

The Lower Precinct is doing so much better too now. Recently Schuh, Tiger and now Smiggle have all moved in. You now therefore have there H&M, Next, Pandora, Lush, Tiger, Smiggle, Clarks and Cafe Nero.

Lots of new restaurants have been going up in the past couple of years or so (sure the CT said it was something like about 54 in total).

There is a lot of stuff happening to be fair.

 

[stupot07]

So should I attend that interview if they don't put all the job details in writing?
My new job is in your hands!

I've never applied for a job without reading the job description and person specification. So the answer is probably no.


Back on topic.

1) Anderson should have attended the meeting

But

2) CSF know what we use now, they have tje liat of things we need, there is no reason why they can't put exactly what is available in writing.

I don't get how Anderson doing 1) excuses CSF not doing 2).


Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

 

[skybluetony176]

Yes, they are mission critical. So the people who own them can cause major issues can't they? Especially as there are no other options. It was the point I was making, it isn't as if they can just find another supplier so whoever owns the stadium / academy etc has control over the club. To say it is just down to the directors and nobody else can damage the club is wrong.

It isn't far off Cov Bees is it? Isn't it that the owner of the stadium wants to do something else with it? Using the directors are at fault, the blame should be on Cov Bees if they are in trouble shouldn't it? Not the people who want to flatten it or whatever they are doing.

Coventry Bee's owners are genuinely working hard to find a solution though. They're building bridges with local authorities not burning them and as a result other locations for a new stadium have genuinely been identified. There's no BS about speaking to two local authorities, environment agencies, highway agencies, announcement in three weeks, narrowed down to two sites, what colour should the seats be consultation group, oh no there's some badger poo, impact statement's etc etc.

They're getting on with it, quietly. Without a fuss and without upsetting people. They're also genuinely being made homeless. When they go and ground share in Leicester unlike when we went to Northampton they genuinely will have no choice.

Big difference in not just circumstances but also approach.

 

[Nick]

Coventry Bee's owners are genuinely working hard to find a solution though. They're building bridges with local authorities not burning them and as a result other locations for a new stadium have genuinely been identified. There's no BS about speaking to two local authorities, environment agencies, highway agencies, announcement in three weeks, narrowed down to two sites, what colour should the seats be consultation group, oh no there's some badger poo, impact statement's etc etc.

They're getting on with it, quietly. Without a fuss and without upsetting people. They're also genuinely being made homeless. When they go and ground share in Leicester unlike when we went to Northampton they genuinely will have no choice.

Big difference in not just circumstances but also approach.

I know it isn't their fault, I wasn't blaming them.

The whole "it is only the directors to blame" was my point. Whereas they are pretty much helpless and in the mercy of the stadium owners etc.

 

[skybluetony176]

I know it isn't their fault, I wasn't blaming them.

The whole "it is only the directors to blame" was my point. Whereas they are pretty much helpless and in the mercy of the stadium owners etc.

Alot of our predicament, especially the last three years has all been cause and effect of our owners actions. The same can't be said about Bee's. To be frank it was a stupid comparison to make in the first place.

I think there's been one statement from Bee's regarding their proposed new stadium and that is to the effect of they're working closely with RBC and have identified a site. We'll hear nothing again now until there's a real story to report on progress. They simply go about their business in a professional, productive manor, have direction and have a genuine end game. That's directors acting in the best interest of their company. You can see the difference I'm sure.

 

[chiefdave]

Because your a wind up merchant ! You just dont get it do you , NOBODY wants to deal with Sisu .

Its not SISU that wrote to CSF, its CCFC. You say nobody wants to deal with SISU, I presume you mean the club, yet we have signed deals with Nike / Just Sports and Ticketmaster - was any legal action needed there?

 

[Nick]

Alot of our predicament, especially the last three years has all been cause and effect of our owners actions. The same can't be said about Bee's. To be frank it was a stupid comparison to make in the first place.

I think there's been one statement from Bee's regarding their proposed new stadium and that is to the effect of they're working closely with RBC and have identified a site. We'll hear nothing again now until there's a real story to report on progress. They simply go about their business in a professional, productive manor, have direction and have a genuine end game. That's directors acting in the best interest of their company. You can see the difference I'm sure.

The point people were trying to make was that nobody else was to blame because they aren't CCFC directors.....

It was a perfect comparison, as Bees don't have owners like SISU and are in a mess which it is out of their control. So it isn't all their directors fault, just because their name is down as a director.

It was literally about somebody being a director rather than how hard they are trying, as further back in the thread people were trying to make out that nobody else can be blamed for any issues as they aren't directors.

 

[Bruce the Boot]

Its not SISU that wrote to CSF, its CCFC. You say nobody wants to deal with SISU, I presume you mean the club, yet we have signed deals with Nike / Just Sports and Ticketmaster - was any legal action needed there?

Totally different, Sisu have bought a service from those outlets .

 

[skybluetony176]

The point people were trying to make was that nobody else was to blame because they aren't CCFC directors.....

It was a perfect comparison, as Bees don't have owners like SISU and are in a mess which it is out of their control. So it isn't all their directors fault, just because their name is down as a director.

It was literally about somebody being a director rather than how hard they are trying, as further back in the thread people were trying to make out that nobody else can be blamed for any issues as they aren't directors.

No they weren't. The point that was being made was that ultimately the responsibility for CCFC falls on it's directors. That's not stating that no one else is culpable, that's stating a fact. A fact recognised in law as part of the directors code. You seem to have missed the point altogether if you think people were doing anything else.

Bee's owners may be in a situation that is out of their control but it isn't a mess at this moment in time as they are genuinely seeking a solution. Again, you can see the difference I'm sure.

 

[italiahorse]

So they are moving on without us? That implies they are kicking us out.

I don't get it, I thought they wanted to help us and it was SISU who wanted out?

Big contradiction.

I suggest they will help us if we push the process. If we don't they will carry on without us.
If we don't push this I would say Sisu don't really want to fund the academy.

 

[italiahorse]

Where on earth is the logic to closing it? It's partly funded by the FA and the generation of revenue from it far outweighs the cost for them to run it.

You really need to get your head out of Wasps' backside.

So why don't they invest in a proper academy if it's profitable ?
Put in a similar application to Wasps at the same location.
However, they are a month late on a formal planning objection so I suggest putting a planning application together may be a bit complicated for them.

 

[Nick]

No they weren't. The point that was being made was that ultimately the responsibility for CCFC falls on it's directors. That's not stating that no one else is culpable, that's stating a fact. A fact recognised in law as part of the directors code. You seem to have missed the point altogether if you think people were doing anything else.

Bee's owners may be in a situation that is out of their control but it isn't a mess at this moment in time as they are genuinely seeking a solution. Again, you can see the difference I'm sure.

It was stating nobody was else was culpable... Somebody said look no further than the council for something (cant remember what) and the reply was about the directors.

The context of it was saying they weren't to blame.

 

[Nick]

So why don't they invest in a proper academy if it's profitable ?
Put in a similar application to Wasps at the same location.
However, they are a month late on a formal planning objection so I suggest putting a planning application together may be a bit complicated for them.

So they are going to put in planning for something that is already built, on somewhere they can't be for more than 7 years at a time?

 

[Bruce the Boot]

So they are going to put in planning for something that is already built, on somewhere they can't be for more than 7 years at a time?

I must say Nick you are good at keeping the debate going . Who s fault is that Higgs, dont want to deal with Sisu ? If Sisu are so hard done too why dont they say okay , We will build our own stadium and academy , OH THEY HAVE , but never delivered have they ! Sisu are full of spin.

 

[Nick]

I must say Nick you are good at keeping the debate going . Who s fault is that Higgs, dont want to deal with Sisu ? If Sisu are so hard done too why dont they say okay , We will build our own stadium and academy , OH THEY HAVE , but never delivered have they ! Sisu are full of spin.

Higgs don't have to work with CCFC. There is no right for us to be there if they don't want us there.

I'd much prefer they just said it, instead they are making out they are helpful and people are lapping it up.

They are dealing with CCFC and the CCFC academy.

Again, your reply had nothing to do with the actual comment you quoted. You are very good at random rants though.

 

[skybluetony176]

Probably, but you would think things being documented would only help..

What does it matter though? Our council doesn't keep minutes on meetings of big decisions and it is fine. CSF could have drawn a spunking cock and faxed it over and people would have been made for it because it "showed" sisu.

Spunking cock analogy. Always a sign of when someone is scraping the bottom of the excuse barrel.

 

[Nick]

Spunking cock analogy. Always a sign of when someone is scraping the bottom of the excuse barrel.

I must admit, I have never seen it used in an anology to be able to rate it or see it as a sign. I thought I was breaking into new territory but obviously not.

 

[skybluetony176]

So they are going to put in planning for something that is already built, on somewhere they can't be for more than 7 years at a time?

If the pool is going where the indoor pitch is the pitch needs moving. A planning application would be a good starting point for that. The seven year thing can be removed just as it was added. Problem is that that would mean our owners would have to rebuild some bridges, form an agreement / partnership and stump up some cash. None of which they seem that interested in doing for whatever reason. Not because it's in the best interests of the club that's for certain.