Formal Planning Objection from CCFC (2 Viewers)

[Nick]

The buck stops with the owners, yes. Just like every business on the planet.

You've got shitty relations with your suppliers? Fix them or get new suppliers.

Try going in front of shareholders at any firm and saying "They were all being mean to me!". Even if you don't blame Sisu for our current predicament (and you'd have to be a raving loon not to), it's still their job to fix it.

As I say to my kids: it's not your fault, but it is your problem.

Yes getting new suppliers is easy enough for a business to do. Find somebody else to buy pens or pencils off etc.

However, finding a new football stadium isn't too easy is it? Then what happened when the council heard there was interest in the butts?

With all the will in the world, CCFC are screwed arent they? They aren't going to be able to build a stadium within Coventry... That is the difference between just finding a new supplier.

 

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[SkyBlueZack]

No he didn't, this is what he said...

I wasn't quoting OSB58. Someone else was. Suggest you go back and have a look.

 

[Captain Dart]

It keeps coming back to only CCFC can be responsible for damage caused to CCFC.

It really isn't the case is it? Still...

Are the owners of Cov Bees at fault for the mess with Brandon Stadium? Or is it councils etc?

Its a pity your short term memory is so poor, I think the distinction between responsibility for an organisation and the situation the organisation finds itself in has already been pointed out by OSB.

Read back and do try to understand what he said.

 

[Captain Dart]

I wasn't quoting OSB58. Someone else was. Suggest you go back and have a look.

I'm not interested in your attacks on 'other posters' I'm simply justifying my own statements.

 

[SkyBlueZack]

Attacks on other posters? Who have I attacked?

 

[stupot07]

It keeps coming back to only CCFC can be responsible for damage caused to CCFC.

It really isn't the case is it? Still...

Are the owners of Cov Bees at fault for the mess with Brandon Stadium? Or is it councils etc?

Sisu, ccfcs former owners, CCC, higgs, acl, wasps, CSF, between them all they've managed to fuck this club over.

Some of them have loaded the gun, some of them have aimed at our head and some of them a pulling the trigger.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

 

[Nick]

Its a pity your short term memory is so poor, I think the distinction between responsibility for an organisation and the situation the organisation finds itself in has already been pointed out by OSB.

Read back and do try to understand what he said.

Ah loving the sarcasm!

So aren't Cov Bees directors responsible for the mess they find themselves in with the stadium? I have only seen limited media coverage but from what I can see not many people are annoyed at them?

 

[Rusty Trombone]

Not if Richardson is right and he brokered the deal? Let's be honest the council are pretty useless. How many empty shops are in the city centre? How much money is wasted by the council on things the City doesn't need. I don't think the council are any more competent at running the City as SISU are at running our club.

He can say he brokered whatever he wants (no evidence to say he did or didn't) but as the Council received the money they must have owned the land. The rest of the reply may have some merit.

 

[Captain Dart]

Yes getting new suppliers is easy enough for a business to do. Find somebody else to buy pens or pencils off etc.

However, finding a new football stadium isn't too easy is it? Then what happened when the council heard there was interest in the butts?

With all the will in the world, CCFC are screwed arent they? They aren't going to be able to build a stadium within Coventry... That is the difference between just finding a new supplier.

CCFC are not there for the purpose of consuming stationary, they are there to stage competitive & entertaining professional football in a suitable venue. Use of a stadium and possession of an adequate player training, development and recruitment infrastructure are mission critical. You failed your basic analogy training.

 

[shmmeee]

Yes getting new suppliers is easy enough for a business to do. Find somebody else to buy pens or pencils off etc.

However, finding a new football stadium isn't too easy is it? Then what happened when the council heard there was interest in the butts?

With all the will in the world, CCFC are screwed arent they? They aren't going to be able to build a stadium within Coventry... That is the difference between just finding a new supplier.

Well that's probably a good reason to be extra careful not to piss off your sole supplier.

I honestly don't know if we've got the means to build a new stadium or training facility or academy, I'm not privy to Sisu's finances or plans for City. But if we don't, it's incredibly stupid to run around telling everyone you are. It's completely moronic to liquidate the club and lose the right to half of the only stadium on offer.

And what did happen when the council heard of interest in the Butts? I must have missed it. All I can find on Google is the guy who owns the lease saying Sisu have refused to come in for peace talks so it looks "remote".

But again, even if the council are somehow the shadowy hand behind any frustrated attempts to build in Cov, and even if you take at face value the ridiculous assertion that Sisu hold no blame for the current state of their relationship, there's sites outside of Cov.

My position since the rent strike has been that if The Ricoh is unsustainable, then fine, let's go build a new ground. But let's be honest, Sisu have done everything but. Constant "resets", stories of "nearly there" only for nothing to materialise, the stadium forum, etc. etc. etc. Literally, what is stopping Sisu from buying some land and putting planning in? If it was shot down then we have something to go on other than Les Reid's tinfoil hat.

If the Ricoh is unsutainable and there is no where we can build, then we need to say that and work out where we go from here. Not play Let's Pretend: Build A Stadium for three fucking years.

 

[Ian1779]

Well that's probably a good reason to be extra careful not to piss off your sole supplier.

I honestly don't know if we've got the means to build a new stadium or training facility or academy, I'm not privy to Sisu's finances or plans for City. But if we don't, it's incredibly stupid to run around telling everyone you are. It's completely moronic to liquidate the club and lose the right to half of the only stadium on offer.

And what did happen when the council heard of interest in the Butts? I must have missed it. All I can find on Google is the guy who owns the lease saying Sisu have refused to come in for peace talks so it looks "remote".

But again, even if the council are somehow the shadowy hand behind any frustrated attempts to build in Cov, and even if you take at face value the ridiculous assertion that Sisu hold no blame for the current state of their relationship, there's sites outside of Cov.

My position since the rent strike has been that if The Ricoh is unsustainable, then fine, let's go build a new ground. But let's be honest, Sisu have done everything but. Constant "resets", stories of "nearly there" only for nothing to materialise, the stadium forum, etc. etc. etc. Literally, what is stopping Sisu from buying some land and putting planning in?

If the Ricoh is unsutainable and there is no where we can build, then we need to say that and work out where we go from here. Not play Let's Pretend: Build A Stadium for three fucking years.

I can't recall the exact details but I believe that CCC were looking at ways to block any potential collaboration between CRFC and CCFC.

 

[Grendel]

Not when they are trying to hinder the club at every opportunity because they don't like our owners. There is a lot of fans that don't like the owners but still buy ST's.

I don't like saying it but if you go Birmingham City centre you don't see many empty shops and there always seems to be a development of some sort. Different budgets admittedly.

Most shopping centres are thriving and seeing huge upturns in footfall.

 

[hutch1972]

Gifted? It would still be a gasworks without the club. Tesco paid for the build effectively. This whole the council are saviours is tiresome. After the mortgage was paid, the club would still be paying £1.3 million a year (without the mess we've had). Where would that £1.3 million go once the mortgage was paid? Let's not forget any profit was put back into ACL. So the club being overcharged kept the mortgage paid and paid for any improvements. Yet we were being quoted unfair prices. When we say woah hang on a minute and kick up a fuss, the council sell to a London rugby club an asset that wouldn't be in existence without our football club. That is grossly unfair, immoral and scandalous. I said before the council are vermin.

CCC had for donkeys years tried to sell the area without success , no one at ccc had the tiniest thought about a stadium or shopping mall. Without this football club it would still be a contaminated shit hole.
What makes me feel really bad though is the thought that for just 20 mill the council have ended up owning all the bricks and mortar for the entire ground.
As far as im concerned the council are fucking tyrants , that includes all parties not just the evil one who was ousted a while back.

 

[Rusty Trombone]

About right? RT claims they put in 400k and you say about right. Then go on to say the Higgs bought the share for a similar amount the club put in. Now we know that Higgs paid 5.5 million. So which is it Captain?

Apologies Zack, go with the Captain and his link, my memory failed me. I'll leave the post as it is, otherwise your argument won't make any sense.

 

[Rusty Trombone]

Slightly back on topic, there was a poster a while ago who seemed perfectly legit who said Wasps had bought the Severn Trent land adjoining Higgs, any ideas what that's all about in view of this planning application?

 

[Nick]

Well that's probably a good reason to be extra careful not to piss off your sole supplier.

I honestly don't know if we've got the means to build a new stadium or training facility or academy, I'm not privy to Sisu's finances or plans for City. But if we don't, it's incredibly stupid to run around telling everyone you are. It's completely moronic to liquidate the club and lose the right to half of the only stadium on offer.

And what did happen when the council heard of interest in the Butts? I must have missed it. All I can find on Google is the guy who owns the lease saying Sisu have refused to come in for peace talks so it looks "remote".

But again, even if the council are somehow the shadowy hand behind any frustrated attempts to build in Cov, and even if you take at face value the ridiculous assertion that Sisu hold no blame for the current state of their relationship, there's sites outside of Cov.

My position since the rent strike has been that if The Ricoh is unsustainable, then fine, let's go build a new ground. But let's be honest, Sisu have done everything but. Constant "resets", stories of "nearly there" only for nothing to materialise, the stadium forum, etc. etc. etc. Literally, what is stopping Sisu from buying some land and putting planning in? If it was shot down then we have something to go on other than Les Reid's tinfoil hat.

If the Ricoh is unsutainable and there is no where we can build, then we need to say that and work out where we go from here. Not play Let's Pretend: Build A Stadium for three fucking years.

No I agree. Even if they did have the means to build a new stadium in Coventry (I don't think they do) it isn't going to happen is it anyway?

When word of the Butts came out, the council sent a letter to CRFC about a restriction that would prevent professional football being played there. When questioned they said it was a "fishing exercise" to try and find out what CCFC were doing.

I'd love a new ground and academy. I haven't really got my hopes up and although it is pretty much the only option we have if Wasps don't want us at the Ricoh or us at the Higgs... Of course there is also the option of sites outside of Coventry but how are they going to go down?

 

[Captain Dart]

Slightly back on topic, there was a poster a while ago who seemed perfectly legit who said Wasps had bought the Severn Trent land adjoining Higgs, any ideas what that's all about in view of this planning application?

I suspect that may have been one of the 17 sites said to have been under consideration & rejected.
http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/wasps-rfc-talks-severn-trent-10576047
Of course if CCFC had any money it could build... meh, forget it.

Spoiler: 17 sites

Quote in...
http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/were-delighted-choice-wasps-chief-11417729
This was the end of quite a long search process. We actually looked at 17 different sites, not only in Coventry itself but across Warwickshire and in some of the areas close to Coventry.

 

[Nick]

CCFC are not there for the purpose of consuming stationary, they are there to stage competitive & entertaining professional football in a suitable venue. Use of a stadium and possession of an adequate player training, development and recruitment infrastructure are mission critical. You failed your basic analogy training.

Yes, they are mission critical. So the people who own them can cause major issues can't they? Especially as there are no other options. It was the point I was making, it isn't as if they can just find another supplier so whoever owns the stadium / academy etc has control over the club. To say it is just down to the directors and nobody else can damage the club is wrong.

It isn't far off Cov Bees is it? Isn't it that the owner of the stadium wants to do something else with it? Using the directors are at fault, the blame should be on Cov Bees if they are in trouble shouldn't it? Not the people who want to flatten it or whatever they are doing.

 

[Nick]

Slightly back on topic, there was a poster a while ago who seemed perfectly legit who said Wasps had bought the Severn Trent land adjoining Higgs, any ideas what that's all about in view of this planning application?

He seemed adament it was sold. He also said they had been given a box at Wasps as a sweetener that staff were using I think.

I know somebody who works at ST who has also said they had been told it had been sold to Wasps.

 

[Grendel]

I suspect that may have been one of the 17 sites said to have been under consideration & rejected.
http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/wasps-rfc-talks-severn-trent-10576047
Of course if CCFC had any money it could build... meh, forget it.

17 sites lol - Higgs said 17 times.

 

[Brylowes]

I can only think of three things that SISU have said they will do
and carried it through no matter the consequences.

1, Batter people in court, even when it becomes obvious to everyone else
that they can't, they show strength and carry on.

2, Move to Northampton, even though everyone warned them of the catastrophic
implications this would bring about for the club it's support and of course them.
But they displayed a dogged unwavering nerve, and carried it through.

3, stop funding the club, even when faced with relegations and plunging attendances
Again they resist the temptation to change tack, instead of trying to halt the slide
They just let it happen.

All negative,

It really is a crying shame that they don't put as much effort into actions that could
actually be of some benefit to the club they're supposed to be looking out for.

 

[Nick]

3, stop funding the club, even when faced with relegations and plunging attendances
Again they resist the temptation to change tack, instead of trying to halt the slide
They just let it happen.

/QUOTE]

The first 2 yes, the 3rd one haven't in the last year they gone on more about the self sufficiency? We didn't face relegation last year.

I am not sure of the major issue with that, other clubs will be in the same position won't they?

 

[Bruce the Boot]

And there you have it don, hook line and sinker.

Wasps and csf come out with our fans saying how reasonable they are.

There's a reason they won't put anything in writing.

Why do Sisu want it in writing ? another court case ?

 

[Nick]

Why do Sisu want it in writing ? another court case ?

What would they be going to court about? It would be safer for CSF to do everything in writing wouldn't it so everything is documented and there in black and white?

 

[dongonzalos]

You don't have to defend anything do you? You are currently defending a random rugby club !

People aren't looking at the bigger picture, Armybike was trying to tell me I was paranoid the other day because I said there was obviously more to it.... Then more news came out.

Why does nobody even wonder why CSF wouldn't put anything down on paper? Why does nobody wonder about the fact CSF were working with Wasps to help move them here?

Am I defending a random rugby club
Or criticising the actions of our owners, whose actions I feel are hurting our football club.
It just so happens due to their past actions that I criticised, a random rugby club are now involved in proceedings.

 

[Ian1779]

Why do Sisu want it in writing ? another court case ?

Probably to confirm what a lot of us fear. That we can't stay if Wasps are there.

Other than lodging an objection which they've done.

 

[Nick]

Am I defending a random rugby club
Or criticising the actions of our owners, whose actions I feel are hurting our football club.
It just so happens due to their past actions that I criticised, a random rugby club are now involved in proceedings.

Well yes, when you are saying they are doing nothing wrong and trying to help* (along those lines, further back in the thread) it is defending them isn't it?

 

[Bruce the Boot]

What would they be going to court about? It would be safer for CSF to do everything in writing wouldn't it so everything is documented and there in black and white?

Sisu cant be trusted. The End! They ve made their bed , so they have to LIE in it .

 

[Nick]

Sisu cant be trusted. The End! They ve made their bed , so they have to LIE in it .

That doesn't answer the question though?

You are going along with the trend of making a statement, getting asked about it, then just having a random rant without much substance behind it.

What would they take them to court about if they got it in writing?

 

[dongonzalos]

His quote doesn't say he wouldn't meet them until they confirm the conditions would be met does it? It says he was asking about pitches, changes and office space after the "contract".

It reads that he is trying to confirm what's to be had once the contract has run out doesn't it?

It does
He says I won't meet you unless you write to me first

 

[Bruce the Boot]

As usual , reverse psychology from you . My point was ,Sisu want things in writing "to see " if there is anything they can make a court case out of.

 

[Nick]

It does
He says I won't meet you unless you write to me first

He has already written to them and been ignored... It isn't them writing to him first....

 

[Nick]

As usual , reverse psychology from you . My point was ,Sisu want things in writing "to see " if there is anything they can make a court case out of.

As usual, reverse psychology? How? I was asking a question about what you posted and why you thought it. I am not too sure on the logic of making a statement and when asked a question about it, just throwing out a random rant?

Wouldnt CSF be better off doing everything in writing though, to cover their arses? Usually when people would be worried about confusion and things everything is in writing to prevent issues like that.

 

[Bruce the Boot]

As usual, reverse psychology? How? I was asking a question about what you posted and why you thought it. I am not too sure on the logic of making a statement and when asked a question about it, just throwing out a random rant?

Wouldnt CSF be better off doing everything in writing though, to cover their arses? Usually when people would be worried about confusion and things everything is in writing to prevent issues like that.

Because your a wind up merchant ! You just dont get it do you , NOBODY wants to deal with Sisu .

 

[Nick]

Because your a wind up merchant ! You just dont get it do you , NOBODY wants to deal with Sisu .

How is it trying to wind you up by asking you a question about a statement you made?

When asked, you just keep saying random unrelated stuff and calling me a wind up merchant?

All I asked is what you think they could take them to court about, and would it be better to do it in writing to protect from legal action like most do?

It is quite a common approach.

Person: SISU are taking all of the money from CCFC
Person B: Which money has been taken?
Person: SISU have been ruining this club for 8 years. 8 years now

It is like a call centre when you ask them what the weather is like and they want to stay on script.