Latest CCFC letter on planning application - Planning Meeting (33 Viewers)

[theferret]

CCFC will not die - if the worst comes to the worst the name of the Club is the only asset...they will sell it. BUT I have said ever since they bought the Ricoh that they will also buy CCFC because it makes so much more sense...2 Clubs in one stadium...doubles the usage roughly. They get more return for their investment - & there is definitely as much money for them in a half decent Championship club than a Premiership Rugby Club.

...onwards & upwards PUSB

I have read many half-baked theories on these forums over the years, I've probably written one or two myself, but the idea that Wasps will buy CCFC is up there with the best of them. About as believable as David Icke's shape shifting lizard theory.

 

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[Nick]

Firstly the Higgs Charity is stopping SISU. So buying land is out of the question.
http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/charitys-legal-clause-kills-coventry-11449119

Secondly there is an issue about further reductions in pitch availability to the public, though I'm wondering now why that wasn't put forward as an objection to Wasps plans by CCFC? Aren't they taking some pitch time?


This was the CCFC statement, made on Jun 7th, shortly after Wasps submitted their plans.
http://www.ccfc.co.uk/news/article/alan-higgs-centre-statement-3137431.aspx
They say "To contribute to Coventry becoming a City of Sport,....To help fast track this initiative symbolically and practically, we also are prepared to move all football operations, including our 1st team training base to the Higgs Centre and therefore into the city of Coventry."

They have also still got a statement on their web site about an integrated stadium and academy.
http://www.ccfc.co.uk/news/article/the-way-forward-coventry-city-020115-2177171.aspx

and they've also recently indicated a desire to move the team to the Butts and talked to CRC about that.
http://www.ccfc.co.uk/news/article/club-statement-butts-park-arena-ground-3117777.aspx

I think you'll find there is a statement to suit every possible option, but no actual action.

Yes, they said on the 7th about first team to show long term.

9th rules it out

Where does that 5 point plan mention an integrated stadium and academy? It says integrated football model / Having a progressive fully-integrated first team-Academy model. Isn't this the one that CSF keep referring to?

It does say this about a stadium though:

That said, for the long term, it remains the club’s ambition to own its own stadium. Financial Fair Play dictates that this is the only pathway to achieve the long term aims above.

Also this:

The vision incorporates a first team-Academy training facility – a facility that is designed and built to facilitate and future proof a Category One status. Having the first team and Academy working on the same site inspires.

That doesn't say away from the higgs, they were building or doing anything. IT wasn't exactly the written notice people keep making out. I am sure they worded it as a "vision" on purpose...

Yep, The council were quick to try and throw the spanner in at the butts werent they?

 

[chiefdave]

So, to summarise, it was all a stitch-up. The academy is doomed, and yet all some people seem concerned about is finding reasons (sometimes desperately so) to justify the stitch-up.

I won't go as far to say that some people wanted today's outcome, but it's hard not to make that judgement given some of the anti-CCFC bile being spouted on here. Bittter, hyperbolic bullshit aimed in completely the wrong direction.

That's about it. I would go as far as to say some wanted todays outcome. There's people on twitter who claim to be supporters celebrating the fact that Wasps, Higgs, CSF and the council have got one over on SISU.

 

[skybluetony176]

How do I know? Because you were saying earlier he shouldn't have gone. I'd put a weeks wages on you being annoyed if nobody from CCFC turned up.

The general consensus was "they should send somebody, but it wont make a bit of difference" on the thread yesterday... Not 1 person said they should send the expert did they? It is amazing to say it after it happened though.

Either way, whatever they did, whatever they said wouldn't have made a difference and people would have been angry. It is the blind hatred that people seem to have, it is embarrassing really.

It is amazing that you are saying I am defending something (which Im not) where the outcome was written and printed before it even happened...

That is the issue we have here, people can't see what is going on. You are too busy finding a way to be angry at whatever the club do, whether he goes, whether he doesn't, whether he says x, whether he says y. In the meantime, the fact that outcome was already decided gets ignored and becomes irrelevant...

Jan comes on and says "it isnt about statements people have made", of course it is. Call them all out on all of the statements, if Breed is throwing bullshit around then call him out on it too rather than hanging off his every word. If he proves CA and the club were saying recently they wanted to move then go ape shit at the club.

Look at the attention your Boycott Wasps thread got, it isn't a co-incidence people were falling over themselves to sign up and post on it and ruin it Well, until they put out the generic "door is open" statement for people to mental over.

I actually questioned why he bothered going given what he had to say. Not nearly the same thing.

Of course I'd have been annoyed if no one from the club turned up having been invited. Wouldn't you have been?

What I wasn't expecting given the valid points in the second letter (which I commended them for if you care to look) was to waste this one of opportunity with something so irrelevant to the process.

They knew what was relevant and what wasn't, they employed an expert to tell them and indeed used some of this relevant information in the second letter. If they were unsure what was relevant and what wasn't five minutes on a government website would point them in the right direction.

Are we really to believe that they didn't understand what was relevant and what wasn't when not only did they pay someone to tell them you can find out for yourself on line. Is your excuse for them that they're incompetent and can't listen to the expert advice that they've paid for and/or can't use a computer.

Like I pointed out, TF might as well talked about the weather and sorry (don't know why I'm apologising) but when it comes to something that should be as important as the academy to the club his effort didn't even meet the bare minimum and that's all it had to be. Just be relevant to the process. Is that really to much to ask?

 

[chiefdave]

They aren't doing it to SISU, they are doing it to CCFC....

If CCFC dies, SISU just stroll away back to London and carry on.

This is such a simple point yet seems hard for so many to grasp. If CCFC ceased to exist tomorrow SISU wouldn't give it a second thought. Yet we'd be left with no club.

 

[Nick]

That's about it. I would go as far as to say some wanted todays outcome. There's people on twitter who claim to be supporters celebrating the fact that Wasps, Higgs, CSF and the council have got one over on SISU.

It's embarrassing!

 

[chiefdave]

And there lies the problem.
We are a divided group to much in fighting some blame everyone else some defend everything the club do yet say we don't believe them.
The club have us exactly where they want us Divided.

This thread shows you everything you need to know. We've had our stadium taken from us, we've had our academy taken off us yet people are tying themselves in knots trying to justify the actions of those that have caused huge harm to our club.

Been saying for a while that as much damage as SISU, and those who came before them, have caused the day the council agreed to sell to Wasps will be looked back on as the darkest day in our history. An action that will cause issues for the club for decades, or centuries to come. That's if those actions leave the club able to survive at all.

 

[Nick]

I actually questioned why he bothered going given what he had to say. Not nearly the same thing.

Of course I'd have been annoyed if no one from the club turned up having been invited. Wouldn't you have been?

What I wasn't expecting given the valid points in the second letter (which I commended them for if you care to look) was to waste this one of opportunity with something so irrelevant to the process.

They knew what was relevant and what wasn't, they employed an expert to tell them and indeed used some of this relevant information in the second letter. If they were unsure what was relevant and what wasn't five minutes on a government website would point them in the right direction.

Are we really to believe that they didn't understand what was relevant and what wasn't when not only did they pay someone to tell them you can find out for yourself on line. Is your excuse for them that they're incompetent and can't listen to the expert advice that they've paid for and/or can't use a computer.

Like I pointed out, TF might as well talked about the weather and sorry (don't know why I'm apologising) but when it comes to something that should be as important as the academy to the club his effort didn't even meet the bare minimum and that's all it had to be. Just be relevant to the process. Is that really to much to ask?

Yet you still don't acknowledge the outcome was already decided?

I also doubt you would be ranting about this if MV went...

Are you really not understanding that he could have talked about the weather, he could have bared his arse and said "come at me bro" but the fact is it made no difference? Why aren't you annoyed at the fact it was already decided and why? Not even annoyed, wrong word as we already knew.

 

[Captain Dart]

FYI CWR program from this afternoon, academy stuff starts about 1hr into program.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p041dzjp#play
Fisher is on at 1hr 13min

 

[skybluetony176]

I would guess he was sent as it was his name on the letter so it was assuming it was him who had been dealing with the planners.

I said yesterday to send MV, as he has no history and is all football but it wouldn't make any difference at all.

That is not me defending, just saying probably why they sent him....

Funny his name was on the letter yet he seems to have no inclination as to what is and isn't relevant in a planning dispute. Do you think he actually read the letter himself?

 

[Nick]

Funny his name was on the letter yet he seems to have no inclination as to what is and isn't relevant in a planning dispute. Do you think he actually read the letter himself?

Amazing how you can tell all that by three minutes.

It's hilarious seeing our fans reactions...

 

[theferret]

Funny his name was on the letter yet he seems to have no inclination as to what is and isn't relevant in a planning dispute. Do you think he actually read the letter himself?

And there we have it. A prime example. Amazing how much time and effort people spend analysing the minutiae of statements, emails and off-the-cuff comments in an attempt the justify the actions of those conspiring against us.

Here's an idea, spend that time lobbying those people who are conducting this spiteful campaign against CCFC (in order to satisfy their thirst for SISU blood), and perhaps the united front would actually make them think twice.

Truth is, the council can act with impunity, because whatever they do they'll be a flock of sheep willing to fight their corner for them.

If I didn't care so much about this club I'd have given up long ago. Today was one more nail in the coffin. We're fucked, and by that I mean CCFC. SISU are fine.

 

[skybluetony176]

Yet you still don't acknowledge the outcome was already decided?

I also doubt you would be ranting about this if MV went...

Are you really not understanding that he could have talked about the weather, he could have bared his arse and said "come at me bro" but the fact is it made no difference? Why aren't you annoyed at the fact it was already decided and why? Not even annoyed, wrong word as we already knew.

It's not about who went it's about what was said. When will you get that through your thick head.

I don't doubt that the outcome was assured. What I don't accept is the club having an opportunity to make a relevant point on the record and not take it. What was said helps no one including SISU if they go ahead with another JR. Is a letter received after a deadline even going to be considered as evidence? Or even a follow up letter that's even later? Ironically the later is the one with the relevant information. TF's three minutes though I would think almost certainly would be as it would be recorded in an official meeting. Did we take this opportunity to outline the details that effect the decision making in the eye's of the law? No. So if it was a stitch up we've just threaded the needle for them.

 

[stupot07]

CCFC will not die - if the worst comes to the worst the name of the Club is the only asset...they will sell it. BUT I have said ever since they bought the Ricoh that they will also buy CCFC because it makes so much more sense...2 Clubs in one stadium...doubles the usage roughly. They get more return for their investment - & there is definitely as much money for them in a half decent Championship club than a Premiership Rugby Club.

...onwards & upwards PUSB

They won't buy the football club, they don't have the funds to run it on top of paying back the £35m bonds and £2.5m pa interest and funding wasps become the biggest club in Europe.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

 

[Captain Dart]

Yes, they said on the 7th about first team to show long term.

9th rules it out

Where does that 5 point plan mention an integrated stadium and academy? It says integrated football model / Having a progressive fully-integrated first team-Academy model. Isn't this the one that CSF keep referring to?

It does say this about a stadium though:



Also this:



That doesn't say away from the higgs, they were building or doing anything. IT wasn't exactly the written notice people keep making out. I am sure they worded it as a "vision" on purpose...

Yep, The council were quick to try and throw the spanner in at the butts werent they?

You are right the 5 point plan doesn't specifically say that, I got it from Fishers statement here, that was Dec 2013
http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/buying-land-new-coventry-city-6404266
.. which only reinforces my point that the club keep saying different things as it suits them, they have no strategy, it is all bluster fitted to the prevailing circumstances. The continual bullshit is a large part of why I can't trust them an inch.

 

[Nick]

It's not about who went it's about what was said. When will you get that through your thick head.

I don't doubt that the outcome was assured. What I don't accept is the club having an opportunity to make a relevant point on the record and not take it. What was said helps no one including SISU if they go ahead with another JR. Is a letter received after a deadline even going to be considered as evidence? Or even a follow up letter that's even later? Ironically the later is the one with the relevant information. TF's three minutes though I would think almost certainly would be as it would be recorded in an official meeting. Did we take this opportunity to outline the details that effect the decision making in the eye's of the law? No. So if it was a stitch up we've just threaded the needle for them.

Thick?

Have a word Tony, whoever went and whatever they said you would have had issue with.

You are more angry at the apparent threading the needle of the stitch up than the actual stitch up.

It's embarrassing. It can't be anything else than blind hate.

 

[skybluetony176]

And there we have it. A prime example. Amazing how much time and effort people spend analysing the minutiae of statements, emails and off-the-cuff comments in an attempt the justify the actions of those conspiring against us.

Here's an idea, spend that time lobbying those people who are conducting this spiteful campaign against CCFC (in order to satisfy their thirst for SISU blood), and perhaps the united front would actually make them think twice.

Truth is, the council can act with impunity, because whatever they do they'll be a flock of sheep willing to fight their corner for them.

If I didn't care so much about this club I'd have given up long ago. Today was one more nail in the coffin. We're fucked, and by that I mean CCFC. SISU are fine.

I'm not justifying those conspiring against us. I'm questioning why we're not using the small opportunities we do have to make a relevant stand against those conspiring against us. If you can't see that we really have lost.

Others may be conspiring against us but the people who are supposed to be fighting for us aren't doing that by missing opportunities such as today. It may have been a small opportunity but it was still an opportunity none the less.

Pointing out the failings of TF today is not defending anyone else. It's just pointing out the obvious. So obvious I'm surprised anyone has questioned me on it. Still Nick has to defend every little mistake that those at the top make so I really shouldn't be surprised.

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

Maton tweeting that there is no emotional argument for the academy to stay.

Maton is an idiot, one of the most vile human beings on the planet. He gets a kick out of winding up CCFC supporters which is pretty sad, nothing more than an internet troll dressed up in a suit.

 

[Grendel]

Thick?

Have a word Tony, whoever went and whatever they said you would have had issue with.

You are more angry at the apparent threading the needle of the stitch up than the actual stitch up.

It's embarrassing. It can't be anything else than blind hate.

I'm amazed Tony works in his little factory. He must do it from love I mean according to him ceo's are thick and incompetent, assistant ceo's are thick and incompetent - you are thick I am thick.

Amazed he has stayed where he had really,

Perhaps he's lining himself up for the big one when he goes to New Zealand.

 

[theferret]

I'm not justifying those conspiring against us. I'm questioning why we're not using the small opportunities we do have to make a relevant stand against those conspiring against us. If you can't see that we really have lost.

But it is all you have done, strained every sinew in your body to shift the focus away from the council/CSF/Wasps and direct it all toward SISU for their apparent inability to make the most of the 180 seconds of glory today in front of a committee who already had their decision ready. What is the value of that, short of it being an attempt to deflect blame?

It would be a bit like my chastising one of my kids for being bullied at school because they didn't do more to convince the bully not to kick them in the head.

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

As for it being approved, no surprise there. It was rigged from the beginning, just like everything has been in the last few years regarding Wasps.

Sad to say I called this from the moment we let the pests in Coventry that they would be handed the Higgs centre as well, don't know how the 'fans' who have welcomed them can look themselves in the mirror and think of themselves as a Coventry fan

 

[skybluetony176]

Thick?

Have a word Tony, whoever went and whatever they said you would have had issue with.

You are more angry at the apparent threading the needle of the stitch up than the actual stitch up.

It's embarrassing. It can't be anything else than blind hate.

Assumption. Look back at my first post on the thread about the second letter. I praise the detail of it and state that if the club go to the hearing with that in mind and not playing the victim they have a chance of some success. So no thicko I wouldn't have had an issue with whoever went or whatever was said. I even made a point of not saying oh no they've sent fisher when it came out he was sent today on this thread. Even then I was still hoping for the best based on the letter.

Take your head out of fishers arse for five minutes and see what he actually done (or didn't do) today.

 

[Grendel]

Assumption. Look back at my first post on the thread about the second letter. I praise the detail of it and state that if the club go to the hearing with that in mind and not playing the victim they have a chance of some success. So no thicko I wouldn't have had an issue with whoever went or whatever was said. I even made a point of not saying oh no they've sent fisher when it came out he was sent today on this thread. Even then I was still hoping for the best based on the letter.

Take your head out of fishers arse for five minutes and see what he actually done (or didn't do) today.

I think you need to extract your head from your own arse you idiot.

 

[Nick]

Assumption. Look back at my first post on the thread about the second letter. I praise the detail of it and state that if the club go to the hearing with that in mind and not playing the victim they have a chance of some success. So no thicko I wouldn't have had an issue with whoever went or whatever was said. I even made a point of not saying oh no they've sent fisher when it came out he was sent today on this thread. Even then I was still hoping for the best based on the letter.

Take your head out of fishers arse for five minutes and see what he actually done (or didn't do) today.

Jesus Christ, you really can't see it can you?

I've still not mentioned his speech or what he has said. You keep going on about others defending?

We may as well defend doping in sport and say it's because the runner up wasn't fast enough.

The outcome was decided before they went in there, can you really not see that?

Why do you persist in calling people thick? You are the one who got angry at wasps and then shut up when they put out their press release..

It's embarrassing, and no doubt people will be along to shout unrelated statements.

All this is doing is showing your blind hatred.. You carry on ranting.

 

[Moff]

Sisu had the same choice when they took over CCFC but decided to do it their way. The batter and stress way.

The start of this rot is set firmly with Sisu. People should not forget this when they proportion blame for our demise to the other parties.
They could have effectively owned the Ricoh for less than £15M and Wasps would never have been here.
Seems a bargain now when you take into account loss of revenue, cost of legal fees and now the loss of future incomes from the demise of the academy
Their continued bullying has made enemies and given local authorities, sports organisations and Wasps the reasoning they needed to take advantage of the situation.
The new stadium and academy bluff has come home to roost.

You do understand that its CCFC who are losing out, as you smugly congratulate Wasps.

SISU are useless tossers we all know that, but the simpering praise that some give Wasps as our football club goes down the pan makes me sick. Like someone said earlier this is CCFC we are talking about not SISU, if the club go bust SISU don't, but some on here will be more than happy just to get one over on SISU, missing the irony in that whole premise.

 

[Nick]

You do understand that its CCFC who are losing out, as you smugly congratulate Wasps.

SISU are useless tossers we all know that, but the simpering praise that some give Wasps as our football club goes down the pan makes me sick. Like someone said earlier this is CCFC we are talking about not SISU, if the club go bust SISU don't, but some on here will be more than happy just to get one over on SISU, missing the irony in that whole premise.

Exactly!

 

[skybluetony176]

But it is all you have done, strained every sinew in your body to shift the focus away from the council/CSF/Wasps and direct it all toward SISU for their apparent inability to make the most of the 180 seconds of glory today in front of a committee who already had their decision ready. What is the value of that, short of it being an attempt to deflect blame?

It would be a bit like my chastising one of my kids for being bullied at school because they didn't do more to convince the bully not to kick them in the head.

I made the mistake of pointing out the irrelevance of what TF said today and Nick promptly jumped on it. Admittedly I've now allowed myself to be dragged into a debate about something that really is undebatable .

SISU made a relevant argument in there second letter. Fact.

SISU knew what the relevant argument is. Fact.

Tim Fisher didn't even hint at the relevant argument today instead chose to talk about something irrelevant to the planning process until he was told his time was up. Fact

Why would anyone argue that point? Surely that's acceptable and obvious to anyone who read what TF said today? I've been questioned for pointing that out and I've answered those questions repeatedly with the same consistent point. The people who are questioning it on the other hand however are straining with every sinew in their body to defend this failing by chucking everything but the kitchen sink into the mix. I'd question them of I was you. It's pretty simple to accept that TF fucked up today because he clearly did. Nick for whatever reason seems to be struggling with accepting that and encouraging god knows how many pages to denying it.

On that note I'm out.

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

Frankly I'd be amazed if Coventry has a football league club in 10 years.

We have to enjoy the small wins whilst we can. Just hoping Mowbray can deliver a promotion so I can experience it before the clubs extinction is complete, time is running out though.

 

[skybluetony176]

I'm amazed Tony works in his little factory. He must do it from love I mean according to him ceo's are thick and incompetent, assistant ceo's are thick and incompetent - you are thick I am thick.

Amazed he has stayed where he had really,

Perhaps he's lining himself up for the big one when he goes to New Zealand.

You are thick. I've not said CEO's are thick or incompetent the fact that you can't see the consecutive failings of consecutive CEO's at the club only confirms that you are thick. Goodnight.

 

[Nick]

I made the mistake of pointing out the irrelevance of what TF said today and Nick promptly jumped on it. Admittedly I've now allowed myself to be dragged into a debate about something that really is undebatable .

SISU made a relevant argument in there second letter. Fact.

SISU knew what the relevant argument is. Fact.

Tim Fisher didn't even hint at the relevant argument today instead chose to talk about something irrelevant to the planning process until he was told his time was up. Fact

Why would anyone argue that point? Surely that's acceptable and obvious to anyone who read what TF said today? I've been questioned for pointing that out and I've answered those questions repeatedly with the same consistent point. The people who are questioning it on the other hand however are straining with every sinew in their body to defend this failing by chucking everything but the kitchen sink into the mix. I'd question them of I was you. It's pretty simple to accept that TF fucked up today because he clearly did. Nick for whatever reason seems to be struggling with accepting that and encouraging god knows how many pages to denying it.

On that note I'm out.

Nobody is defending anything but you.. anything that was said was irrelevant already because it was decided...

Is that blind hatred. You are angry at him fucking up something decided anyway?

It's a joke. Go and have a seat with tim07.

Shit like this is the reason ccc / higgs and wasps get away with things they do.

 

[fernandopartridge]

You are thick. I've not said CEO's are thick or incompetent the fact that you can't see the consecutive failings of consecutive CEO's at the club only confirms that you are thick. Goodnight.

There is no apostrophe necessary after CEO

 

[Grendel]

You are thick. I've not said CEO's are thick or incompetent the fact that you can't see the consecutive failings of consecutive CEO's at the club only confirms that you are thick. Goodnight.

Goodnight? Night shift starting.

 

[chiefdave]

Frankly I'd be amazed if Coventry has a football league club in 10 years.

Couldn't bring myself to give you a like for that statement but I'm increasingly inclined to agree with you.

What happens if Wasps continue to refuse to engage in talks to extend the Ricoh deal? Sure we can move away again but we know the financial implications of that and we'd have nowhere to return to.

Unless someone comes in and basically donates a huge amount of money to the club I can't see things improving.

 

[Nick]

Couldn't bring myself to give you a like for that statement but I'm increasingly inclined to agree with you.

What happens if Wasps continue to refuse to engage in talks to extend the Ricoh deal? Sure we can move away again but we know the financial implications of that and we'd have nowhere to return to.

Unless someone comes in and basically donates a huge amount of money to the club I can't see things improving.

My thought (not fact) would be it's another force sisu out situation, maybe a party down with wasps and ccc...

 

[rupert_bear]

Meanwhile it's on to the Ricoh factor now and will we still be there come season 18/19. Now that's a whole different ball game.